Thanks Single Coil and Dick Heath for the Tomorrow Never Knows recommendations.

I'd like to add one more and that would be Todd Rundgren's live version. This is from the days when he was playing in Bourgeois Tagg (spelling?)

They do the song justice!

Oh!!!!!!!!!

I hadn't even heard of Afaik,actually.Shows how much I now.

McCoy Tyner - My favourite things - sounds quite prog piano to me - but that was 1972

I'll agree that the Beatles had a great influence and that it started on "Rubber soul".

But there are also other names that need to be mentioned: Leonard Bernstein (1961), Burt Bacharach (1963) and Brian Wilson (1966). I did actually get a reaction on this in another forum that Gershwin was the first one but I only do know "Rhapsody in blue" played by Ekseption so I cannot judge that.

Because 1966 onwards has been covered to death in other threads on this forum - Revolver, Pet Sounds, Piper, Da Capo, In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida, S. F. Sorrow, 5 Bridges Suite and all the other great proto-prog/psychedelic albums have been named as contenders for earliest proto-prog album on several occasions.

I think the purpose of this particular thread is to explore further back than that - into the murky waters of jazz/folk/blues and all the other great elements of prog rock.

Prog rock proper started in 1970, AFAIK - with ITCOTCK, which is widely regarded as the first prog album.

Syd Barrett was one of the first to make prog. songs. Piper wasn't a prog. album but I would say atleast 2 or 3 songs on it are prog, Astronomy Domine/Intersteller Overdrive are deffinetly prog. songs and mabey, Bike, if the main part of that song isn't prog then the ending has to have some prog elements in it. Dozens of clocks ringing randomly/footsteps/Rubberducks quacking and then echoed.

I think these songs that are prog. show that LSD was an influence on Syd's writing ability, he was one of the most creative and "out there" writers of that time. Intersteller Overdrive really sounds like somone on LSD tripping out. We all know that Syd did alot of LSD and weather that was the cause to his removal of the band or not is debatable, but one this is sure, that LSD was a major influence on Syd's prog songs.
Even the pop songs on that album sound like they are written by someone crazy or on LSD, and he was both.

That is what I believe made atleast some of an impact on prog and the whole movement, drugs.

Walter Carlos.Album released 1968 - it was on a Moog,though.I didn't no that,actually,but just investigated it.

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&token=ADFEAEE47 81ADC4BAF7120D4932A48E9B561F101DB51ADD74C790453CEB0345B881F6 0E412F686D3F4A139E53BFCA77BE61608CCCBEC49FEDC6638718EE4A7603 23B4E166858&uid=MIW060507121510&sql=11:o4jeeat14xu7~ T1

Why pre-1965.Prog rock is said to have started in 1967,therefore why not pre-1967.

A better way of finding out the answer to your question is when/who made the transition from Psychedelic rock to Progressive rock.That is surely the most influencial pre-prog album.A genre cannot be based on one song or even an album.They or someone else must have continued the experiment for the genre(prog) to have developed further.It is generally excepted that Prog followed on from the imputious of Freakbeat(Pink Floyd
Piper At The Gates Of Dawn is a good example) also pop art rock (The Beatles
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band the best example) but also alongside Jazz (Hard Bop influence usually) or Classical to give an album fluidity which is needed to produce the necessary ingredients of Prog rock.

I do not,personally,regard either of the above true Prog albums,but are probably 2 of the more influential in the movement at the time.There are plenty of other lesser influences,numerous Hard Bop and even more classical influences because they had been around for longer.Psychedelia only started two years previously,remember - Psych sub-genre freakbeat only for several months before.

I believe that Keith Emerson was inspired early on (Pre-Nice) by a record called "Switched on Bach" which was Bach on a Hammond Organ.  I can't recall the artist performing it though.

Before ever getting near the Collins version, check out the storming version on  Phil Manzanera's 801 Live, and the two remarkable guitar versions of it  that bookend Come Together: A Beatles Tribute Volume 2 (NYC Records) by Wayne Krantz and David Fuiczynski.

Never heard Mr. Collins do that one. Brian Eno and Phil Manzanerra did this track on 801 Live... and they didn't have to change the song much for it to fit in with the other more prog tracks. Great example!

what Boo Boo said. That album is the most important album in rock history (but not the best) and many of the influences of prog rock are there

Abbey road's side 2 is also an influence with its 20 minute long epic song with a similar structure of supper's ready. Plus, abbey road is one of the best albums of all times and I consider it prog enough.

Originally posted by Certif1ed The Beatles weren't doing too much that was progressive before 1965

Agreed! In fact their experimental (thus progressive) gusto started with the Rubber Soul album.

I was thinking about If I needed someone and Wait, just to mention the most "strange".

Actually, it's with Revolver that they started experimenting on a larger scale

Well, I agree with boo boo's assertions about sgt. pepper, but both this and all other beatles records (whether you might accept them as prog or not) miss these things (probably among others): diverse structures brought together in one piece, shifts, unusual time signatures. No matter how experimental they got, beatles was still a pop group, that may be why they turned back to blues roots after '68. I was listening to beatles with great pleasure some 4-5 years ago, but as I got more involved in prog, their songs started to seem to me a bit cheesy and too straight. Hope you understand what I mean. Besides (under the light of Tangerine Dream being criticized for reverting to short songs -as in Exit-) Beatles never had a side-long suite, even if they did, this wouldn't make them prog... (still I'm not denying their influence on prog)

I would suggest another album by them, though... I believe magical mystery tour is more consistent, conseptual, and more "proggish" than anything they did. Sorry, I don't know about the rest of pre-'66 psychedelic bands! This may not be the greatest influence on prog, but it is still something!

Great selections! Here's a few more:

1. 1960 ~ Bernard Herrmann ~ Soundtrack for Hitchcock's Psycho. The way he used the starkness of the violins was very effective. Which leads us to....

2. 1966 ~ Beatles ~ Eleanor Rigby. George Martin has said that Herrmann's work was a big influence on this.

3. 1966 ~ Beatles ~ Tomorrow Never Knows from Revolver. Really a result of the Beatles, George Martin and the engineers playing the studio. Even Mr. Collins did his version on his first solo album Face Value.

4. 1967 ~ Beatles ~ Strawberry Fields Forever. IMO, a brilliant marriage of classical and rock elements.

Oh yeah, The Beatles' influence can NEVER be underplayed or unestimated- everything about them changed pop/ rock music forever; the high quality playing, the willingness to experiment- something only Buddy Holly had ever done with pop music before- the top notch production that utilised the then new fangled stereo system. Also, although I'm not the greatest fan of the song (or this sort of 'experimental' music in general), no mainstream pop act apart from The Beatles would have dared to put a track like 'Revolution No.9' on an album, which is willingly obscure and uneasy listening, on an album. 'The White Album' definitely showed an incredible ambition to have every genre under the sun on it- rock (Back In The USSR, Helter Skelter, Everybody's Got Something To Hide...', Why Don't We Do It In The Road), folk/balladeering (Julia, I Will, Dear Prudence) musichall (Martha My Dear, Wild Honey Pie), psychedelic weirdness (Piggies, Bungalow Bill, Happiness Is A Warm Gun), musique concrete (Revolution No.9), torch ballads (Good Night) and a lot more besides.

An album that Frank Zappa cited as a huge influence was Eric Dolphy's 'Out To Lunch', namechecking the album on the classic track 'Oh No' and the artist himself on the very Dolphy esque 'Eric Dolphy Memorial Barbecue'.

well, isn't exactly my opinion, I read that somewhere
but I like John Cage music and the planet's from Holst

IMO Holst and Cage influenced a lot of groups, for example king Crimson

SGT PEPPERS LONELY HEARTS CLUB BAND:

i cant believe it hasnt been mentioned yet, it took pyschadelic rock to a whole new level, here are some of its innovations and influences on prog.

1.one of the first concept albums...all albums up until this album were just a bunch of random songs with at least one or two songs that will be released as singles...this was the first big album to fit all the songs into a certain concept, which involved fictional characters played by the beatles.

2.it was innovative in the way it used disperate instruments, deverse styles and song structures.

3.songs like within you without you and a day in the life were much longer than most songs released on a album before them.

4.it introduced new guitar effects like echo, wah wah, fuzz box and phase.

5.innovative in the way songs were edited and spliced.

6.the unsual cover art made album cover art a new priority.

7.ringos jazz influenced drumming style and maccartneys decision to plug his bass into a amp instead of a microphone like all bassists did at the time were pretty influencial.

8.the lyrics and song themes were unusual and unconventional...fantasy ellements and phillosophy ellements which were not very typical of most rock albums.

9.the beatles unusual wordrobe influenced most progressive rock artists in the way they presented themselves.

10.it featured one of the first uses of moog and made keyboard more important in its songs.

11.early use of tape loop effects.

Keith Emerson and a number of organists in the late sixties were influenced by an album called the 'Zodiac Cosmic Sounds Of New York' (1966?).Don't have any more info than that though.

MR Heath asked for "Any suggestions?"

Be nice.

You mean to say there was a long longago,before Dream Theater?

But 1989 was year ZERO,so there could not be prog music before then.Therefore there couldnt be a Pre-prog time.....

You mean a time before Dream Time? Nah, you're having us on Heath!

In the spirit of resurrecting old threads, I think some more input on this thread is needed.

I'll add that some of the electronic and avant-garde composers, like Berio, Cage, Stockhausen and Varese were hugely influential;

Varese influenced Zappa, and Stockhausen taught Holgar Czukay and Irmin Schmidt from Can, for example.

I'm sure this has been done before but here goes. This comes from Sid Smith asking my opinion of albums released before the start of the prog period (say prior to 1965), that would or may have influenced the early progressive movement.

Dave Brubeck Quartet: "Time Out" - for "Blue Rondo Ala Turka"

Dave Brubeck Quartet: "Live At Carnegie Hall" (perhaps Volume 2 rather than Volume 1 if vinyl, or the complete 2002 remastered CD issued as late as 2002). Again for "Blue Rondo Ala Turka" - which with hindsight, this extended live version sounds as prog as a mainstream modern jazz group could go (1963), and the multi-time signature, Joe Morello's "Castillian Drums", which a number of aspiring drummers practiced along aside in the 60's - those guys also went to his drum clinics in London.

Shostakovitch's Cello Concerto No 1 (recommend the Rostapovitch and Bernstein version - which is available with the amazing 1st Piano on a Columbia Classics CD), said by Andrew Lloyd Webber to be the first rock concerto. Listen to the first movement and there is something in that statement.

other suggestions please.