Bump their music guys. Loud.

 

 

Maybe maybe not.

 

But Check Your Head was better anyway.

 

RIP MCA. Part of my adolescence has moved on.

 

 [TUBE]Z6xsKsJqVyg[/TUBE]

 

 

I'm glad.

 

Look, if you use words like 'clearly' in your answer to my question then I am not going to stay my usual happy bunny state of mind. 

Anyway Listened to it again I mean the bas line is like a Led Zep tune not the Drums.  Just in too much of a hurry to get this thread moving in one way or another

 

It sounds LIKE a LZ beat? 

 

Christ this thread!

 

 

*sound of tumble weed*

 

 

 

 

I've never seen so many  words in one post! 

 

 

 

Aghm !  *clears throat* 

 

That bit of the Beasties on the beach is classic is that another Led Zep drum beat going on? 

 

 

Anyone? 

 

Whistles

 

Hello?

 

How about that "It's the joint" sample on Shake Your Rump?

 

Rather well placed isnt it?

 

And then there's that really cool squelchy bass sound that sort of makes up the chorus of the song, I could listen to that all day.

 

I've never been able to quite figure out what exactly it is though.

 

*crickets*

 

I'll get me coat.

What!

 

 

I say, WHAT?!?!

 

 

One post, one response and we have got into a "a if I say it's night he'll say it's day thing"? Bullsnot. Then you reply to my repsonse with a " I stand by my definition of prog/pop and find your "prog is pop" stance to be utter nonsense" but fail to give an explanation so as to cut me off...  you and  the ground you walk on. Bet your  arse I'm disappointed.... in you. I don't want to discuss this because you are wrong! ... ???? How ing rude is that?!

 

 

 off.

 

Originally posted by Textbook    Anyway, my problem is not that people don't like rap. My problem is people judging it from a surface impression and that is what I have always said. For example, I don't like country music much. I don't consider myself close-minded though because I really did go back and listen seriously to a whole lot of classic/acclaimed country albums. Few of the people on PA who trash hip-hop seem to have done that with the hip-hop genre. If you have, fine, say so and I'll have no option but to shut up, but if you haven't it goes back to not taking people who judge music they haven't heard seriously.

]]> Mon, 16 Apr 2012 02:25:49 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4487494#4487494 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4487459#4487459 Author: sagichim
Subject: 86207
Posted: April 16 2012 at 01:13

This thread is becoming very exhausting.]]> Mon, 16 Apr 2012 01:13:31 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4487459#4487459 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4487435#4487435 Author: Textbook
Subject: 86207
Posted: April 15 2012 at 23:35

I think Dean and I have got into a if I say it's night he'll say it's day thing so we may as well call it a day. I stand by my definition of prog/pop and find your "prog is pop" stance to be utter nonsense, but explaining why will take time and us nowhere and I hardly think you'll be bitterly disappointed at my decision to let it drop ;)

 

Anyway, my problem is not that people don't like rap. My problem is people judging it from a surface impression and that is what I have always said. For example, I don't like country music much. I don't consider myself close-minded though because I really did go back and listen seriously to a whole lot of classic/acclaimed country albums. Few of the people on PA who trash hip-hop seem to have done that with the hip-hop genre. If you have, fine, say so and I'll have no option but to shut up, but if you haven't it goes back to not taking people who judge music they haven't heard seriously.

]]> Sun, 15 Apr 2012 23:35:15 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4487435#4487435 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4487215#4487215 Author: Dean
Subject: 86207
Posted: April 15 2012 at 16:45

Originally posted by Textbook I do believe prog and pop are opposites.   Pop: Appealing to an already extant idea of coolness/happiness in order to create something which will be immediately attractive to a consumer. It needs to be realtively simple in order to be successfully consumed through casual methods such as car radios and TV clips. Does not have to be totally iterative, but if it becomes too different from what is currently the norm, it is unlikely to be considered pop and be played in pop venues.   Prog: Creating something with no regard whatsoever for what the marketplace is interested in. Typically either aims for complexity and grandeur or alienation through the deliberate avoidance of norms. Both of these disqualify it from casual venues.   There you go, philosophical opposites.

Wrong. Or bullsnot. (either works for me). That view is snobbery of the worse kind - attributing lofty ideas and ideals to Prog that it isn't entitled to wear. You cannot actually determine the philosophy behind the creation of a piece of music just by listening to it, and even the words that come out of the artists mouth aren't entirely trustworthy in this respect either (that's were "pretentious" comes into play).

 

Whatever dark hole of introspective pretentiousness prog has painted itself, this is not where it began and, in spite of everything, it hasn't actually managed to climb atop the pedestal that has been created for it. Musically Prog is Pop regardless of the embelishments added to it.

 

Prog was created to make money (via fame if necessary, or vice versa) - no prog musician ever wanted to be a starving artist. Prog music (and musicians) just happened to arrive at a time when the music business was receptive to it and allowed it free reign - in the 70s Prog was the cash-cow, selling large numbers of albums instead of large numbers of singles was an unexpected windfall for the record industry and they were more than happy to indulge the golden goose (...don't worry, I've plenty of metaphors where they came from). The marketting and promotion of Prog was no different to the glitter-ball marketting of three minute pop, the stage spectacle and year-long world tour was to draw the crowds and sell the album, selling coolness/happiness to those who would buy it, even demin-clad lank-haired students living in bedsits pouring over the lyric sheet of Close To The Edge while rolling spliff on the album cover wanted to be cool and happy. And this still happens today, Roger Waters grossed $227,365,144 from the recent Wall Live tour.. Two hundred and twenty seven million three hundred and sixty five thousand one hundred and forty four dollars. Lady Gagag fell short of that total by more than $102million...

 

Prog is Pop.

 

 

Originally posted by Textbook    Snow Dog: I'm not a snob, I'm right. You guys who judge the entirety of hip-hop based on 8 seconds of a Fifty Cent song you hear from a passing humvee don't have a leg to stand on. You're like young kids who say they hate classical music when they've never heard any ;)

]]> Sun, 15 Apr 2012 16:45:29 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4487215#4487215 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4487107#4487107 Author: catfood03
Subject: 86207
Posted: April 15 2012 at 14:53

hunh?

]]> Sun, 15 Apr 2012 14:53:31 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4487107#4487107 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486978#4486978 Author: CPicard
Subject: 86207
Posted: April 15 2012 at 13:09

So, we're not discussing about the Beastie Boys anymore, that's it?]]> Sun, 15 Apr 2012 13:09:00 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486978#4486978 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486873#4486873 Author: sagichim
Subject: 86207
Posted: April 15 2012 at 11:42

Which is the best hardcore rapper ever ]]> Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:42:08 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486873#4486873 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486868#4486868 Author: catfood03
Subject: 86207
Posted: April 15 2012 at 11:32

Originally posted by sagichim That's not rap even by white people standards!

What are you talking about? That Rush rap is every bit as good as Vanilla Ice!
]]> Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:32:25 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486868#4486868 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486866#4486866 Author: sagichim
Subject: 86207
Posted: April 15 2012 at 11:30

That's not rap even by white people standards!]]> Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:30:29 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486866#4486866 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486861#4486861 Author: catfood03
Subject: 86207
Posted: April 15 2012 at 11:24

^
okay, I was joking around anyway. It is a blending of ProgPopRap then.]]> Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:24:03 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486861#4486861 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486856#4486856 Author: lucas
Subject: 86207
Posted: April 15 2012 at 11:11

^

at that time Rush were not playing prog anymore...so no, they didn't pioneer this. Maybe Mr Bungle did this before they released their first official album.]]> Sun, 15 Apr 2012 11:11:29 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486856#4486856 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486843#4486843 Author: catfood03
Subject: 86207
Posted: April 15 2012 at 10:55

I believe the blending of rap and prog had been pioneered by this obscure band from the early-90's... (forward to 3:12 minute mark)

[TUBE]Q8TlM5kRZX4[/TUBE]
]]> Sun, 15 Apr 2012 10:55:48 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486843#4486843 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486711#4486711 Author: lucas
Subject: 86207
Posted: April 15 2012 at 06:44

^

the only fact that the Beatles are in PA shows that prog is derivative of pop. ]]> Sun, 15 Apr 2012 06:44:18 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486711#4486711 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486708#4486708 Author: akamaisondufromage
Subject: 86207
Posted: April 15 2012 at 06:41

Originally posted by Textbook I do believe prog and pop are opposites.   Pop: Appealing to an already extant idea of coolness/happiness in order to create something which will be immediately attractive to a consumer. It needs to be realtively simple in order to be successfully consumed through casual methods such as car radios and TV clips. Does not have to be totally iterative, but if it becomes too different from what is currently the norm, it is unlikely to be considered pop and be played in pop venues.   Prog: Creating something with no regard whatsoever for what the marketplace is interested in. Typically either aims for complexity and grandeur or alienation through the deliberate avoidance of norms. Both of these disqualify it from casual venues.   There you go, philosophical opposites.   Snow Dog: I'm not a snob, I'm right. You guys who judge the entirety of hip-hop based on 8 seconds of a Fifty Cent song you hear from a passing humvee don't have a leg to stand on. You're like young kids who say they hate classical music when they've never heard any ;)

 

It is impossible to draw a line that says on one side Prog on the other Pop.  Where exactly do Yes, Genesis, Floyd etc become Pop?  A band like Crass is therefore a Prog band in your book? 

 

All pop music like Hiphop can be incorporated in Prog .  If you did how much Hiphop would make it a pop record.  How long would the record have to be before it was officially Prog? 

 

Prog came from Pop. They are not mutually exclusive.

]]> Sun, 15 Apr 2012 06:41:06 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486708#4486708 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486706#4486706 Author: lucas
Subject: 86207
Posted: April 15 2012 at 06:36

^

and what about some krautrap :

[tube]f3fRL5TZv4M[/tube]

]]> Sun, 15 Apr 2012 06:36:53 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486706#4486706 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486704#4486704 Author: lucas
Subject: 86207
Posted: April 15 2012 at 06:32

Originally posted by Textbook But hip-hop is somehow impossible to blend into prog.

 

This band is in PA :

[tube]SdJslTO48mA&feature=relmfu[/tube]

]]> Sun, 15 Apr 2012 06:32:21 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486704#4486704 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486700#4486700 Author: akamaisondufromage
Subject: 86207
Posted: April 15 2012 at 06:22

Originally posted by Snow Dog Pop is Prog's father. That's why he's called pop.

 

Couldn't have put it better.

]]> Sun, 15 Apr 2012 06:22:55 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486700#4486700 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486698#4486698 Author: Snow Dog
Subject: 86207
Posted: April 15 2012 at 06:19

Originally posted by Textbook     Snow Dog: I'm not a snob, I'm right. You guys who judge the entirety of hip-hop based on 8 seconds of a Fifty Cent song you hear from a passing humvee don't have a leg to stand on. You're like young kids who say they hate classical music when they've never heard any ;)

You Guys? Who are they? Did you not read my post defending the Beastie Boys here? Did I not say that I liked De la Soul? I have mentioned also that I like Eminem! Don't tar as all with your generilisations.

]]> Sun, 15 Apr 2012 06:19:35 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486698#4486698 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486696#4486696 Author: Textbook
Subject: 86207
Posted: April 15 2012 at 06:15

I do believe prog and pop are opposites.

 

Pop: Appealing to an already extant idea of coolness/happiness in order to create something which will be immediately attractive to a consumer. It needs to be realtively simple in order to be successfully consumed through casual methods such as car radios and TV clips. Does not have to be totally iterative, but if it becomes too different from what is currently the norm, it is unlikely to be considered pop and be played in pop venues.

 

Prog: Creating something with no regard whatsoever for what the marketplace is interested in. Typically either aims for complexity and grandeur or alienation through the deliberate avoidance of norms. Both of these disqualify it from casual venues.

 

There you go, philosophical opposites.

 

Snow Dog: I'm not a snob, I'm right. You guys who judge the entirety of hip-hop based on 8 seconds of a Fifty Cent song you hear from a passing humvee don't have a leg to stand on. You're like young kids who say they hate classical music when they've never heard any ;)

]]> Sun, 15 Apr 2012 06:15:32 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486696#4486696 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486691#4486691 Author: Snow Dog
Subject: 86207
Posted: April 15 2012 at 06:05

^No that's mummy.]]> Sun, 15 Apr 2012 06:05:27 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486691#4486691 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486689#4486689 Author: sagichim
Subject: 86207
Posted: April 15 2012 at 06:03

And mop is the mother.]]> Sun, 15 Apr 2012 06:03:22 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=86207&PID=4486689#4486689