Progressive Rock Music Forum : Prog does not groove? http://www.progarchives.com/forum/ This is an XML content feed of; Progressive Rock Music Forum : Prog Music Lounge : Prog does not groove? Copyright (c) 2006-2009 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved. Tue, 21 May 2013 19:08:55 +0000 Wed, 06 Mar 2013 22:59:12 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 9.69 360 www.progarchives.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=90319 Progressive Rock Music Forum http://www.progarchives.com/forum/css_styles/mac-prog/PAlogo_v2.gif http://www.progarchives.com/forum/ Prog does not groove? : Oh i think it can!!! http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4734587#4734587 Author: Harold13
Subject: 90319
Posted: March 06 2013 at 22:59

Oh i think it can!!! Clap]]> Wed, 06 Mar 2013 22:59:12 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4734587#4734587 Prog does not groove? : Originally posted by DayvenkirqNot... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4734235#4734235 Author: Josef_K
Subject: 90319
Posted: March 06 2013 at 11:56

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

Not sure if the groove itself is disturbing.


Well, what I meant was that it's so groovy that one (at least I) can't believe it's in 9/8 at first glance. Its because of it's "fake simplicity" that mainly comes from the low amount of notes used I guess. So back when I only loved listening to Supper's Ready and wasn't too familiar with all the parts yet, I always fell for that one and started to feel the groove in 4/4 and then stopping every second like "wait, what happened there?", then begin to groove again and repeat :D (well ok, I didn't repeat it every second but you get my point). It is a deceptive groove in a way, which I why I chose to call it disturbing. Whatever one calls it, its deceptive quality is what makes that certain piece so unique imo. 

P.S. Even though I am an amateur musician I often have a hard time figuring out time signatures in songs, this might be a reason why above applies to me to a greater extent than others. 
]]> Wed, 06 Mar 2013 11:56:09 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4734235#4734235 Prog does not groove? : Groove The spiral track cut... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4733648#4733648 Author: Roxbrough
Subject: 90319
Posted: March 05 2013 at 10:32

Groove The spiral track cut into a phonograph record for the stylus to follow.
My progressive music certainly has plenty]]> Tue, 05 Mar 2013 10:32:09 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4733648#4733648 Prog does not groove? : Caravan grooves. It's a British... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4733636#4733636 Author: Guldbamsen
Subject: 90319
Posted: March 05 2013 at 10:16

Caravan grooves. It's a British thang, but boy does it ever groove. ]]> Tue, 05 Mar 2013 10:16:08 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4733636#4733636 Prog does not groove? : Originally posted by Josef_KApocalypse... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4733630#4733630 Author: Dayvenkirq
Subject: 90319
Posted: March 05 2013 at 09:55

Originally posted by Josef_K

Apocalypse in 9/8 is one of the most awesome (and equally disturbing) grooves I've ever heard. Then again, if you listen mostly to symphonic or avant-garde prog then I guess there is not so much focus on the groove. Wouldn't say it applies to the genre as a whole at all though.
Not sure if the groove itself is disturbing.]]> Tue, 05 Mar 2013 09:55:12 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4733630#4733630 Prog does not groove? : Just in case this hasn't... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4733591#4733591 Author: chopper
Subject: 90319
Posted: March 05 2013 at 08:14

Just in case this hasn't been mentioned, Yes' version of America grooves like hell in the instrumental section.]]> Tue, 05 Mar 2013 08:14:49 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4733591#4733591 Prog does not groove? : Apocalypse in 9/8 is one of the... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4733587#4733587 Author: Josef_K
Subject: 90319
Posted: March 05 2013 at 08:12

Apocalypse in 9/8 is one of the most awesome (and equally disturbing) grooves I've ever heard. Then again, if you listen mostly to symphonic or avant-garde prog then I guess there is not so much focus on the groove. Wouldn't say it applies to the genre as a whole at all though.

Edited by Josef_K - March 05 2013 at 08:13]]> Tue, 05 Mar 2013 08:12:00 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4733587#4733587 Prog does not groove? : THey took away the TRAINS? (Maybe... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4732135#4732135 Author: akamaisondufromage
Subject: 90319
Posted: March 03 2013 at 04:26

THey took away the TRAINS?  (Maybe they just don't stop in Swindon any more?)]]> Sun, 03 Mar 2013 04:26:13 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4732135#4732135 Prog does not groove? : ^Well Swindon can get you down... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4732132#4732132 Author: Snow Dog
Subject: 90319
Posted: March 03 2013 at 04:01

^Well Swindon can get you down since they took the trains away.]]> Sun, 03 Mar 2013 04:01:10 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4732132#4732132 Prog does not groove? : Originally posted by Dayvenkirq^... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4732123#4732123 Author: bytor2112
Subject: 90319
Posted: March 03 2013 at 03:46

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

^ OK, calm down and turn off Caps Lock.

LOL I was really waiting for someone to say this.
]]> Sun, 03 Mar 2013 03:46:16 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4732123#4732123 Prog does not groove? : ^ OK, calm down and turn off Caps... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4732111#4732111 Author: Dayvenkirq
Subject: 90319
Posted: March 03 2013 at 03:23

^ OK, calm down and turn off Caps Lock.]]> Sun, 03 Mar 2013 03:23:16 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4732111#4732111 Prog does not groove? : AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4732093#4732093 Author: joker1961
Subject: 90319
Posted: March 03 2013 at 02:37

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. PROGERSSIVE ROCK GROOVE`S YOU IN MORE WAY`S THAN ANYWAY. THIS MAKE`S ME DeadDeadDeadDeadDeadDeadDeadDeadDeadDeadAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngryAngry AS THE NARROW MIND
DON`T UNDERSTAND THE MUSIC MOVEMEANT. 
]]> Sun, 03 Mar 2013 02:37:59 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4732093#4732093 Prog does not groove? : Originally posted by RoyFairbank Originally... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4728458#4728458 Author: Metalmarsh89
Subject: 90319
Posted: February 24 2013 at 19:42

Originally posted by RoyFairbank

Originally posted by Metalmarsh89



When I imagine Pink Floyd songs grooving, I think of songs like One of the Days, Money, or Sheep (the ending). Am I on the right track here?


Those are definitely groovy songs IMO. I mean they had Another Brick In The Wall which is practically rocked-out disco.

Yes, I see what you mean. I know the nice feeling the groove offers from these songs, I've just never applied that definition to them in my own head.

I also made a major typo, I meant One of THESE Days of course.
]]> Sun, 24 Feb 2013 19:42:09 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4728458#4728458 Prog does not groove? : Originally posted by Metalmarsh89 When... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4728373#4728373 Author: RoyFairbank
Subject: 90319
Posted: February 24 2013 at 16:22

Originally posted by Metalmarsh89



When I imagine Pink Floyd songs grooving, I think of songs like One of the Days, Money, or Sheep (the ending). Am I on the right track here?


Those are definitely groovy songs IMO. I mean they had Another Brick In The Wall which is practically rocked-out disco.
]]> Sun, 24 Feb 2013 16:22:02 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4728373#4728373 Prog does not groove? : Originally posted by RoyFairbankPink... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4728171#4728171 Author: Metalmarsh89
Subject: 90319
Posted: February 24 2013 at 10:15

Originally posted by RoyFairbank

Pink Floyd is just one band that grooves..... I think most prog has a good groove and a lot of prog indeed has strong 60s/70s "black music" RnB, funk, jazz, etc. influences or disco influences or influences from other genres with a more stereotypical or prominently displayed groove.The groove can be more complex, but its no less groovy. 


When I imagine Pink Floyd songs grooving, I think of songs like One of the Days, Money, or Sheep (the ending). Am I on the right track here?
]]> Sun, 24 Feb 2013 10:15:14 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4728171#4728171 Prog does not groove? : Pink Floyd is just one band that... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4728104#4728104 Author: RoyFairbank
Subject: 90319
Posted: February 24 2013 at 07:11

Pink Floyd is just one band that grooves..... I think most prog has a good groove and a lot of prog indeed has strong 60s/70s "black music" RnB, funk, jazz, etc. influences or disco influences or influences from other genres with a more stereotypical or prominently displayed groove.The groove can be more complex, but its no less groovy. 
]]> Sun, 24 Feb 2013 07:11:32 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4728104#4728104 Prog does not groove? : Prog does not not groove. People... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4727288#4727288 Author: Tapfret
Subject: 90319
Posted: February 23 2013 at 00:35

Prog does not not groove. People do not groove.]]> Sat, 23 Feb 2013 00:35:53 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4727288#4727288 Prog does not groove? : I do believe Prog bands groove.... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4725291#4725291 Author: JefferySvenson
Subject: 90319
Posted: February 19 2013 at 19:59

I do believe Prog bands groove. I have been told similar things by friends in regards to Progressive music. They don't like it because they "cant follow" it or there's not enough "riffage". 
Pfft! 

Of course not all Prog bands are particularly known for their ability to "groove", but it's not hard to find a song that demonstrates a groovy riff that even non-prog folk can enjoy. The biggest difference though is that prog bands have a tendency to use these things to play with peoples expectations - which is great! I usually just give my friends some examples and tell them to listen to them when they're feeling patient. They don't always turn to the prog side, but you know, sometimes. ]]> Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:59:47 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4725291#4725291 Prog does not groove? : Originally posted by J.LaI'm... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4715406#4715406 Author: Neo-Romantic
Subject: 90319
Posted: February 05 2013 at 03:40

Originally posted by J.La

 
 
I'm not too familiar with King Crimson (I know, I know ....), but their song "Happy with what you have to be happy with" has some serious groovin' going on. Great lyrics too.
 

Yeah, that whole album had some real tight grooves, especially the instrumentals. If you're a fan of the heavier, groove-oriented side of prog and want to learn more about KC, I highly recommend Larks' Tongues in Aspic through Red. Their 80s stuff is really groove-oriented too, but nothing beats the albums I previously mentioned in my book. I'm willing to admit I'm biased though. But still, they've got power, drive, and musicianship where it really counts!

]]> Tue, 05 Feb 2013 03:40:20 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4715406#4715406 Prog does not groove? : Originally posted by Neo-Romantic When... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4715400#4715400 Author: J.La
Subject: 90319
Posted: February 05 2013 at 02:50

Originally posted by Neo-Romantic

When I think groove, I think of the Dream Theater album Images and Words, especially the verses of Take the Time and the bridge and solo sections in Under a Glass Moon. The bass groove in the latter is unbelievable.

Indeed. The Flower Kings - In the Eyes of the World? I know I can't sit still, I have to air-drum along. And I'm no drummer, so you can imagine what it looks like!
 
I'm not too familiar with King Crimson (I know, I know ....), but their song "Happy with what you have to be happy with" has some serious groovin' going on. Great lyrics too.
 
[TUBE]B2LoNi4GibA[/TUBE]


Edited by J.La - February 05 2013 at 02:54]]> Tue, 05 Feb 2013 02:50:51 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4715400#4715400 Prog does not groove? : Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112Prog... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4715397#4715397 Author: Neo-Romantic
Subject: 90319
Posted: February 05 2013 at 02:40

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112

Prog can definitely groove listen to Red by King Crimson and i don't really like the bandShocked

Definitely agree with you there (although I do like the band, and Red is my all-time favorite album). When I think groove, I think of the Dream Theater album Images and Words, especially the verses of Take the Time and the bridge and solo sections in Under a Glass Moon. The bass groove in the latter is unbelievable.

]]> Tue, 05 Feb 2013 02:40:00 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4715397#4715397 Prog does not groove? : Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112Prog... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4715350#4715350 Author: Kati
Subject: 90319
Posted: February 05 2013 at 00:43

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112

Prog can definitely groove listen to Red by King Crimson and i don't really like the bandShocked
 
hahahahaha! ProgMetaller LOL you little pest Smile hahahaha!!!! Hug
]]> Tue, 05 Feb 2013 00:43:24 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4715350#4715350 Prog does not groove? : Prog can definitely groove listen... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4715347#4715347 Author: ProgMetaller2112
Subject: 90319
Posted: February 05 2013 at 00:40

Prog can definitely groove listen to Red by King Crimson and i don't really like the bandShocked]]> Tue, 05 Feb 2013 00:40:47 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4715347#4715347 Prog does not groove? : My friend, keyboardist Mychael... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4715230#4715230 Author: cstack3
Subject: 90319
Posted: February 04 2013 at 20:40

My friend, keyboardist Mychael Pollard, certainly DOES groove!  Check out this funky stuff! 

http://youtu.be/eEzMuNRM_ng



Edited by cstack3 - February 04 2013 at 20:42]]> Mon, 04 Feb 2013 20:40:45 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4715230#4715230 Prog does not groove? : At the end of the day, what constitiutes... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4714103#4714103 Author: elbownut
Subject: 90319
Posted: February 03 2013 at 04:53

At the end of the day, what constitiutes "groove" will differ from person to person
 
Whilst I wouldnt expect to hear wall-to-wall prog at a "knees-up" type of party ie wedding, I think that prog grooves in places.
 
Certainly recall moving around to Roundabout and Ive Seen all good people when seeing Yes live in the 70s !Smile
 
Numerous other examples already mentioned
]]> Sun, 03 Feb 2013 04:53:23 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4714103#4714103 Prog does not groove? : Many thanks Ajay. I note within... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4714054#4714054 Author: Salt Peanuts
Subject: 90319
Posted: February 03 2013 at 02:45

Many thanks Ajay.
I note within this thread that many people respond to criticism of prog by criticising other styles. Music is music. Style is unimportant and an 8th note looks like an 8th note when written down.

In my youth I was a prog snob. I thought prog outshone blues and pop. Naive to the point of foolishness. Uneducated, certainly. I learned from my many wonderful teachers and more experienced musicians I worked with just how wrong I was. Many of these lessons were screamed at me by angry band leaders. Needless to say, I took the lessons to heart.

Is there a superior form of music, a better music than any other? No. That idea is born of racism in the European conservatories of the past. A symphony MUST be superior to an African of Indian savage beating a drum. Nonsense. Chopin playing his triplets is better than an Indian playing triplets, how? The music is just different.

Fans of prog enjoy a form of pop music. Just as fans of hip hop enjoy a form of pop music. Any professional musician should be able to play a prog song. Just as they should be able to play funk, samba or country and western.

As a player, I have played many styles. It is what must be done if one wishes to pay the rent. A prog gig on Monday, a jazz gig on Tuesday. It is all the same. One style simply has a different approach from another. Prog and other forms of R&B are felt more on the downbeat. Latin and Brasilian styles are felt more on the upbeat. Jazz is swung and highly syncopated and communication in the moment is the key. It is this highly evolved syncopation that hides its beauty from the average rock listener. The brain is unable to distinguish and sort the various rhythms. I often have to help students through this sophisticated litening exercise. This is why it doesn't sell. And is why Earl Palmer and others added the backbeat.

Prog as a style is like any other western pop music form. It began with the 6-8 clave of the Oruba people from Nigeria, transported as slaves to the new world. This rhythm gave birth to many others, such as blues. The shuffle behind Fanfare for the common man owes as much to that birth rite as the jump blues bands in Chicago and New York in the 1930s, the music that began all form of what we call rock and roll.

For me, a student of music, there is not enough time in the day to take it all in. Everywhere I look I find startling new music. A student gave me a book on gamelan music for xmas. I was fascinated and begin instruction next Thursday. I am already searching for bells to buy. Latin music and jazz, African, Indian, samba.... Human beings have created wondrous forms of music. I am trying to learn as much as possible, but I am left humbled by my inadequacy and lack of time.

My advice to any open minded music lover is this; if ever you hear a musical style you do not understand, listen to it over and over until you do. The fault is not with the music. Music has no faults. It is simply that one does not understand the music. There is a form of music to suit every facet of the human condition. And that is why it exists.

Even One Direction. Because that young girl needs them.

By the way, I am deeply in love with music.

Thanks again Ajay.]]> Sun, 03 Feb 2013 02:45:09 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4714054#4714054 Prog does not groove? : Originally posted by Salt... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4714020#4714020 Author: Ajay
Subject: 90319
Posted: February 03 2013 at 01:01

Originally posted by Salt Peanuts

All music grooves, in its own way. Unless the musicians playing it are terrible. Starting, I must say, with the drummer. And good drummers groove.

Exactly. Ask any mix engineer. If it makes you tap your foot or bob your head or play air guitar or air drums or air Moog or sing or clap along, it grooves.

Except for Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift never grooves.

Welcome!

PS Please don't murder me!
]]> Sun, 03 Feb 2013 01:01:59 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4714020#4714020 Prog does not groove? : Originally posted by NeelusSpoke... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4714018#4714018 Author: Kati
Subject: 90319
Posted: February 03 2013 at 00:52

Originally posted by Neelus

Spoke to a blues rock fanatic yesterday, and he told me the reason prog rock is not widely loved is the fact that it does not groove, and therefore has no soul. 
I tried to explain to him that complex rhythms has the ability to groove fantastically, it all depends where you place the accents.  He basically closed the argument by saying that most people like to groove, and few like prog, so let the evidence speak for itself.  We ended up chatting about the Allman Brothers, a band we both like, and agreed to disagree on the previous subject.  I dont know, does prog rock not groove?
 
Neelus, people who do not listen to prog have a wrong perception of it, completely wrong. To me blues and rock constantly played in most the predictable 3 chords does not interest me either, on the contrary I hate it. No soul this is odd or crazy too because prog can be most explosive exciting while also be most touching reaching a fabulous most brilliant climax, this feeling one will never get with plain blues or rock which is just consistant the expected.  
]]> Sun, 03 Feb 2013 00:52:26 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4714018#4714018 Prog does not groove? : Hello. I joined this forum mainly... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4714007#4714007 Author: Salt Peanuts
Subject: 90319
Posted: February 03 2013 at 00:24

Hello.
I joined this forum mainly to address this thread question; Does Prog groove?

I asked this question of my first drum teacher back in the late 70s. His answer "Yes, but things groove in their own way." Today, after a 30+ year career as a professional drummer, I agree. If the music has a pulse that propels it forward, then essentially that is "groove".

If we look back at the history of what was once called Symphonic rock, there is ample evidence, not only of pulse, but even what a Motown fan might call groove, or feel. The point that escqpes many people who dislike Prog, is that those involved in creating it grew up listenning to Motown, Stax and various other pop styles emanating from America. People such as Phil Collins and Peter Hammill loved that music. And they were not alone.

Listenning from my vantage point, the drum throne, it is obvious that groove exists. An example might be Cinema show, where Phil Collins plays a rhythm that is obviously born in the James Brown songbook. And Phil and the band nail it. Even Carl Palmer, who had to be more interactive in an arrangement, kept the 1/4 note pulse going during fills. Just listen to his tom rolls during Tarkus. The 1/4 note pulse is respected and felt, if not heard, by the listener.

Many people who are not musicians, are fond of their opinions. And good luck to them. This does not mean they are learned. As a musician I have heard many many opinions from drunks and the sober after, before and sadly, during performances. Indeed, noteworthy was the drunk who accused me of being an infamous murderer. I smiled and thanked him for staying and watching the show, regardless of my grissly past.

All music grooves, in its own way. Unless the musicians playing it are terrible. Starting, I must say, with the drummer. And good drummers groove. ]]> Sun, 03 Feb 2013 00:24:41 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4714007#4714007 Prog does not groove? : One more red nightmare has some... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4709656#4709656 Author: ProgEpics
Subject: 90319
Posted: January 27 2013 at 09:23

One more red nightmare has some NASTY grooves in it. And pink floyd is heavily blues influenced and play many blues type grooves, especially on dark side and shine on.]]> Sun, 27 Jan 2013 09:23:45 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4709656#4709656 Prog does not groove? : <iframe width="420"... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4704125#4704125 Author: Fighter
Subject: 90319
Posted: January 20 2013 at 16:33

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bEX85p1R308" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
i would recommend David Sancious and Tone to anyone who thinks prog can't groove. at the very least it shows that symphonic ideas can be fused with those of soul music.
]]> Sun, 20 Jan 2013 16:33:18 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4704125#4704125 Prog does not groove? : There is plenty of prog that... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4698560#4698560 Author: reformationband
Subject: 90319
Posted: January 13 2013 at 09:37

There is plenty of prog that grooves. Pink Floyd grooves hardcore, and they are one of the most influential prog bands that ever existed.  The blues rock fanatic the OP is talking about is obviously a very close minded person. And the thing about blues rock is that it's cool until you realize that alot of them are basically just blues shuffles or minor variations on it. That gets old after hearing it in 10,000 different songs.]]> Sun, 13 Jan 2013 09:37:04 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4698560#4698560 Prog does not groove? : The world is filled with folk... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4689538#4689538 Author: ProcolWho?
Subject: 90319
Posted: December 30 2012 at 23:42

 The world is filled with folk that aren't capable of appreciating prog.

 Your friend is just one of many.
]]> Sun, 30 Dec 2012 23:42:37 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4689538#4689538 Prog does not groove? : http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4689536#4689536 Author: ProcolWho?
Subject: 90319
Posted: December 30 2012 at 23:37

]]> Sun, 30 Dec 2012 23:37:57 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4689536#4689536 Prog does not groove? : ^ I bet that Gurtusyncopationwill... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4676770#4676770 Author: Dayvenkirq
Subject: 90319
Posted: December 10 2012 at 18:21

^ I bet that Gurtu syncopation will never cease to amaze me.

Not quite sure if anyone has mentioned this one, seeing that we have nine pages of punishing our beloved blues-rock fanatic: Soft Machine's Third, anyone? Tracks 1, 2, and 4?

Edited by Dayvenkirq - December 30 2012 at 23:57]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 18:21:53 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4676770#4676770 Prog does not groove? : 922LumI2iloexPzWDQN1b4WpNjZDX0-uc... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4676763#4676763 Author: dwill123
Subject: 90319
Posted: December 10 2012 at 18:13

[TUBE]922LumI2ilo[/TUBE]
[TUBE]exPzWDQN1b4[/TUBE]
 
[TUBE]WpNjZDX0-uc[/TUBE]
]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 18:13:16 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4676763#4676763 Prog does not groove? : Originally posted by NeelusSpoke... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4676742#4676742 Author: KingCrInuYasha
Subject: 90319
Posted: December 10 2012 at 17:26

Originally posted by Neelus

Spoke to a blues rock fanatic yesterday, and he told me the reason prog rock is not widely loved is the fact that it does not groove, and therefore has no soul. 


And yet, blues has soul, why?
]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 17:26:46 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4676742#4676742 Prog does not groove? : Remember guys. I&#039;m saying... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4676542#4676542 Author: progbethyname
Subject: 90319
Posted: December 10 2012 at 11:23

Remember guys. I'm saying some styles of Jazz to me are an array of noise pollution. Not all styles. :)]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 11:23:33 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4676542#4676542 Prog does not groove? : Originally posted by NeelusSpoke... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4676404#4676404 Author: awaken77
Subject: 90319
Posted: December 10 2012 at 02:43

Originally posted by Neelus

Spoke to a blues rock fanatic yesterday, and he told me the reason prog rock is not widely loved is the fact that it does not groove, and therefore has no soul. 

Suggest him to listen Magma Big smile   It does groove, for sure


Edited by awaken77 - December 10 2012 at 02:43]]> Mon, 10 Dec 2012 02:43:17 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4676404#4676404 Prog does not groove? : Originally posted by Ytse_Jam Originally... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4675163#4675163 Author: progbethyname
Subject: 90319
Posted: December 07 2012 at 21:01

Originally posted by Ytse_Jam



Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

^ Seriously? You call that scattered and disorganized noises? Thou might as well calleth "Discreet Music" a bunch of scattered and disorganized noises.


Not your link in general. There is nothing to open here. My comments are not in relation to your link.

His link is a perfect example of non-groovy jazz that isn't only a bunch of noises, don't you think?
EDIT: sorry, I did read your last post Smile



For some reason I can't open it through my I phone, but if I had a PC it would probably work. I gotta get another computer.
]]> Fri, 07 Dec 2012 21:01:07 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4675163#4675163 Prog does not groove? : Originally posted by progbethyname Originally... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4674197#4674197 Author: Ytse_Jam
Subject: 90319
Posted: December 06 2012 at 06:14

Originally posted by progbethyname

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

^ Seriously? You call that scattered and disorganized noises? Thou might as well calleth "Discreet Music" a bunch of scattered and disorganized noises.


Not your link in general. There is nothing to open here. My comments are not in relation to your link.
His link is a perfect example of non-groovy jazz that isn't only a bunch of noises, don't you think?

EDIT: sorry, I did read your last post Smile


Edited by Ytse_Jam - December 06 2012 at 06:15]]> Thu, 06 Dec 2012 06:14:36 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4674197#4674197 Prog does not groove? : Originally posted by Remembermrsandy Originally... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4674078#4674078 Author: irrelevant
Subject: 90319
Posted: December 05 2012 at 22:14

Originally posted by Remembermrsandy

Originally posted by irrelevant

Prog is not a sound-based genre, that's why it's often difficult to explain what it is.
Do you mean that prog is defined more by conceptual manners of composition and technique (Odd times signatures, long compositions, fusing of genres, boundary dissolving etc) rather than the actual experience of the "sound" or music referred to as prog?

I think not conceptually. But yeah, putting it very simply I think it's all in the composition, that's why Genesis and Behold... The Arctopus can be put in one same (but very large) circle, if you get my drift. Welcome to the site too. Smile


Edited by irrelevant - December 05 2012 at 22:17]]> Wed, 05 Dec 2012 22:14:40 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4674078#4674078 Prog does not groove? : Originally posted by Dayvenkirq^... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4673977#4673977 Author: progbethyname
Subject: 90319
Posted: December 05 2012 at 18:56

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

^ What are they in relation to?


Some Jazz styles in general. For instance, I really can't get into the rio avant/guarde jazz style of John Zorn. It's like stabbing litte pins into my brain one at a time. I think it's because maybe he combines some kind of a grindcore with his saxaphone playing and it just drives me up the wall. It's sounds like scattered noises, where by its like he is showing off his skillful saxaphone playing with no cohesion or direction. It's just mental masterbation for the listener. Can't get into that style of jazz.

Sorry. I should have been more specific to the style of jazz that erks me.
I'm sure your link is much nicer. ]]> Wed, 05 Dec 2012 18:56:40 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4673977#4673977 Prog does not groove? : ^ What are they in relation to?... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4673967#4673967 Author: Dayvenkirq
Subject: 90319
Posted: December 05 2012 at 18:35

^ What are they in relation to?]]> Wed, 05 Dec 2012 18:35:04 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4673967#4673967 Prog does not groove? : Originally posted by Dayvenkirq^... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4673942#4673942 Author: progbethyname
Subject: 90319
Posted: December 05 2012 at 17:52

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

^ Seriously? You call that scattered and disorganized noises? Thou might as well calleth "Discreet Music" a bunch of scattered and disorganized noises.


Not your link in general. There is nothing to open here. My comments are not in relation to your link. ]]> Wed, 05 Dec 2012 17:52:35 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4673942#4673942 Prog does not groove? : Originally posted by HorizonsLet&#039;s... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4673907#4673907 Author: KingCrInuYasha
Subject: 90319
Posted: December 05 2012 at 17:06

Originally posted by Horizons

Let's be honest here, prog has no soul.


Neither does rock 'n' roll. The only difference is that the latter usually does a better job at hiding it.
]]> Wed, 05 Dec 2012 17:06:18 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4673907#4673907 Prog does not groove? : It&#039;s been right in... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4673889#4673889 Author: Dayvenkirq
Subject: 90319
Posted: December 05 2012 at 16:26

It's been right in front of you all along, big guy. Smile


Originally posted by Remembermrsandy

Originally posted by irrelevant

Prog is not a sound-based genre, that's why it's often difficult to explain what it is.
Do you mean that prog is defined more by conceptual manners of composition and technique (Odd times signatures, long compositions, fusing of genres, boundary dissolving etc) rather than the actual experience of the "sound" or music referred to as prog?
No genre is characterized with experience, but just with certain technical features.


Edited by Dayvenkirq - December 05 2012 at 16:30]]> Wed, 05 Dec 2012 16:26:25 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4673889#4673889 Prog does not groove? : Originally posted byirrelevant:Prog... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4673822#4673822 Author: Remembermrsandy
Subject: 90319
Posted: December 05 2012 at 14:48

Originally posted by irrelevant: Prog is not a sound-based genre, that's why it's often difficult to explain what it is. 


Do you mean that prog is defined more by conceptual manners of composition and technique (Odd times signatures, long compositions, fusing of genres, boundary dissolving etc)  rather than the actual experience of the "sound" or music referred to as prog?

I am a "prog" musician myself, i'm interested to see what exactly you mean. 

P.S Can anyone tell me how to make a quote box on my reply's? As you can see mine has been typed manually Embarrassed


Edited by Remembermrsandy - December 05 2012 at 14:52]]> Wed, 05 Dec 2012 14:48:40 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4673822#4673822 Prog does not groove? : Originally posted by NeelusSpoke... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4673682#4673682 Author: acdc7369
Subject: 90319
Posted: December 05 2012 at 11:34

Originally posted by Neelus

Spoke to a blues rock fanatic yesterday, and he told me the reason prog rock is not widely loved is the fact that it does not groove, and therefore has no soul. 
I tried to explain to him that complex rhythms has the ability to groove fantastically, it all depends where you place the accents.  He basically closed the argument by saying that most people like to groove, and few like prog, so let the evidence speak for itself.  We ended up chatting about the Allman Brothers, a band we both like, and agreed to disagree on the previous subject.  I dont know, does prog rock not groove?


Some prog does not groove.  Some prog grooves more and is more soulful than any other kind of music I've ever heard. I think the real problems are that this blues rock fanatic has not listened to a lot of prog, he loves making blanketed/overgeneralized statements, and is close minded.

A great example is directly in your avatar.  Pink Floyd has a lot of groove.  Jazz fusion grooves (HERBIE HANCOCK - "I Thought It Was You".)


Edited by acdc7369 - December 05 2012 at 11:36]]> Wed, 05 Dec 2012 11:34:05 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4673682#4673682 Prog does not groove? : Well, I believe that&#039;s what... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4673664#4673664 Author: Dayvenkirq
Subject: 90319
Posted: December 05 2012 at 11:08

Well, I believe that's what all of us assumed.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - December 05 2012 at 11:10]]> Wed, 05 Dec 2012 11:08:31 +0000 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=90319&PID=4673664#4673664