Progressive Rock Music Forum : Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Sat, 18 May 2013 11:57:14 +0000

Author: moshkito
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 18 2013 at 11:57

Originally posted by Dean

Bluesy Psychedelic Rock and Acid Rock, in what has later been seen as Art Rock (but wasn't at the time), they were never Progressive Rock, they followed a parallel path of their own that can be regarded as a progressive approach and mindset (which was not uncommon back then). Influential on the development of Prog certainly, (which is why we list them here in Proto-Prog), but none of their songs are Prog Rock within the late 60s early 70s framework, nor did it ever seem to be heading in that direction.

Agreed.

I think the whole thing was geared more towards what Jim came up with than anything else ... and the problem was that it was a oen way road to no one knows where ... but the music left behind is astounding ... and yeah ... the feelings, the moods and the "visualness" of the words, are what sticks the most in my mind. Most of the "progressive" bands are nowhere near that at all.

I kinda think that in the West Coast in America, the desire to be more musically adventurous just was not there ... the "trip" was always more interesting and fun than anything else, and most bands in SF and LA displayed that and few of them went out of that element to be able to be considered ... "progressive".

But the influence ... is all over the place and then some, which makes it hard to not mention and include sometimes!

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Sat, 18 May 2013 10:32:48 +0000

Author: Guldbamsen
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 18 2013 at 10:32

I don't get it either

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Sat, 18 May 2013 00:02:55 +0000

Author: Tom Ozric
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 18 2013 at 00:02

Originally posted by The T

Originally posted by Tom Ozric

In all respect - if The Beatles are considered a Proto-Prog band, then surely The Doors are more than worthy. 'Proto' is the keyword. Prog, but not 'Prog'.

Ehem....

Hmm, dunno what to say, then......

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 19:35:29 +0000

Author: The T
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 19:35

Originally posted by Tom Ozric

In all respect - if The Beatles are considered a Proto-Prog band, then surely The Doors are more than worthy.� 'Proto' is the keyword.� Prog, but not 'Prog'.

Ehem....

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 19:21:17 +0000

Author: Dean
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 19:21

I don't think anyone's questioning their worthiness for Proto Prog.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 19:10:22 +0000

Author: Tom Ozric
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 19:10

In all respect - if The Beatles are considered a Proto-Prog band, then surely The Doors are more than worthy. 'Proto' is the keyword. Prog, but not 'Prog'.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 13:50:59 +0000

Author: HolyMoly
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 13:50

Originally posted by Guldbamsen

Originally posted by HolyMoly

I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now, for wasting the dawn.

My favourite Jim Morrison quote. Texas Radio and the Big Beat baby

Always loved that track.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 13:30:00 +0000

Author: Guldbamsen
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 13:30

Originally posted by HolyMoly

I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now, for wasting the dawn.

My favourite Jim Morrison quote. Texas Radio and the Big Beat baby

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 13:18:34 +0000

Author: Svetonio
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 13:18

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Svetonio

Originally posted by Gerinski

Nothing else to add.

I disagree. The Doors were U.S. '60s progressive rock act without a doubt. The Doors just weren't a part of English Progressive Rock Movement what virtually makes above mentioned "late 60s early 70s framework". The Doors regulary ought to be in Archives as Psych, or Eclectic, or Crossover prog act - nevermind in which one section of those exactly, but that section ought to be a progressive rock category, not "proto prog".

You cannot reinvent the history of Progressive Rock to make it fit your idealised dream of what happened back then or to slot in your favourite artists, that is simply revisionist and wrong. Nor can you redefine what Prog Rock is to make them fit - if they were not described as Progressive Rock in their own timeframe we cannot decribe them as such now.

The Doors do not fit into any of those subgenres, even Psych is wholly inapproriate because they never made a Psychedelic Progressive Rock record (if that less-than subtle distinction flies over your head then I suggest you read the Psych/Space Rock genre definition) ... we do not add every Psychedelic Rock band there ever was into that genre, just as we do nat add every Avant Garde composer into Avant Prog or every Electric Folk Rock artist into Prog Folk.

I can't reinvent history of Progressive Rock, but there are some musicologists who can do it and who alredy did it!

A long time ago I meet Koja ("Koya") who was leader of �arlo Akrobata, a Punk trio from New Belgrade, Serbia, because he use to live just a few blocks away from my place.

�arlo Akrobata trio were 100% punk outfit when released that material what on very misterious way qualified them for Prog Archives. Well, because of so called "patriotic" reason, I would be happy because one punk bass player from my street is in PA' RIO / Avant Prog section, where the legends like THE DOORS "can not be" included, because "not every avant band is prog" and so on, but ...

I find one "prog" video of �arlo Akrobata. I just wish that The Doors fan(s) notice how sounds a PUNK band that has an advantage as "RIO / Avant prog" over The Doors.

http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=3696
"... Today, we can take a broader look at the band from prog rock perspective: their inovation and elements of art rock / avant Rock ..."

[TUBE]v3O7t9lwv4E[/TUBE]
This song is their athem. Maybe nice punk song, but Prog???!!

Regards!

Edited by Svetonio - Yesterday at 13:50

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 13:12:04 +0000

Author: HolyMoly
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 13:12

I tell you this, no eternal reward will forgive us now, for wasting the dawn.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 13:09:33 +0000

Author: Melomaniac
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 13:09

Open minded prog approach : check

Some prog moments : check

Ahead of their time : check

Good musicianship : check

The Doors were influential in the development of the prog scene for sure, maybe among the first prog bands, but definitely proto prog.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 12:56:40 +0000

Author: Guldbamsen
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 12:56

^exactomundo.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 12:46:58 +0000

Author: tamijo
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 12:46

Originally posted by NotAProghead

They are THE DOORS. Nuff said. Bigger than any genre. That's it.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 12:38:18 +0000

Author: NotAProghead
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 12:38

They are THE DOORS. Nuff said. Bigger than any genre. That's it.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 11:19:54 +0000

Author: Dean
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 11:19

Originally posted by Svetonio

Originally posted by Gerinski

Nothing else to add.

You cannot reinvent the history of Progressive Rock to make it fit your idealised dream of what happened back then or to slot in your favourite artists, that is simply revisionist and wrong. Nor can you redefine what Prog Rock is to make them fit - if they were not described as Progressive Rock in their own timeframe we cannot decribe them as such now.

The Doors do not fit into any of those subgenres, even Psych is wholly inapproriate because they never made a Psychedelic Progressive Rock record (if that less-than subtle distinction flies over your head then I suggest you read the Psych/Space Rock genre definition) ... we do not add every Psychedelic Rock band there ever was into that genre, just as we do not add every Avant Garde composer into Avant Prog or every Electric Folk Rock artist into Prog Folk.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 11:07:38 +0000

Author: The T
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 11:07

No. But they are prog or prog-related enough to warrant inclusion here. Wait... they already are here.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 11:06:56 +0000

Author: sagichim
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 11:06

They certainly had their progy and experimental songs, but overall I don't consider them as a prog band.

Like David said they mixed a lot of styles. Diverse but not prog.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 10:19:20 +0000

Author: Chris S
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 10:19

Yes

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 10:07:11 +0000

Author: tamijo
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 10:07

I like them a lot, that's enough for me. Labels are something the industri needs for promotion, reviewers for categorization. As I listener it doesn't matter.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 09:22:57 +0000

Author: dr wu23
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 09:22

Progressive related to many other bands then? Yes.

Progressive rock..? No.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 08:46:06 +0000

Author: Svetonio
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 08:46

Originally posted by Gerinski

Nothing else to add.

I disagree. The Doors were U.S. '60s progressive rock act without a doubt. The Doors just weren't a part of English Progressive Rock Movement what virtualy makes above mentioned "late 60s early 70s framework". The Doors regulary ought to be in Archives as Psych, or Eclectic, or Crossover prog act - nevermind in which one section of those exactly, but that section ought to be a progressive rock category, not "proto prog".

Edited by Svetonio - Yesterday at 08:46

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 06:53:12 +0000

Author: Gerinski
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 06:53

Nothing else to add.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 06:39:00 +0000

Author: Guldbamsen
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 06:39

At least we agree on where to put them. Proto is indeed the right place.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 06:30:50 +0000

Author: Dean
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 06:30

Bluesy Psychedelic Rock and Acid Rock, in what has later been seen as Art Rock (but wasn't at the time), they were never Progressive Rock, they followed a parallel path of their own that can be regarded as a progressive approach and mindset (which was not uncommon back then). Influential on the development of Prog certainly, (which is why we list them here in Proto-Prog), but none of their songs are Prog Rock within the late 60s early 70s framework, nor did it ever seem to be heading in that direction.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 05:33:45 +0000

Author: Guldbamsen
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 05:33

Silly question really. The Doors were perhaps the ultimate progressive rock band, that is without ever playing 'prog'.
They were among the very first acts who brought the arts into the rock template. Nietszche, Baudelaire, Kerouac, Ginsberg, ancient Greek tragedies, Native American spiritually and etc etc etc - and that is just in the lyrics.
The music mixed rock with classical piano sprees, cabaret, circus themes, folk, free improv, jazz, blues and flamenco.

One of the most progressive bands of all time imo.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 05:20:36 +0000

Author: Svetonio
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 05:20

[TUBE]aGmAmJFUvzM[/TUBE]

[TUBE]m2kkaJWeFWo[/TUBE]

[TUBE]xtydkNm-f88[/TUBE]

[TUBE]6OyLBz7gj2Q[/TUBE]

[TUBE]jC5aQ3Lq4vI[/TUBE]

The DOORS were very progressive rock.

Edited by Svetonio - Yesterday at 05:35

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Epic Doors Poll

Fri, 17 May 2013 03:38:40 +0000

Author: Tom Ozric
Subject: Epic Doors Poll
Posted: May 17 2013 at 03:38

I've already voted a while back, but I gave 'Other Voices' a spin the other night, and 'Ships W/Sails' still means the bleedin' world to me. 'Hang On To Your Life' also............

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Asia

Fri, 17 May 2013 03:27:30 +0000

Author: Tom Ozric
Subject: Asia
Posted: May 17 2013 at 03:27

I have a picture disc in the 'Asia' logo shape - it's from the 'Alpha' period, and has the best (well, my favourite) track of the entire album in 'True Colours'. 'Astra' made me puke. Even the futuristic Roger Dean Sphinx cover-art was lame. I bought the recent 'XXX' on vinyl - it arrived rather warped so I sent it back and got my refund. I did, however, get to hear it (surprisingly, it didn't jump) - the opening track 'Tomorrow The World' was rather impressive. Hit and miss, I think.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Asia

Fri, 17 May 2013 02:48:37 +0000

Author: humor4u1959
Subject: Asia
Posted: May 17 2013 at 02:48

Remember, Wetton had been working his ass off for so many years in bands like:

Wishbone Ash
Family
King Crimson
Roxy Music
Uriah Heep
U.K.

Can you really blame him for wanting to make some money? I sure as hell can't. I really think he's a progger at heart.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Were the Doors progressive?

Fri, 17 May 2013 02:41:27 +0000

Author: humor4u1959
Subject: Were the Doors progressive?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 02:41

I think they were. Their music was quite a bit more complex than other bands back then. I'd like you to post your choice of song(s) that best demonstrate the Doors' progressive side. Thanks so much!

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Epic Doors Poll

Fri, 17 May 2013 02:11:59 +0000

Author: giselle
Subject: Epic Doors Poll
Posted: May 17 2013 at 02:11

When the Music's Over

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Fri, 17 May 2013 01:44:49 +0000

Author: Svetonio
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 01:44

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Svetonio

I edited my previous post.

*shrug* makes no difference.

Of course not. I just edited.

Anyway, I can see very clear that the problem with "prog related" section is the problem of perception. Too many perceived "prog related" as a genre, although that section wasn't initialy conceived as such.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Fri, 17 May 2013 01:25:17 +0000

Author: Dean
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 01:25

Originally posted by Svetonio

I edited my previous post.

*shrug* makes no difference.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Fri, 17 May 2013 01:22:02 +0000

Author: Svetonio
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 01:22

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Svetonio

^^ Ok, that was pretty enough for PA admins to add him as prog related act as well, but it doesn't mean that this fashionable pop artist was produced progressive rock enough for Crossover section. You would never forget what Dean pointed out: Prog RELATED IS NOT PROG.

Your grasp of this concept appears to be limited and/or somewhat selective.

I edited my previous post.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Fri, 17 May 2013 01:17:34 +0000

Author: Dean
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 01:17

Your grasp of this concept appears to be limited and/or somewhat selective.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Fri, 17 May 2013 01:01:54 +0000

Author: Svetonio
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 17 2013 at 01:01

^^ Ok, that was pretty enough for PA' admins to add him as prog related act as well, but it doesn't mean that this high priest of pop music was mimicking that progressive rock enough for PA' Crossover section. So, when you're dreaming about your fav Mr Bowie's song as a progressive rock song, you would never forget what Dean pointed out:
Prog RELATED IS NOT PROG.

Edited by Svetonio - Yesterday at 01:21

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Thu, 16 May 2013 23:04:54 +0000

Author: The Dark Elf
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 16 2013 at 23:04

Originally posted by Svetonio

Originally posted by The Dark Elf

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Svetonio

His proggy phase is like a cabaret.

I don't like a cabaret music, so I prefer his greatest hits - they are much better than that, aren't they?

Fortunately, it's not about what you like.

(...) It's rather amusing that we are on a purportedly progressive site and you're touting greatest hits packages.

Actually, we are on PA Proto Prog / Prog Related forum. As Dean pointed out - Prog Related IS NOT PROG. So, I did that freely to present with some YouTube samples that my claim that Mr Bowie's timeless pop hits are much better because they're stronger expression than those cabaret-like song(s) you posted above (with a question adressed on me - 'is this pop', in the spirit of this poll I supposed) from his proggy atempts what was at the time also very fashionable - nothing less fashionable and mainstreamy than this (...)

Conversely, I am completely disinterested in songs like "China Girl", even if Stevie Ray Vaughan played guitar on the album, and "Fame" was tedious even with John Lennon singing background. I never bought Bowie albums for "pop hits", and I'm quite sure most of the folks here more than likely share the same general view. For me, it was Bowie iconoclastic nature, not the most palatable pieces available for mass consumption.

[TUBE]9jg4ekLG9Zo[/TUBE]

[TUBE]8a82arE0JSQ[/TUBE]

[TUBE]5EOlZyD26T4[/TUBE]

[TUBE]9Gy94N_mcWs[/TUBE]

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Led Zeppelin Celebration Day

Thu, 16 May 2013 14:38:05 +0000

Author: dr wu23
Subject: Led Zeppelin Celebration Day
Posted: May 16 2013 at 14:38

Originally posted by jayem

So onstage I don't trust LZ but I remain a great fan of most of what they recorded.

That works for me......,in the past (70's) I've seen several great classic rock bands and they all had some issues when they played live.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Led Zeppelin Celebration Day

Thu, 16 May 2013 09:55:38 +0000

Author: jayem
Subject: Led Zeppelin Celebration Day
Posted: May 16 2013 at 09:55

Originally posted by TODDLER

Jimmy Page was very accomplished as a player in the early 60's...but what the hell happened? I have recording sessions of Page with Sonny Boy Williamson where his guitar contains zero distortion. His sound has the tone quality of a George Benson. He was much cleaner when he played on the YARDBIRDS album LITTLE GAMES..but still on a downslide at that point in time and specifically on electric. He was VERY schooled in the area of the open tuning style European Folk. He mastered most or all of the guitar styles evident on Pentangle and Fairport Convention albums. Some of the Led Zeppelin songs contained more than 14 or 15 chord variations, yet his electric playing was often horrific. What the hell happened to him? Jeff Beck was his understudy so figure that one out? I just never understood how a guitar player with all that knowledge could end up sounding like a 10 year old frustrated with the pentatonic scale.

Ha! Ha! I hadn't expected any opinion to go that far.

If we're going to criticize the CDay event, how about TSRTS ? Bonham's power-play was efficient, Page was moving good on stage, and obviously it was huge for all of them to experiment. But of course for those who prefer listening to carefully crafted pieces live, much of the magic in the albums was lost.

Even then Plant's voice was half broken already. His tendency to behave like an over-excited pulcinello was at its top, hence the vision of him as a fantastic punching bag; and I wonder which one of you has enjoyed when he shouted in a semi-choked voice "Pew-ush, pewush, pewush, pewush, pewush" like someone was behind him. No wonder that, suddenly feeling the magic gone after two or three hours in Heaven, a sad and lonely Plant shied away to his room, then for most of the night sweated desperately to get something off his johnson in order to calm down before sleeping (This last information is unverified but I've figured it out because he said about the crazy times that he was in bed by eleven every night).

So onstage I don't trust LZ but I remain a great fan of most of what they recorded.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Thu, 16 May 2013 02:36:52 +0000

Author: Gerinski
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 16 2013 at 02:36

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

He is both.

Bowie has always been both in everything

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Thu, 16 May 2013 00:47:12 +0000

Author: Dayvenkirq
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 16 2013 at 00:47

He is both.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Thu, 16 May 2013 00:41:17 +0000

Author: Barbu
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 16 2013 at 00:41

Is he or not?

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Thu, 16 May 2013 00:03:31 +0000

Author: Svetonio
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 16 2013 at 00:03

Originally posted by The Dark Elf

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Svetonio

His proggy phase is like a cabaret.

I don't like a cabaret music, so I prefer his greatest hits - they are much better than that, aren't they?

Fortunately, it's not about what you like.

(...) It's rather amusing that we are on a purportedly progressive site and you're touting greatest hits packages.

[TUBE]x92Z49WwTAo[/TUBE]

[TUBE]5nNsNw2t0RI[/TUBE]

[TUBE]ec9Ae4Vb8gQ[/TUBE]

Regards!

Edited by Svetonio - May 16 2013 at 00:38

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Wed, 15 May 2013 21:29:03 +0000

Author: The Dark Elf
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 15 2013 at 21:29

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Svetonio

His proggy phase is like a cabaret.

I don't like a cabaret music, so I prefer his greatest hits - they are much better than that, aren't they?

Fortunately, it's not about what you like.

As Dean mentioned, that you don't like "cabaret" or prefer Bowie's greatest hits is neither here nor there in the conversation. And no, I don't think Bowie's greatest hits are necessarily better than Bowie's more outlandish and experimental stuff. For instance, I'll take "Sweet Thing", "We are the Dead" or "Big Brother" over "1984" or "Rebel, Rebel" from the Diamond Dogs album, or "Time" or "Lady Grinning Soul" over "The Jean Genie" from Aladdin Sane.

It's rather amusing that we are on a purportedly progressive site and you're touting greatest hits packages.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : David Bowie - the last thirty years

Wed, 15 May 2013 15:13:51 +0000

Author: Green Shield Stamp
Subject: David Bowie - the last thirty years
Posted: May 15 2013 at 15:13

Hours for me, but The Next Day comes a close second.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Wed, 15 May 2013 10:18:05 +0000

Author: Dean
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 15 2013 at 10:18

Words cannot express what I am thinking at this moment in time.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Wed, 15 May 2013 09:52:32 +0000

Author: Svetonio
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 15 2013 at 09:52

Originally posted by Dean

�

An album that was never finished and never released managed to influence the development of Progressive Rock prior to 1969 when Wilson's re-imagined version wasn't released until 2004 and the sessions reconstruction version (which is an approximation of what the completed album may have sounded like), wasn't released until 2011 ... wow, that really was a special album.

�

Yes, it's really great album

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Wed, 15 May 2013 07:56:26 +0000

Author: Gerinski
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 15 2013 at 07:56

Originally posted by Svetonio

Anyway, if you have a section for the prog albums by no-prog bands, what I virtualy suggested, you can comfortably add for example this album

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=93288&PID=4770334#4770334

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Wed, 15 May 2013 07:04:19 +0000

Author: Dean
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 15 2013 at 07:04

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Wed, 15 May 2013 06:00:14 +0000

Author: Svetonio
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 15 2013 at 06:00

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Svetonio

No, of course it is not because are some people not very bright; a smart but musicaly inexperienced newbie, 12-13 yrs old kid comes to mind; a kid who is searching for those ancient prog albums and then run into that bunch of the bands that do not belong to the genre at all - except one or two albums by them.

That's what reviews are for. That's why Prog Related and Proto Prog albums are not listed in the Top-100 charts.

People, especially 12-13 year olds, are bright enough to see which albums are worth buying and why. They are also smart enough to appreciate that Prog Related IS NOT PROG and they should be intelligent enough to realise that when an an artist is being discussed in this lounge it is because they are already listed here and are in one of the two categories. They should be wise enough to realise we do not to discuss unlisted artists in this lounge, and clever enough to appreciate that we do not suggest or propose our favourite non-prog artists for addition in this lounge.

Originally posted by Svetonio

Also, on that way you could open a new room for more proto prog and prog related additions but with a specific prog album by no-prog artist / band and endless discussion like this will not be possible. Of couse, if discussions as such are required for any reason, then this categorization is just perfect.

Nope. We really don't want any more unsolicited Proto Prog or Prog Related suggestions or any more additions, this is why only Special Collaborators can suggest artists for these two categories. This is a Prog site for reviewing Prog albums, all this stuff is but a distracting diversion. This is why we don't allow people to create polls in this lounge. Why this poll was moved here is a mystery to me.

Anyway, if you have a section for the prog albums by no-prog bands, what I virtualy suggested, you can comfortably add for example this album

[TUBE]l3u_objODa4[/TUBE]

Without Wilson's masterpiece, I believe that many would agree that the PA' Proto Prog story is like a book with missing very important chapter.

Regards!

Edited by Svetonio - May 15 2013 at 06:03

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Wed, 15 May 2013 04:41:10 +0000

Author: Dean
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 15 2013 at 04:41

Originally posted by Svetonio

That's what reviews are for. That's why Prog Related and Proto Prog albums are not listed in the Top-100 charts.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Wed, 15 May 2013 02:57:00 +0000

Author: Svetonio
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 15 2013 at 02:57

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Svetonio

I agreed. I think to avoid that confusion, it's better to throw out proto prog section and prog related section, and make one new section with the prog albums released by no-prog artists / bands. Of course, it could never happens, but it would not be hard to do because the artists / bands in both section are already classified on the basis of one or two albums.

And we should do this because?

Is it because some people are not very bright?

(...) Prog Related is no longer a catch-all category, we do not add every artist suggested.

Also, on that way you could open a new room for more proto prog and prog related additions but with a specific prog album by no-prog artist / band and endless discussion like this will not be possible. Of couse, if discussions as such are required for any reason, then this categorization is just perfect.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Wed, 15 May 2013 02:04:04 +0000

Author: Dean
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 15 2013 at 02:04

Originally posted by Svetonio

And we should do this because?

Is it because some people are not very bright?

The site rule is whole discographies - that applies to all artists listed regardless of where they are listed. Once we start being selective on specific albums arguments will follow about which albums to list and which to exclude and that is as much of a futile waste of peoples time as evaluating every band that was a little bit experimental or different. Prog Related is no longer a catch-all category, we do not add every artist suggested.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Wed, 15 May 2013 01:24:53 +0000

Author: Svetonio
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 15 2013 at 01:24

Originally posted by ole-the-first

Originally posted by rogerthat

Originally posted by Stool Man

Are there no Prog singer-songwriters?

Ian Anderson, Jon Anderson, Kate Bush, Tori Amos, Bjork, a few I could think of.

Well, that quote is more than a reason to revisit what prog is about.

I don't think that Kate Bush is very PROG. She's art rock. Just like Bowie, but Bowie had more experimental stuff like 'Low'. And then, what is art rock? I personally always thought that it's subgenre and even sometimes alias for prog, art rock can be used to describe something more simple, more poppish, but _still_ with prominent sophistication/prog leanings.

I don't believe that Bjork fans really think that she is prog � but on that site she, Nine Inch Nails, Lacrimosa and many bands no-one ever described as progressive are counted in prog categories. Whilst many others, who always were a part of art rock movement, are listed in Prog-Related section, and that simply bugging me.

I know this is old theme for discussion, but this site really demands re-categorisation

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Wed, 15 May 2013 00:56:52 +0000

Author: Dean
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 15 2013 at 00:56

Originally posted by Svetonio

His proggy phase is like a cabaret.

I don't like a cabaret music, so I prefer his greatest hits - they are much better than that, aren't they?

Fortunately, it's not about what you like.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Wed, 15 May 2013 00:08:11 +0000

Author: cstack3
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 15 2013 at 00:08

I don't believe David Bowie is prog, but this treatment of his song is sure progressive!

[TUBE]KaOC9danxNo[/TUBE]

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 23:58:48 +0000

Author: Svetonio
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 23:58

Originally posted by The Dark Elf

Originally posted by Svetonio

My point is very simple and please let me repeat that - Mr Bowie is artistic pop, not Progressive Rock at all.

[TUBE]vrfc8c6VkTA[/TUBE]

Hmmm....let's see here: nine minutes long, symphonic, avant-garde and Brechtian influences without a trace of blues-based rock forms, extended musical themes, fantasy-like ambience and lyrics, ample, rich sounds and productions, part of a concept album, experimental, and varying time-signatures.

Please, explain to me how this is "pop" music.

His proggy phase is like a cabaret.

I don't like a cabaret music, so I prefer his greatest hits - they are much better than that, aren't they?

[TUBE]kj28soFeGl8[/TUBE]

[TUBE]LCgzX7vwlFk[/TUBE]

[TUBE]ktdQiODWt84[/TUBE]

[TUBE]CiQKe3WIHFw[/TUBE]

Edited by Svetonio - May 15 2013 at 02:59

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 19:41:19 +0000

Author: The Dark Elf
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 19:41

Originally posted by Snow Dog

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

Originally posted by The Dark Elf

Originally posted by Svetonio

My point is very simple and please let me repeat that - Mr Bowie is artistic pop, not Progressive Rock at all.

[TUBE]vrfc8c6VkTA[/TUBE]Hmmm....let's see here: nine minutes long, symphonic, avant-garde and Brechtian influences without a trace of blues-based rock forms, extended musical themes, fantasy-like ambience and lyrics, ample, rich sounds and productions, part of a concept album, experimental, and varying time-signatures. Please, explain to me how this is "pop" music.

This is just an exception.

To be accurate it isn't one song.

Neither is Thick as a Brick.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 18:27:33 +0000

Author: jude111
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 18:27

Originally posted by dr wu23

Speaking as an American who grew up in the 50's, 60's ,and college in 70's , Bowie was pretty popular and had more than 2 hits imo.

He was played regularly on fm radio and his pop songs on am.

Interesting. I don't doubt you. I have an American friend who is about 10 or 15 years older than me, and his favorite bands are groups like Genesis, Yes, the Strawbs. He said they were on the radio all the time when he was a kid; whereas I never heard Gabriel-era Genesis on the radio, or the Strawbs. Growing up shuffling back and forth between Baltimore and Florida, the only Bowie songs I heard on the radio were Fame, Changes, Young Americans and Space Oddity.

I think American radio must've become quite conservative and more American-centric as time went by?... I wonder how and why that happened...

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 18:27:07 +0000

Author: Snow Dog
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 18:27

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

Originally posted by The Dark Elf

Originally posted by Svetonio

My point is very simple and please let me repeat that - Mr Bowie is artistic pop, not Progressive Rock at all.

[TUBE]vrfc8c6VkTA[/TUBE]Hmmm....let's see here: nine minutes long, symphonic, avant-garde and Brechtian influences without a trace of blues-based rock forms, extended musical themes, fantasy-like ambience and lyrics, ample, rich sounds and productions, part of a concept album, experimental, and varying time-signatures. Please, explain to me how this is "pop" music.

This is just an exception.

To be accurate it isn't one song.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 18:16:36 +0000

Author: Dean
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 18:16

^^ While I was writing and posting my post, Mr Elf posted the same track.

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

This is just an exception.

And Cygnet Committee, Wide Eyed Boy From Free Cloud, Memory Of Free Festival, Width Of A Circle, Quicksand, Bewley Brothers, Time and Station to Station are also exceptions. As is this:

A great piece of Frippery...

[tube]i9pByyFqrFI[/tube]

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 18:00:46 +0000

Author: Dayvenkirq
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 18:00

Originally posted by The Dark Elf

Originally posted by Svetonio

My point is very simple and please let me repeat that - Mr Bowie is artistic pop, not Progressive Rock at all.

[TUBE]vrfc8c6VkTA[/TUBE]Hmmm....let's see here: nine minutes long, symphonic, avant-garde and Brechtian influences without a trace of blues-based rock forms, extended musical themes, fantasy-like ambience and lyrics, ample, rich sounds and productions, part of a concept album, experimental, and varying time-signatures. Please, explain to me how this is "pop" music.

This is just an exception.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 17:56:06 +0000

Author: Dean
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 17:56

Bowie is a rock singer-song writer and musician and he has had pop hits, but that is not is "primary genre" so to speak. Since he has dabbled in practically every style of rock music going it is impossible to say he fits into a one particular genre - Art Rock comes closest as that is an eclectic genre that covers a broad spectrum, but that would exclude his plastic soul and acid-house influenced albums - Art(istic) Pop is woefully inaccurate.

Edited by Dean - May 14 2013 at 18:00

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 17:53:03 +0000

Author: The Dark Elf
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 17:53

Originally posted by Svetonio

My point is very simple and please let me repeat that - Mr Bowie is artistic pop, not Progressive Rock at all.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 17:19:10 +0000

Author: dr wu23
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 17:19

Speaking as an American who grew up in the 50's, 60's ,and college in 70's , Bowie was pretty popular and had more than 2 hits imo.

He was played regularly on fm radio and his pop songs on am.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 13:59:54 +0000

Author: jude111
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 13:59

I suppose in England many may consider Bowie to be 'pop.' In the US though, particularly in the 70s, he had maybe 2 'hits', and generally his music was not considered to be accessible or radio-friendly pop music.

Edited by jude111 - May 14 2013 at 14:00

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 13:39:49 +0000

Author: Dean
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 13:39

Originally posted by Svetonio

Originally posted by Dean

The two sections are not in one, they are seperate. The Who is in Proto Prog and Bowie is in Prog Related.

Frankly, I don't see what you are moaning about.

Yes I know it's separated on the PA' list of the bands but not separated forums for Proto Prog bands and Prog Related bands make it quite simple to be confused.

My point is very simple and please let me repeat that - Mr Bowie is artistic pop, not Progressive Rock at all.

Enough here.

O RLY.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 11:06:31 +0000

Author: dr wu23
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 11:06

I agree with Svetonio that The Who could be called proto prog.....but not that Townshend was any kind of electronic innovator. Many early bands of that time were using electronic sounds and keyboards...doesn't make them innovators per se.

But I also don't think Bowied is true prog.....prog related certainly, but not progressive rock imho.

Many here have mentioned artists/bands just as proggy that have not been included here.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 09:33:34 +0000

Author: jude111
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 09:33

Cool, I didn't realize till just now, reading Dean's post, that Bowie is on PA. I thought all this talk was about getting him on PA... I'm a happy camper :-)

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 08:38:27 +0000

Author: Guldbamsen
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 08:38

So this isn't progressive rock?

[TUBE]s2L4hL2IvUk[/TUBE]

[TUBE]ZY77zDzNmYw[/TUBE]

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 08:35:32 +0000

Author: Svetonio
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 08:35

Originally posted by Dean

�The two sections are not in one, they are seperate. The Who is in Proto Prog and Bowie is in Prog Related.

�

Frankly, I don't see what you are moaning about.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 07:32:10 +0000

Author: Dean
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 07:32

The two sections are not in one, they are seperate. The Who is in Proto Prog and Bowie is in Prog Related.

Frankly, I don't see what you are moaning about.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 07:25:33 +0000

Author: Svetonio
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 07:25

Originally posted by Guldbamsen

It would be nice, if you somehow could relegate to us your definition of prog Svetonio, because I don't think I understand where you are coming from.
You would like to see both The Who as well as the Grateful Dead included in proper prog categories, yet you deem Bowie unfit for PA altogether. You see, that makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever...

No denying that these bands were experimental at times, especially The Dead, but being experimental - heck even being progressive doesn't necessarily mean you should be on PA. Wutang Clan were progressive - do we really need to include them as well?

No artist / band can escape very far from their artistic nature. Mr Bowie has always been fashionable pop artist. So, at the time when prog rock was fresh and bold, he was linked with that; this link would be a good reason why Mr Bowie is in PA' Proto Prog / Prog Related section. A little problem is that that those two different sections are in one. Imo, Mr Bowie deserved to be in Prog Related, not in Proto Prog because he wasn't an inventor.

The Who were the inventors. All four of them, although in my previous posts I mentioned Mr Townshend only. The Who are among those group of acts that made it possible for progressive rock. The Who deserved 100% to be in Proto Prog section; also, they are Prog Related because of Her Majesty Quadrophenia. The similiar thing is with The Dead. As a part of Psychedelia movement what was one of the most important Art movement in the last century - what made it possible for progressive rock - the Dead deserved to be in Proto Prog section and in PR because of Blues For Allah, Terrapin Station and maybe Mars Hotel (my fav album by them).

It doesn't metter that Mr. Bowie is a pop singer-songwriter, not rock. This genre addopted so many acts who weren't played rock music, for example Miles Davis and Tangerine Dream; they were great inventors in Jazz and Electronic music, they were contemporaries, so prog rock audience accepted them and that is that.

Definition of Progressive Rock? I think that the name of the genre is that definition per se.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 03:55:26 +0000

Author: Guldbamsen
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 03:55

It would be nice, if you somehow could relegate to us your definition of prog Svetonio, because I don't think I understand where you are coming from.
You would like to see both The Who as well as the Grateful Dead included in proper prog categories, yet you deem Bowie unfit for PA altogether. You see, that makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever...

No denying that these bands were experimental at times, especially The Dead, but being experimental - heck even being progressive doesn't necessarily mean you should be on PA. Wutang Clan were progressive - do we really need to include them as well?

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 03:38:57 +0000

Author: Dean
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 03:38

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq

^ So, if you have an organ on marimba repeat, it does not give an electronic sound to the song?

The marimba is a percussion instrument, the organ is replicating that sound, just as it does on a Hammond. Using that is not an "electronic sound" as such. Townshend created a homage to Terry Riley inspired by Riley's A Rainbow in Curved Air, but he did not recreate the electronic music of Riley, he remained within populuar music strictures of standard chord structures (using the inbuilt one-key chords of the Lowery played arpeggio), he did not use the modal sequential serialism of Riley, nor did he use atonal layering or shifting rhythmns. One is a pioneer, the other is a pastiche. I love Baba O'Riley and it is my favourite Who track, but it is not the melding of electronic music and popular music that people claim it to be,

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 03:20:20 +0000

Author: Dayvenkirq
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 03:20

^ So, if you have an organ on marimba repeat, it does not give an electronic sound to the song?

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 03:05:46 +0000

Author: Dean
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 03:05

Originally posted by Svetonio

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Svetonio

Sorry, yesterday I owed for the answers to these two questions.

1. 1971 is a little late in the day to be claiming to pioneer electronic music in rock. Electronics, electronic music and synthesisers had been used by other pop and rock artists before then. Both Won't Get Fooled Again and Baba O'Riley used a Lowery Berkshire Deluxe TBO-1 electric organ to create the iconic "synth" rhythm - it is not a sequencer, but an arpeggiator, and it is not producing modal tone sequences, but arpeggiated chords to a samba rhythm. Rather than being electronic music they are pastiches of serialism [they are pastiches because he could not change individual notes in the sequence, he could only change the whole chord]. Yes, Townshend used a VCS3 to modify the sound of the electric organ, but he used it as an effects unit [filter] just like a guitarist would use wah-wah foot peddle, not as a source of electronic sound. What you have is something that sounds like electronic music, but is not. Townshend did not even pioneer the use of arpeggio rhythms in rock.

I'd really like to hear an example that the electronic music was incorporated so majesticly in a rock song(s) before Baba and WGFA; a YouTube video will be fine. Anyway, let's see a second video from above.

3. The two examples of "breaking the mold" songs are 2 and 3 short pop songs played in sequence, these we call medleys. Many bands had produced single songs that broke the "3 minute mold" long before Tommy.

These songs are not pop songs, they are Rock at its best. These live performed parts of Tommy are not medleys. I know what you call medley. This is medley:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY9sDk6NyQY (part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9kP5_NAsBw (part 2)

Nice try but no coconut.

Baba O'Riley and Won't Get Fooled Again are not incorporating electronic music, I don't need to produce anything to show that electronic music was incorporated into a[nother] rock song since those two songs didn't, you said "Mr Townshend who is an electronic music pioneer in rock music". He wasn't.

A medley is a longer sequence constructed from several shorter ones, it matters not whether it uses all or part of each song as long as they seamlessly seque together, Live renditions of short songs segued together do not "break the mold" on the three minute pop song as you claimed The Who did with Tommy. It is immaterial whether you think they are pop or rock songs, you said " the composer who broked 3-minute mould of the pop song with Tommy". He didn't.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 02:39:01 +0000

Author: Svetonio
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 02:39

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Svetonio

Sorry, yesterday I owed for the answers to these two questions.

�

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Tue, 14 May 2013 02:04:11 +0000

Author: Dean
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 14 2013 at 02:04

Originally posted by Svetonio

Sorry, yesterday I owed for the answers to these two questions.

Edited by Dean - May 14 2013 at 02:27

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Asia

Tue, 14 May 2013 01:36:02 +0000

Author: Moogtron III
Subject: Asia
Posted: May 14 2013 at 01:36

I love the debut album because it has strong melodies, powerful playing, great lyrics by mr. Wetton, atmospheric keyboard sounds by mr. Downes, the singing is very good...

Like richardh said: as long as you don't see it as a prog record...

I strongly dislike the second album, have tried one out one of the later albums (I think Aria) and didn't like it at all... so I just stopped exploring their later albums.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Asia

Tue, 14 May 2013 01:31:09 +0000

Author: richardh
Subject: Asia
Posted: May 14 2013 at 01:31

Originally posted by verslibre

P.S. The last song on Astra, "After The War," is definitely one of the best Asia songs. It's overlooked because many people can't get all the way through Side B.

Its such a long time since I listened to that album and I don't even own a copy anymore and can't even remember the song tbh.

Wetton was still performing during his 90 gigs 'Voice Of America' which is a decent song

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Mon, 13 May 2013 23:25:52 +0000

Author: Svetonio
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 13 2013 at 23:25

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Svetonio

Mr Bowie can't be "essential to the prog related sub"; he's not an act for example as The Who with Mr Townshend who is an electronic music pioneer in rock music, the guitarist who created power chord and the composer who broked 3-minute mould of the pop song with Tommy;

1. How, where and when The Who pioneered electronic music in rock music

[TUBE]yh4wkMZXONc[/TUBE]

[TUBE]O5voNyRmvXs[/TUBE]

3. Which Tommy songs in particular broke the 3-minute mould.

[TUBE]kcVmJGkMTgc[/TUBE]

[TUBE]xApvvkVPUxY[/TUBE]

Sorry, yesterday I owed for the answers to these two questions.

Edited by Svetonio - May 13 2013 at 23:32

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Asia

Mon, 13 May 2013 22:34:01 +0000

Author: infocat
Subject: Asia
Posted: May 13 2013 at 22:34

The debut was the first album I ever owned. My sister got it for me (at my request!) for Christmas 1982; age 13.
Still have a soft spot for it.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Top 10 Led Zeppelin

Mon, 13 May 2013 20:36:58 +0000

Author: Metalmarsh89
Subject: Top 10 Led Zeppelin
Posted: May 13 2013 at 20:36

These are my top eleven, listed alphabetically. I couldn't think of another one to take off the list.

Bring it on Home
Dazed and Confused
Four Sticks
Houses of the Holy
Over the Hills and Far Away
Ramble On
The Rover
The Song Remains the Same
Stairway to Heaven
Ten Years Gone
When the Levee Breaks

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Asia

Mon, 13 May 2013 19:19:50 +0000

Author: verslibre
Subject: Asia
Posted: May 13 2013 at 19:19

P.S. The last song on Astra, "After The War," is definitely one of the best Asia songs. It's overlooked because many people can't get all the way through Side B.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Asia

Mon, 13 May 2013 19:17:29 +0000

Author: verslibre
Subject: Asia
Posted: May 13 2013 at 19:17

Originally posted by cstack3

I don't like it much, except for one song, "Sole Survivor." That one is a keeper.

I like that one and "Cutting It Fine." However, at this point in time, I don't own that album or any Asia album in any format.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Asia

Mon, 13 May 2013 18:52:43 +0000

Author: otto pankrock
Subject: Asia
Posted: May 13 2013 at 18:52

I knew prog-rock was going down the pipes from about 1975 onwards. However, when they put out Asia, that was the final nail in the coffin.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Mon, 13 May 2013 17:48:32 +0000

Author: Barbu
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 13 2013 at 17:48

Originally posted by Man With Hat

Absolutely.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Mon, 13 May 2013 14:20:13 +0000

Author: chopper
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 13 2013 at 14:20

Originally posted by jude111

Please explain:

1. How, where and when The Who pioneered electronic music in rock music. Answer: Er.

Yes, you're exactly right! It was in the small village of Er, outside of Wheretoforshire, that a proverbial fruit from a proverbial tree fell on a young Townshend's proverbial head, giving him the idea to pioneer electronic music. This happened at precisely 10am or thereabouts. In ancient Persian, they say, "Er O'Clock."

2. When did Peter Townshend create the power chord exactly. Answer: Er.

Again, correct answer, for the same reason above. Moving on...

3. Which Tommy songs in particular broke the 3-minute mould. (Given that 3-minutes is a figure of speech so we can define the typical pop song as anything between 2:30 and 4:30). Answer: Er. I give up.

Right again! The six hour track "Underture" (reduced considerably to fit within the confines of the vinyl record) was originally titled "Er. I Give Up."

A+

Gee, I never had an A+ before, thanks.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Asia

Mon, 13 May 2013 13:43:06 +0000

Author: richardh
Subject: Asia
Posted: May 13 2013 at 13:43

Originally posted by HolyMoly

Originally posted by richardh

Later albums? Well Alpha was a big let down. A few good songs but it was a lot less appealing than the debut. Howe and Wetton were apparently at odds with each other and Wetton decided to leave. A press announcement was made that Greg Lake was the replacement ( very ironic if you know your prog history) and was to play in the up coming world wide live broadcast (later released on VHS as Asia in Asia). Clearly Lake was very uncomfortable singing Wetton's parts and the management asked Wetton to return which in turn resulted in Howe leaving to be replaced by Mandy Meyer. The resulting album Astra was barely any improvement on Alpha , more standard issue AOR.

I'd wondered what the history was behind Mandy Meyer replacing Howe. Thanks for that.

I bought "Astra" when it came out, and immediately fell for the lead single, "Go". It's a good tune.

I like 'Go' as well. Probably one of the catchiest tunes they recorded and easy to recall. The video is also memorable ..although perhaps not for the right reasons

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Asia

Mon, 13 May 2013 13:06:37 +0000

Author: jude111
Subject: Asia
Posted: May 13 2013 at 13:06

I was 14 when it came out. I didn't like it, and with each new song of theirs played on the radio, my dislike turned to full on antagonism. By this time, I had already been to a Rush concert, Floyd was my favorite band, and I had albums like Zeppelin IV and In the Court of the Crimson King. Asia was clearly sell-out corporate rock. Soon after, the Firm released their first album, and it became official: supergroups suck.

Edited by jude111 - May 13 2013 at 13:14

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Mon, 13 May 2013 12:53:15 +0000

Author: Slartibartfast
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 13 2013 at 12:53

Originally posted by Dean

Originally posted by Svetonio

Erm.

Please explain:

1. How, where and when The Who pioneered electronic music in rock music

2. When did Peter Townshend create the power chord exactly.

3. Which Tommy songs in particular broke the 3-minute mould. (Given that 3-minutes is a figure of speech so we can define the typical pop song as anything between 2:30 and 4:30)

Consider your answers carefully, use both sides of the paper if necessary.

The first thing that came to mind when I read this was that Who song. [TUBE]Wf0d2Rx52wI[/TUBE]

I, uh, can't explain why it came to mind.

Edited by Slartibartfast - May 13 2013 at 12:55

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Mon, 13 May 2013 12:30:56 +0000

Author: Stool Man
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 13 2013 at 12:30

The 3-minute pop song limitation was set by the old Jukebox companies, who (for obvious reasons) wanted popular songs to be short. They lost their tight grip on the music business in 1965, and Bob Dylan immediately wrote a six minute pop song called "Like A Rolling Stone". He recorded it in June 1965, while The Who were recording their debut album, more than three years before "Tommy"

Edited by Stool Man - May 13 2013 at 12:31

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Asia

Mon, 13 May 2013 11:59:18 +0000

Author: mageestout
Subject: Asia
Posted: May 13 2013 at 11:59

Originally posted by humor4u1959

How could you have not heard anything by Asia? Anyway, I quite like them. They're a pop/prog band, so if you were expecting complex music, I suggest you try U.K. or King Crimson.

The merits of Asia's first album are: great vocals, nice melodies, & interesting keyboard sounds. Remember, it was 1982. So, for what it is and when it came out, it's a solid album. Just my opinion.

I have to agree with you.
I remember being in middle school when it came out and it being "THE" record to get.
I even had a 3/4 length baseball shirt with the ASIA logo on it - apparently me and one other kid in the 7th grade were cool.

While they're not heavy-hitters like the groups the lads came from, its great "prog-pop" - which sometimes makes the casual listener find out more and by some kid listening to ASIA they may end up being an ELP, Yes or Crimson fan.

Hell, I even enjoy their last CD with all the original members ("XXX" released last year).

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Mon, 13 May 2013 11:58:46 +0000

Author: Dean
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 13 2013 at 11:58

"Underture" is not a pop song.

just sayin'

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Asia

Mon, 13 May 2013 11:57:34 +0000

Author: HolyMoly
Subject: Asia
Posted: May 13 2013 at 11:57

Originally posted by richardh

I'd wondered what the history was behind Mandy Meyer replacing Howe. Thanks for that.

I bought "Astra" when it came out, and immediately fell for the lead single, "Go". It's a good tune.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Asia

Mon, 13 May 2013 11:52:18 +0000

Author: rushfan4
Subject: Asia
Posted: May 13 2013 at 11:52

No surprises here, but I am a fan of all of their work. I do like the Payne era stuff as well as the classic lineup stuff. I have also been on PA long enough to not be surprised at all that they are not well-liked by many members. Que sera sera.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Stairway vs Kashmir

Mon, 13 May 2013 11:39:19 +0000

Author: Barsoom
Subject: Stairway vs Kashmir
Posted: May 13 2013 at 11:39

Kashmir- but the version played on the Page/Plant No Quarter album, with the whirling Dervishes and all the middle-eastern instrumentation in the middle.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Asia

Mon, 13 May 2013 11:33:48 +0000

Author: Barsoom
Subject: Asia
Posted: May 13 2013 at 11:33

I bought their debut album in 1982, purely on the strength of the cover art, and the fact that I recognised one of the band members on the back cover. (Carl Palmer- I hadn't got around to listening to Yes or KC at that time.) I instantly fell in love with the sound, and became a die-hard fan. For me, they were a gateway band, in that through researching the members, I became aware of all the other bands the members had played in. Some fans only stuck with the Wetton-era lineup, but I even loved the John Payne era stuff. Some of the music has flashes of prog brilliance, although much of it is mainstream AOR, but I love the stuff anyway, so sue me! I love melodic rock music that's well produced, has excellent musicianship, catchy tunes, and occasional flashes of prog, as well as true prog, so Asia fit the bill wonderfully for me. I got the chance to finally see them live in 2010 on the Omega tour, where I was blessed by possibly one of the best drum solos of Carl Palmer's career.

There are now two versions of the band- the 'original' Asia, which features Wetton, although Steve Howe has now left again to be replaced by Sam Coulson, and Asia Featuring John Payne, which has a twin-lead guitar sound that is just incredible. The 'original' band doesn't acknowledge any of the John Payne era stuff on their website (Although Geoff Downes is still quite proud of the work he did on that era) and don't play it live, but John Payne's band happily play anything from 1982 up to Silent Nation, plus their own new stuff.

Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge : Is David Bowie prog?

Mon, 13 May 2013 10:40:15 +0000

Author: jude111
Subject: Is David Bowie prog?
Posted: May 13 2013 at 10:40

Please explain:

1. How, where and when The Who pioneered electronic music in rock music. Answer: Er.

2. When did Peter Townshend create the power chord exactly. Answer: Er.

Again, correct answer, for the same reason above. Moving on...

Right again! The six hour track "Underture" (reduced considerably to fit within the confines of the vinyl record) was originally titled "Er. I Give Up."

A+

Edited by jude111 - May 13 2013 at 11:03