Split Enz are finally on the Archives!!!!

Heptade wrote: Anyone who would compare the Enz to Peter Paul and Mary needs to be strapped down and made to listen to Mental Notes twice a day. And by the way, the Finn brothers are musical geniuses.

And then put to bed listening to Time & Tide and realize you need a friend to help you make sense of it ...

As has been noted before in many threads, half the acts on this site could easily be said to not be prog at all, so why not? If having prog elements somewhere in your discography qualifies a band to be here, then sorry, the Enz are in!

Cheesecakemouse wrote: I'm so glad they're on it now, it was tough convincing everyone, but many thanks goes to Seantrane for thier addition. I hope many of you will discover thier albums and find them out for their uniqueness.

Vibrationbaby wrote: Round and round we go what is prog? What isn`t prog?

Moogtron III wrote: debrewguy wrote: Moogtron III wrote: Frippertron wrote: It just seems to be there are too many links to Progressive music, which on the whole is not at all prog.   Jazz Fusion is not Prog Rock for starters! (Bruford, Soft Machine etc)   Split Enz is pop, I have heard their old stuff, and sorry to say.. still pop.   You could start an argument on why INXS are not there in that case.  Same type of music as Split Enz.   I do like Split Enz btw, but having keyboards and guitar does not always equate to Prog Rock.   I do think Bruford's late '70's / early '80's albums are a prime example of prog rock, even when the albums are a blend with fusion.   Split Enz isn't here just on the archives because of the keyboards / guitars, but because of early albums like Mental Notes and Second Thoughts, which feature several long pieces with quite experimental, yet very melodious passages, which are much closer to prog than to pop. If the earlier albums weren't there, I suppose the argument to get them on PA would be much harder, I admit that much.     Again we're faced with the conundrum of accepting that even "prog" artists in most cases will have their music change over their career. Especially the acts that had or have a long term career. So we don't boot out Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, Rush for having moved to shorter more compact & concise songs. We instead focus on the lyrical content which is still more "advanced" than your typical pop hit. & the instrumentation still remains of the highest order. And if we say that we will determine a group's inclusion on more than a few albums or songs, then we can kiss most of prog-related, proto prog goodbye. Can you say Uriah Heep or Deep Purple ? Is Dark Side of the Moon really prog ? There is really only one song that is out there & that is because it consists of synthesizer noodling. The rest are melancholy & darkness put to music, often blues or folk based in nature. King Crimson's 80s work - isn't that really more new wave, kind of Talking Heads sort of music ? Jean Michel Jarre - Oxygene - disco synthesizer beats & playing ? Let's admit that inclusion or exclusion is really a community process arbritrated by Admin, and these two groups being composed of humans using subjective measures means that there willo be some contentious nominations. True, Split Enz do have a "pop" streak a mile wide. They are able to write excellent melodies sometimes sunny. sometimes dark. They don't write 20 minutes songs, although on Time & Tide they did put together a 4 song suite with intro & all. But if you go through their discography, you will find enough to content most prog fans. Not all, not even 75 %. But for those who were fans of the prog dinosaurs progress over the years, those people can find something to satisfy their prog taste if they listen with an open mind.   Okay, that is true as well. There's a big human factor in the decision whether a band / artist will be considered prog or not. Good point. You'd almost forget with all the people who are so sure wether a band is prog or not. Oops, sometimes I'm one of them, sorry 'bout that  .   As for the Enz albums, yes, I do think that there is more prog to them then just the extended songs of the different versions of the debut album. I think even a lot of the later, shorter songs have a definite prog streak. Indeed, the songs on Time and Tide, maybe my favourite album of the group, are song-based, but very innovative songs.   Prog or non prog? I think the term "prog-related" is a good buffer for the bands which are doubtful cases. For the rest: an open mind is what we need. And great music of The Enz

They actually did have a 15 minute epic called Nightmare Stampede during the Judd era, unfortunately it wasn't put on a studio album, you can only hear it live on the Box set Oddz and Enz

Cheesecakemouse wrote: Heptade wrote: Er, sorry about that discography...I guess I turned out to be too busy. thats ok,  Terra Australis and I were more than happy to sort it out in the end.

Gotta find that Nightmare Express song now ... and how can we have any hard feelings now that the Enz can find more frenz


Edited by debrewguy - May 17 2007 at 21:02

about twenty years ago I lent a guy at work the best of Kansas tape   , he asked me when he gave the tape back if I ever heard any early split enz,  I said I hadn't heard any early stuff by them, he said that they are not typical pop there's some prog elements and I may like them, but I dismissed the idea on account of tunes like "I see red" ... maybe I better check them out  

Edited by Snakes & Arrows - May 17 2007 at 21:19

Losendos wrote:   Split Enz is pop and shouldn't be here. Maybe a prog elements category could be added for bands which have a tiny element of prog but then you may end up with a collosal listing. Even prog related is going too far

As we have all said for at least fifty times LISTEN TO MENTAL NOTES


Edited by Cheesecakemouse - May 17 2007 at 21:43

Cheesecakemouse wrote: Moogtron III wrote: debrewguy wrote: Moogtron III wrote: Frippertron wrote: It just seems to be there are too many links to Progressive music, which on the whole is not at all prog.   Jazz Fusion is not Prog Rock for starters! (Bruford, Soft Machine etc)   Split Enz is pop, I have heard their old stuff, and sorry to say.. still pop.   You could start an argument on why INXS are not there in that case.  Same type of music as Split Enz.   I do like Split Enz btw, but having keyboards and guitar does not always equate to Prog Rock.   I do think Bruford's late '70's / early '80's albums are a prime example of prog rock, even when the albums are a blend with fusion.   Split Enz isn't here just on the archives because of the keyboards / guitars, but because of early albums like Mental Notes and Second Thoughts, which feature several long pieces with quite experimental, yet very melodious passages, which are much closer to prog than to pop. If the earlier albums weren't there, I suppose the argument to get them on PA would be much harder, I admit that much.     Again we're faced with the conundrum of accepting that even "prog" artists in most cases will have their music change over their career. Especially the acts that had or have a long term career. So we don't boot out Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, Rush for having moved to shorter more compact & concise songs. We instead focus on the lyrical content which is still more "advanced" than your typical pop hit. & the instrumentation still remains of the highest order. And if we say that we will determine a group's inclusion on more than a few albums or songs, then we can kiss most of prog-related, proto prog goodbye. Can you say Uriah Heep or Deep Purple ? Is Dark Side of the Moon really prog ? There is really only one song that is out there & that is because it consists of synthesizer noodling. The rest are melancholy & darkness put to music, often blues or folk based in nature. King Crimson's 80s work - isn't that really more new wave, kind of Talking Heads sort of music ? Jean Michel Jarre - Oxygene - disco synthesizer beats & playing ? Let's admit that inclusion or exclusion is really a community process arbritrated by Admin, and these two groups being composed of humans using subjective measures means that there willo be some contentious nominations. True, Split Enz do have a "pop" streak a mile wide. They are able to write excellent melodies sometimes sunny. sometimes dark. They don't write 20 minutes songs, although on Time & Tide they did put together a 4 song suite with intro & all. But if you go through their discography, you will find enough to content most prog fans. Not all, not even 75 %. But for those who were fans of the prog dinosaurs progress over the years, those people can find something to satisfy their prog taste if they listen with an open mind.   Okay, that is true as well. There's a big human factor in the decision whether a band / artist will be considered prog or not. Good point. You'd almost forget with all the people who are so sure wether a band is prog or not. Oops, sometimes I'm one of them, sorry 'bout that  .   As for the Enz albums, yes, I do think that there is more prog to them then just the extended songs of the different versions of the debut album. I think even a lot of the later, shorter songs have a definite prog streak. Indeed, the songs on Time and Tide, maybe my favourite album of the group, are song-based, but very innovative songs.   Prog or non prog? I think the term "prog-related" is a good buffer for the bands which are doubtful cases. For the rest: an open mind is what we need. And great music of The Enz They actually did have a 15 minute epic called Nightmare Stampede during the Judd era, unfortunately it wasn't put on a studio album, you can only hear it live on the Box set Oddz and Enz

Melomaniac wrote: I have never even heard the name of the band before they were inducted on PA.  I have absolutely no idea of what they sound like, though I am curious.  Anyone care to recommend me their best piece of wrok so I might investigate ?   Thanks !

Well, as you may have read here, most consider Mental Notes & Dizrhythmia as their most proggish. I also love Time & Tide, which is considered their latter day masterpiece. I believe Amazon.com and other sites may have the usual 30 second samples that would give you an idea.