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Supertramp/Steely Dan Again: Try Again/Do It Again
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Poll Question: Which of these songs do you prefer?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
14 [32.56%]
29 [67.44%]
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Cristi View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 23 2019 at 00:19
Supertramp 
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Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

well said...  I think Countdown is a FABULOUS album with not a weak song on it but agree...  it was Pretzel Logic when we got the quintessential SD.

Katy Lied however will forever be my favorite Dan album...

Katy Lied rules......Thumbs Up

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Katy has always been my fave.
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Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

well said...  I think Countdown is a FABULOUS album with not a weak song on it but agree...  it was Pretzel Logic when we got the quintessential SD.

Katy Lied however will forever be my favorite Dan album...

Katy Lied rules......Thumbs Up
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There are many Supertramp songs I really love and I'd choose over pretty much all of SD, but Do It Again is great and Try It Again is just OK.
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Do it Again by faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar
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Voted the Dan though I love "Try Agian" and St's second album too.
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Dan again. 
New album!
http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385
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Supertramp, but it is as close as a Steely Dan vs Supertramp poll can get.
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Supertramp.
Still can't get past Dan's voice . . .
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Originally posted by YESESIS YESESIS wrote:

I actually quite liked that Supertramp song, I'd never heard it before(very pleasant musically). I obviously love Do It Again, but voted for Supertramp this time. 

Now if you're comparing Steely Dan's first 7 studio albums to the first 7 from literally any other artist then I like the Dan. My two favorites are The Royal Scam and Countdown to Ecstasy. Gaucho is right up there as well. 

Great poll Greg, good to see you back on here. You got me to vote against SD for the first time ever on here.   


Thanks so much, John, and it's great to see you at the site. I discovered Supertramp's first album because I wanted to recommend music to someone who disliked certain qualities of Supertramp. So, to quote a Greg other than me, "It was Supertramp before Supertramp figured out who they were" early days kind of music that I was looking for. I grew up knowing people with Breakfast in America, Crime of the Century, and Even in the Quietest Moments, but had never heard the debut.

On another note, great to see so much conversation going on in this thread. :)
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I actually quite liked that Supertramp song, I'd never heard it before(very pleasant musically). I obviously love Do It Again, but voted for Supertramp this time. 

Now if you're comparing Steely Dan's first 7 studio albums to the first 7 from literally any other artist then I like the Dan. My two favorites are The Royal Scam and Countdown to Ecstasy. Gaucho is right up there as well. 

Great poll Greg, good to see you back on here. You got me to vote against SD for the first time ever on here.   
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Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

It was Supertramp before Supertramp figured out who they were.
To me that is not a bad thing. Still Do it Again pretty much a masterpiece of sorts but I find Try Again to be quite a charming and enjoyable tune.  
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Well, in a way, the tight Banks leash on everybody else in the band also explains Genesis' popularity.  It caused a stronger emphasis on songwriting without the indulgences of Yes or ELP (which I would add were less frequent than what the critics accused them of).  There is more focus in Genesis albums.  In a way, they were the less atmospheric and more 'British' (and also more prog) version of Pink Floyd. But beyond songwriting, there has to be uncanny emotion, soul or at least aural beauty.  Gabriel and Hackett provided these qualities and without them, there was no longer much that was soulful about the band, at least for me there wasn't. I could say the same about Gentle Giant but their songs were also way more interesting than Genesis and they rocked harder so it doesn't matter so much to me.
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bingo.. therein lies my biggest problem with that incarnation of Genesis and of course teh bobbleheads.

in a nutshell.. 

functionally good.

well said and an excellent summation of 70's prog Genesis.
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Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

with him, without him. Would you not agree Madan that Hatchet didn't being Hackett until he left Genesis.  Outside of one shining album he was constrained within that band.  His talents overshadowed and underuntilized in the name of Banks and a more ensemble sound.  In that regardless of how talented he was withing Genesis he (nor any guitarist) was not that important and replaceable. Like with Rutherford himself. That was Banks's band musically....

I would agree that Hackett was able to express himself better solo than with Genesis but his presence at least offered something of aesthetic appeal (I would say value but that would be too strident an assessment LOL).  True that musically the band was all Banks but he didn't know how to get out of the way either because his own playing was functionally good and rarely more than that.
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with him, without him. Would you not agree Madan that Hatchet didn't being Hackett until he left Genesis.  Outside of one shining album he was constrained within that band.  His talents overshadowed and underuntilized in the name of Banks and a more ensemble sound.  In that regardless of how talented he was withing Genesis he (nor any guitarist) was not that important and replaceable. Like with Rutherford himself. That was Banks's band musically....

Edited by micky - July 22 2018 at 08:19
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I do think - albeit as a young-ish fan far removed from the goings on of the late 70s - that they didn't have much choice and were hardly alone in jumping ship.  For me, it's just that Hackett's playing and in particular his beautiful guitar tone are the most attractive aspect about the band.  Without him, well, you still have Collins playing wonderful drums but over increasingly simpler music and Rutherford's nice bass and that's it.  Collins singing is dispensable for me and Banks synth a minor irritant at best.

Edited by rogerthat - July 22 2018 at 08:13
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Points: 46843 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2018 at 07:37
yeah I think the whole fundamentalist streak prevalent in 'prog fan' plays a lot into the reactions of the evolution of some of these bands.

Genesis's sin wasn't as much making great pop music, great music is great music regardless of the style, but in not remaining true the prog faith. A subtle notion but a very valid one. 
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Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

the line between pop and AOR is a very very fine line.  Want to see what happens when fans think a prog band has sold out... and not gone what one might consider pop.. but AOR.  Check out Rush. Granted they didn't lose all their fans, but there is a divide in their fans who rue teh day Geddy ever discovered a keyboard, stopped shrieking and  started writing cute didies that made it into on MTV.

Sure, I am just saying Yes not jumping so far into the most absurd and annoying manifestations of 80s music made it easier for fans to embrace 90125.  Plus, Yes line up changes were so frequent it quickly ceased to become a divisive issue.  For Genesis, the loss of first Gabriel and then Hackett both turned older fans away from the band and continues to this day to be a dividing line for people who get into Genesis today.  I too don't have much interest in what happened from And Then There Were Three.  But it's more of indifference rather than a strong dislike.
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the line between pop and AOR is a very very fine line.  Want to see what happens when fans think a prog band has sold out... and not gone what one might consider pop.. but AOR.  Check out Rush. Granted they didn't lose all their fans, but there is a divide in their fans who rue teh day Geddy ever discovered a keyboard, stopped shrieking and  started writing cute didies that made it into on MTV.

Edited by micky - July 22 2018 at 07:20
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