Top 10 Style Changes that Resulted in Bad Albums |
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Nick Dilley
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 31 2012 Location: Mordor Status: Offline Points: 173 |
Topic: Top 10 Style Changes that Resulted in Bad Albums Posted: April 20 2012 at 09:17 |
Hey Everyone!
I was just having a discussion on the nature of prog with someone and the topic of bands experimenting with their established style came up. I was wondering what everyone thought (in a top 10 or other format) were the worst stylistic changes a band has made to their music. On the flip side, what are some of the better ones? I think a discussion of the "worst" will prompt more interesting discussion, but in the last few days I have read on PA about the positive change in Pink Floyd after Ummagumma and Atom Heart Mother, a Dream Theater fan dissatisfied with their more "straight metal" sound on Train of Thought, and I read on another forum (less prog-oriented) about a displeased dude and his 12-year-late-reaction to Megadeth's Risk. I'll post mine soon, when I've had a chance to think it over a bit, but for now...any thoughts? |
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dtguitarfan
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 24 2011 Location: Chattanooga, TN Status: Offline Points: 1708 |
Posted: April 20 2012 at 09:29 |
Haha, I love that you posted this. I'm the Dream Theater fan dissatisfied with Train of Thought to anyone who wonders, though I respect that they gave that a try and do enjoy some of the tracks. Hmm, I don't know if these guys qualify as part of the Progressive genre around here, but after Angra's album Temple of Shadows, they kinda went straight Power Metal and I don't ever listen to their two newest albums because of that. Same thing for Pagan's Mind's most recent album - previously they would throw in interesting time signatures and longer songs, but on their latest there is nothing interesting going on but generic power metal. I am not a fan of Pain of Salvation's "let's be a blues rock band" on Road Salt parts 1 and 2.
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spknoevl
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 14 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Status: Offline Points: 296 |
Posted: April 20 2012 at 09:35 |
Don't know if I can think of 10 but most memorably: Yes - after Relayer Genesis - after And Then There Were Three Gentle Giant - after Interview |
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dreadpirateroberts
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 27 2011 Location: AU Status: Offline Points: 952 |
Posted: April 20 2012 at 09:36 |
Deftones playing around with ProTools on 'Saturday Night Wrist.' Not an awful album, but I think it's one of their weaker ones, it seemed to dilute some of their focus in regards to songwriting, instead they focus a bit more on creating textures (not always a bad thing).
Will think about a prog band. |
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Nick Dilley
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 31 2012 Location: Mordor Status: Offline Points: 173 |
Posted: April 20 2012 at 11:54 |
I guess non-prog bands are cool for this thread too, and probably much easier to come up with!
+1 on the comments on Deftones and Pain of Salvation. When I heard Saturday Night Wrist I thought, "C'mon, you can do better than this Deftones!!" Also, for non-prog bands, when Megadeth returned to heavy stuff on The World Needs a Hero, I thought it was pretty great, but then United Abominations and Endgame sounded like rehashes of The System Has Failed...and it's been downhill from there, imo. As for positive changes in style, I think Silverchair made awesome progress in artistry along the way. Frogstomp was punk and rock and grunge, and Freakshow was grungy, and suitably alternative for that time, but after that, Neon Ballroom is awesome songwriting, and Diorama if pure symphonic prog (in short compositions). If you haven't heard Diorama, I recommend it for fellow proggers. I can't guarantee you'll like it, but I would bet you'll have more respect for Silverchair if you're not currently a fan! BTW, Dream Theater fans, I love the album Scenes from a Memory, which to me was a bit of a departure in style. My prog buddies mostly think that Scenes from a Memory is a weak album. What do you guys think? Even though I'm not a huge DT fan, that's one of my favorite albums! |
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Nick Dilley
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 31 2012 Location: Mordor Status: Offline Points: 173 |
Posted: April 20 2012 at 11:59 |
Also, here's another question:
I'm a big fan of people like Steve Vai and Satriani (well, sometimes Satriani), and I pretty much dig certain tracks off of certain albums, and never quite get into an entire album by either one. For a friend of mine who is HUGE into Satch, he thought Joe kept up his quality until Professor "Satchafunkilus and the Musterion of Rock." And some say, like Sampson, he lost his awesomeness when he lost his hair. I don't buy that, do u? Any challenges to these notions? |
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dreadpirateroberts
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 27 2011 Location: AU Status: Offline Points: 952 |
Posted: April 20 2012 at 12:13 |
^ Yeah, me too about the Deftones for sure. I give it a spin occasionally but not as much as their other albums.
And I definitely agree about silverchair's Diorama, a superb change from their early stuff, it's one of my favourite albums easy. |
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We are men of action. Lies do not become us.
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AlexDOM
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 02 2011 Location: Indianapolis Status: Offline Points: 775 |
Posted: April 20 2012 at 20:45 |
I'm a huge DT fan and love Scenes and also Train of Thought. One album for me would be Opeth's recent output Heritage. I mean if it was any other band I'd like it much more, but they totally abandoned what they're so good at ( progressive death metal and beauty). I do love the song Folklore on it though...
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ClemofNazareth
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Researcher Joined: August 17 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4659 |
Posted: April 20 2012 at 21:35 |
Unfortunate lineup changes and shift to a more pop-structured song format for Jefferson Airplane on 'Bark'. Abandoning strings for synthesizers (The Moody Blues on 'Octave' and ELO with 'Discovery'). Wishbone Ash trying to do country (poorly) on 'Locked In'. |
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 12788 |
Posted: April 20 2012 at 21:52 |
Jethro Tull and drum machines in the early 80s. The beginning of the end for me.
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colorofmoney91
Prog Reviewer Joined: March 16 2008 Location: Biosphere Status: Offline Points: 22774 |
Posted: April 20 2012 at 22:32 |
Style is spelled incorrectly in the thread title, which is a change in style that I don't agree with.
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Nick Dilley
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 31 2012 Location: Mordor Status: Offline Points: 173 |
Posted: April 20 2012 at 22:41 |
I am sorry, but when I talk music with like-minded people I just about pee my pants. I hold my breath and type as fast as I can. So mistakes are sure to happen! Yeah, the Opeth change was pretty big, but there are some keepers on there! And if it wasn't Opeth doing it, I bet tons of people would be into it. I do enjoy that album, though... That brings up an interesting point. When they did Damnation a lot of their old fans were kind of up in arms over it. I personally don't think it was a change in style per se, but more of a decision to take one aspect of their style (heard in all sorts of their songs) and take it to the extreme--i.e. writing and entire album in clean with clean vocals. Although you can't really call that metal, it totally had an Opeth AND a metal vibe to it. To the guy referring to Moody Blues--I can feel you their about the change to synth, but I am still a fan of the compositions overall after that change. I'm not clear on whether you feel the same way. Was it just a difference of taste in tone for you? Or did you feel a shift in quality accompanied that shift in tone? |
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 6798 |
Posted: April 20 2012 at 23:26 |
I'd say that whenever a prog band attempted to "go sexy," results were, well, less than optimal. Most famously....
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ClemofNazareth
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Researcher Joined: August 17 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4659 |
Posted: April 21 2012 at 06:46 |
For the most part I enjoyed the albums that followed 'Seventh Sojourn', especially 'Long Distance Voyager', but the loss of Pinder was definitely a downer for the band's lyrical and moody qualities. More than anything the movement away from the Mellotron and acoustic orchestral string arrangements took some of the sonic depth out of their music, and in general the 80s albums and their trending toward a more commercial sound (not just for the Moodies but for a lot of prog bands) was sad as much because it was so anathema to what 'prog rock' meant in the 70s. |
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"Peace is the only battle worth waging."
Albert Camus |
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snowsnow
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 09 2011 Location: Belper, England Status: Offline Points: 555 |
Posted: April 21 2012 at 07:49 |
Worst changes:
1) Mike Oldfiled - his drift away from the epic compositions (Hergest ridge, Incantations etc) to the more song-based material. Though he did get it back for the marvellous Amorak.
2) Queen - I loved this band around the Queen2/Sheer Heart Attack/A night of the opera period. Some of the pop stuff they produced later (which sold by the barrel load) left me completely cold.
Best changes:
1) Talk talk - going from pop to making the sublime Spirit of Eden and Laughing Stock albums.
2) Anathema - going from death metal to make the excellent - We're here because we're here and the new release.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26371 |
Posted: April 21 2012 at 10:00 |
I think he actually managed this change away from epic music pretty well and has added some music that is rather wonderfull in its own right especially Songs Of Distant Earth and Tres Lunas
He admitted that the experience of making Incantations and locking himself away in studio for 9 months was not doing his health much good. After that he put a band (well more an orchestra) together and toured and had some fun. It was never a cynical attempt to go commercial as it was with perhaps some other artists.
Amarok was very nice but it to me its quite different to say Ommadawn and fits the description of 'eclectic' better than any other albums he made. It doesn't fit the bill as 'epic' to my ears despite its length.
Edited by richardh - April 21 2012 at 10:02 |
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
Posted: April 21 2012 at 10:12 |
^Oldfield was always trying to find the skill of writing short songs. Not for commercial reasons particularly. So I agree with. I like all of his albums really.
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snowsnow
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 09 2011 Location: Belper, England Status: Offline Points: 555 |
Posted: April 21 2012 at 11:57 |
Interesting comments - and I do like some of the albums that followed such as Platinum and Crises. But it is the long pieces rather than the songs that standout for me. Given the choice between Tubular Bells, Hergest ridge, Ommadawn, Incantations or he more song orientated works like QE2, Five Miles out, Discovery, Earth moving, Heaven's open etc - I'll grab the first batch with unfettered enthusiasm!
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 6798 |
Posted: April 21 2012 at 14:48 |
....continuing my rant....prog musicians should be heard, not seen!! |
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Nick Dilley
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 31 2012 Location: Mordor Status: Offline Points: 173 |
Posted: April 21 2012 at 18:51 |
+1 on Anathema comment!! |
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