Author |
Topic Search Topic Options
|
iluvmarillion
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 09 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 3236
|
Posted: May 21 2020 at 00:05 |
Really don't like this revisionism going on with Roger Waters regarding who wrote what on Comfortably Numb. It's entirely between Roger Waters and Dave Gilmour and has nothing to do with Pink Floyd fans like myself who don't want to know. His feud has nothing to do with us.
|
|
ssmarcus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 05 2019
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 261
|
Posted: May 21 2020 at 06:28 |
I dont know much about Roger's internal squabbling with Pink Floyd but the dude routinley does and says things that are straight antisemitic.
|
|
ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
|
Posted: May 21 2020 at 08:32 |
ssmarcus wrote:
I dont know much about Roger's internal squabbling with Pink Floyd but the dude routinley does and says things that are straight antisemitic. |
For the sake of civil discourse, I think Roger Waters a self pitying attention seeking hippy sh*t stirrer but that's really beside the point. Why is it that anyone who criticizes Israel's foreign policy is branded anti-semitic? This would be like blaming the Catholic Church for the atrocities perpetrated by the IRA. It's perfectly fine to take issue with a colonialist policy that has resulted in illegal occupation of Palestinian territory, blockade of the Gaza strip, failure to allow post-war Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and ineligibility of Palestinians in occupied territories to vote in Israeli elections. These views are not just held by a millionaire rock star but by the United Nations and mainstream European churches who also consider the annexation of East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights in 1980 by the Jerusalem Law and the Golan Heights Law as ultra vires and unrecognized as binding by any other nation. Fighting back when you're invaded by what happens to be another race doesn't make you a racist. Grow up.
Edited by ExittheLemming - May 21 2020 at 08:40
|
|
Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10424
|
Posted: May 21 2020 at 09:48 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
ssmarcus wrote:
I dont know much about Roger's internal squabbling with Pink Floyd but the dude routinley does and says things that are straight antisemitic. |
For the sake of civil discourse, I think Roger Waters a self pitying attention seeking hippy sh*t stirrer but that's really beside the point. Why is it that anyone who criticizes Israel's foreign policy is branded anti-semitic? This would be like blaming the Catholic Church for the atrocities perpetrated by the IRA. It's perfectly fine to take issue with a colonialist policy that has resulted in illegal occupation of Palestinian territory, blockade of the Gaza strip, failure to allow post-war Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and ineligibility of Palestinians in occupied territories to vote in Israeli elections. These views are not just held by a millionaire rock star but by the United Nations and mainstream European churches who also consider the annexation of East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights in 1980 by the Jerusalem Law and the Golan Heights Law as ultra vires and unrecognized as binding by any other nation. Fighting back when you're invaded by what happens to be another race doesn't make you a racist. Grow up.
|
To all that I would like to add that a lot of Jewish people all around the world disapprove of the Israeli government's treatment of Palestine. I'm certainly not defending Roger though, I think the man is beyond annoying from a long time ago.
Edited by Easy Money - May 21 2020 at 09:49
|
Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446
|
|
DarksideofCollages
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 20 2020
Location: Santo Domingo
Status: Offline
Points: 26
|
Posted: May 21 2020 at 09:59 |
I am with Roger! Pink Floyd is not his band. That is soo ridicules !! It is Waters words that he sings in concerts!!! so pathetic!!!
|
https://darksideofabel.blogspot.com/
|
|
DarksideofCollages
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 20 2020
Location: Santo Domingo
Status: Offline
Points: 26
|
Posted: May 21 2020 at 10:02 |
So you are calling Waters a Racist!!
|
https://darksideofabel.blogspot.com/
|
|
ssmarcus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 05 2019
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 261
|
Posted: May 21 2020 at 12:48 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
ssmarcus wrote:
I dont know much about Roger's internal squabbling with Pink Floyd but the dude routinley does and says things that are straight antisemitic. |
For the sake of civil discourse, I think Roger Waters a self pitying attention seeking hippy sh*t stirrer but that's really beside the point. Why is it that anyone who criticizes Israel's foreign policy is branded anti-semitic? This would be like blaming the Catholic Church for the atrocities perpetrated by the IRA. It's perfectly fine to take issue with a colonialist policy that has resulted in illegal occupation of Palestinian territory, blockade of the Gaza strip, failure to allow post-war Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and ineligibility of Palestinians in occupied territories to vote in Israeli elections. These views are not just held by a millionaire rock star but by the United Nations and mainstream European churches who also consider the annexation of East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights in 1980 by the Jerusalem Law and the Golan Heights Law as ultra vires and unrecognized as binding by any other nation. Fighting back when you're invaded by what happens to be another race doesn't make you a racist. Grow up.
|
Rather than follow you into the black hole that it is a discussion about Arab aggression towards Jews exercising their right to self determination and settling in their historic homeland, I will simply point out that Roger Waters has been called out by reputable antisemitism watch dog organizations for using antisemitic imagery in his performances and espousing conspiritorial views in relation to Jewish influence in business in politics. Rather than clarify and apologize for these things, Waters doubles down.
Edited by ssmarcus - May 21 2020 at 12:54
|
|
Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17733
|
Posted: May 21 2020 at 13:13 |
My biggest problem with Roger Waters is not about his political views, but that he divulges them constantly and still expects the fans to like his music and lyrics today, or agree with him. I could give a rats a$$ about his political beliefs, views or opinions. But when for example in his new Mother video he answers the line "Mother should I trust the government?" with his mouthing and facial expressions......Ask the question but then leave the answer/opinion up to the listener, that's more powerful than making a statement.
|
|
|
M27Barney
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136
|
Posted: May 21 2020 at 13:28 |
The politics of the middle east is complex. The petty politics of the three monotheistic religions which are all based on vacuous myths is to blame...Roger Waters is guilty of attacking the validity of the claims to land by Jewish settlers against the claims of other indiginous peoples...does that make him anti-semitic? Another can of worms opened...
|
|
Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 19740
|
Posted: May 21 2020 at 13:47 |
ssmarcus wrote:
I dont know much about Roger's internal squabbling
with Pink Floyd but the dude routinley does and says things that are
straight antisemitic. |
Waters is anti-zionist, not anti-semituic.
But this nuance probably flies by your head withpout you even noticing it did.
Catcher10 wrote:
My biggest problem with Roger Waters is not about his political views, but that he divulges them constantly and still expects the fans to like his music and lyrics today, or agree with him. I could give a rats a$$ about his political beliefs, views or opinions.But when for example in his new Mother video he answers the line "Mother should I trust the government?" with his mouthing and facial expressions......Ask the question but then leave the answer/opinion up to the listener, that's more powerful than making a statement. |
Rewatch the video, reading his lips and you'll hear: "No f**king Way"
|
|
MortSahlFan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 01 2018
Location: US
Status: Offline
Points: 2840
|
Posted: May 21 2020 at 14:55 |
Roger Waters is a great man. And as for "Comfortably Numb", he's right.. It's on record. You can hear audio of David singing scat with the D-A part, and Roger filled it with lyrics, but also the music (Bm-A-G-F#-Em), melody and lyrics.
Roger is a humanitarian. I think so lowly of anyone who throws the "Why can't he just stick to..?" (Why can't you just stick it up your ass?)... Roger has ALWAYS been political (read the lyrics, again), and has always been anti-Establishment, outspoken, and a supporter of human rights, and not only when it was trendy. I think its because of the "trendy justice whoriors".. When it comes to Palestine, "both sides" are not equal - it's completely one-sided.... Everyone on Earth understands this, except my home country of the US, which I can't understand. There's the same bullsh*t media everywhere else, but people know its bullsh*t. I think its self-censorship more than anything - people are too chickensh*t to speak their mind like Roger, so maybe they're just jealous.
As for the latest sh*t, I do think its silly for the Pink Floyd website to advertise Polly Samson's sh*tty books which never got any attention until the PINK FLOYD influence. David wouldn't even put up a link of Roger's. Roger wrote most of the music, 99% of the lyrics, all the themes/concepts, which is probably another reason I not only admire him, but will defend him, and anyone else who gets shafted because of ignorance.
|
https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition
https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List
|
|
Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17733
|
Posted: May 21 2020 at 20:59 |
Sean Trane wrote:
ssmarcus wrote:
I dont know much about Roger's internal squabbling
with Pink Floyd but the dude routinley does and says things that are
straight antisemitic. |
Waters is anti-zionist, not anti-semituic.
But this nuance probably flies by your head withpout you even noticing it did.
Catcher10 wrote:
My biggest problem with Roger Waters is not about his political views, but that he divulges them constantly and still expects the fans to like his music and lyrics today, or agree with him. I could give a rats a$$ about his political beliefs, views or opinions.But when for example in his new Mother video he answers the line "Mother should I trust the government?" with his mouthing and facial expressions......Ask the question but then leave the answer/opinion up to the listener, that's more powerful than making a statement. |
Rewatch the video, reading his lips and you'll hear: "No f**king Way" |
Yes I know....That's his opinion to not trust govt and we all know what he means.....That's my point, I don't care what his belief is. Leave the lyrical meaning up to the listener in the song for more impact, or he needs to change it from a question to a statement.
|
|
|
Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17733
|
Posted: May 21 2020 at 21:18 |
MortSahlFan wrote:
Roger Waters is a great man. And as for "Comfortably Numb", he's right.. It's on record. You can hear audio of David singing scat with the D-A part, and Roger filled it with lyrics, but also the music (Bm-A-G-F#-Em), melody and lyrics.
Roger is a humanitarian. I think so lowly of anyone who throws the "Why can't he just stick to..?" (Why can't you just stick it up your ass?)... Roger has ALWAYS been political (read the lyrics, again), and has always been anti-Establishment, outspoken, and a supporter of human rights, and not only when it was trendy. I think its because of the "trendy justice whoriors".. When it comes to Palestine, "both sides" are not equal - it's completely one-sided.... Everyone on Earth understands this, except my home country of the US, which I can't understand. There's the same bullsh*t media everywhere else, but people know its bullsh*t. I think its self-censorship more than anything - people are too chickensh*t to speak their mind like Roger, so maybe they're just jealous.
As for the latest sh*t, I do think its silly for the Pink Floyd website to advertise Polly Samson's sh*tty books which never got any attention until the PINK FLOYD influence. David wouldn't even put up a link of Roger's. Roger wrote most of the music, 99% of the lyrics, all the themes/concepts, which is probably another reason I not only admire him, but will defend him, and anyone else who gets shafted because of ignorance.
|
Well Roger left Pink Floyd, due to creative differences in 1985. Then the legal fight started which was really about money and Roger claiming Pink Floyd was broke and was creatively spent, so it needed to be broken up. After the settlement Pink Floyd continued and Roger went on his way......Roger has nothing to do with Pink Floyd after 1987, he retained rights to The Wall hence we will have Reissue Wall Tours till the end of time, he is not Pink Floyd so he has no right to be on the Pink Floyd website....He just thinks that David and Mason are fine with it now since it has been 33yrs.
His website should be called "Roger Waters-I'm The Wall"
|
|
|
M27Barney
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136
|
Posted: May 22 2020 at 00:36 |
Isn't the relationship betwixt Waters and Gilmour another example of the Dunning-Kruger effect? The two made some great music together in the 70's....their squabble is irrelevant to me...
|
|
Cinema
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 25 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 487
|
Posted: May 22 2020 at 08:11 |
For many many years Waters tried to destroy Pink Floyd through various legal actions and other means. If I were Gilmour, I'd tell him to pound salt too. Waters has more than earned it.
|
|
someone_else
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 02 2008
Location: Going Bananas
Status: Offline
Points: 24047
|
Posted: May 22 2020 at 08:24 |
ssmarcus wrote:
ExittheLemming wrote:
ssmarcus wrote:
I dont know much about Roger's internal squabbling with Pink Floyd but the dude routinley does and says things that are straight antisemitic. |
For the sake of civil discourse, I think Roger Waters a self pitying attention seeking hippy sh*t stirrer but that's really beside the point. Why is it that anyone who criticizes Israel's foreign policy is branded anti-semitic? This would be like blaming the Catholic Church for the atrocities perpetrated by the IRA. It's perfectly fine to take issue with a colonialist policy that has resulted in illegal occupation of Palestinian territory, blockade of the Gaza strip, failure to allow post-war Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and ineligibility of Palestinians in occupied territories to vote in Israeli elections. These views are not just held by a millionaire rock star but by the United Nations and mainstream European churches who also consider the annexation of East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights in 1980 by the Jerusalem Law and the Golan Heights Law as ultra vires and unrecognized as binding by any other nation. Fighting back when you're invaded by what happens to be another race doesn't make you a racist. Grow up.
|
Rather than follow you into the black hole that it is a discussion about Arab aggression towards Jews exercising their right to self determination and settling in their historic homeland, I will simply point out that Roger Waters has been called out by reputable antisemitism watch dog organizations for using antisemitic imagery in his performances and espousing conspiritorial views in relation to Jewish influence in business in politics. Rather than clarify and apologize for these things, Waters doubles down.
|
He has been ranked #4 in a top 10 of antisemitism, released by the Simon Wiesenthal Center some 6 or 7 years ago. But his alleged antisemitic imagery does not bug me too much - it just fits in the story. It's just the fact that the Protocols of the Sages of Zion still seem to resonate with some people and the whole BDS thing for which he pushed himself as the main spokesman that I find annoying.
|
|
|
DarksideofCollages
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 20 2020
Location: Santo Domingo
Status: Offline
Points: 26
|
Posted: May 22 2020 at 08:33 |
[QUOTE=Cinema]For many many years Waters tried to destroy Pink Floyd through various legal actions and other means. If I were Gilmour, I'd tell him to pound salt too. Waters has more than earned it.[/QUOTE How can you say that? when the man is Pink Floyd even though legally he can't tour as pink Floyd without Mason as Gilmour can as he tours with Mason, but for God's sake that is mostly his music and lyrics. If He wants to destroy the band that he gave his soul and mind, then why he keeps visiting those songs he wrote during the Floyd' years? Because that's what the fans wants to hear? and where the money is? Well it is his music and words. He is entitled. I think Guilmour is been such an ass to Waters.
|
https://darksideofabel.blogspot.com/
|
|
DarksideofCollages
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 20 2020
Location: Santo Domingo
Status: Offline
Points: 26
|
Posted: May 22 2020 at 08:37 |
Anything Related to Floyd he is entitled to.
|
https://darksideofabel.blogspot.com/
|
|
Cristi
Special Collaborator
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams
Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Offline
Points: 41771
|
Posted: May 22 2020 at 09:00 |
DarksideofCollages wrote:
[QUOTE=Cinema]For many many years Waters tried to destroy Pink Floyd through various legal actions and other means. If I were Gilmour, I'd tell him to pound salt too. Waters has more than earned it.[/QUOTE How can you say that? when the man is Pink Floyd even though legally he can't tour as pink Floyd without Mason as Gilmour can as he tours with Mason, but for God's sake that is mostly his music and lyrics. If He wants to destroy the band that he gave his soul and mind, then why he keeps visiting those songs he wrote during the Floyd' years? Because that's what the fans wants to hear? and where the money is? Well it is his music and words. He is entitled. I think Guilmour is been such an ass to Waters. |
Waters turned from a driving force to dictator really quickly, marginalizing first Wright, and then the other two by the time The Final Cut came out. I have never understood how Wright did not have writing credits on WYWH (well except Shine On, what about the rest of the songs, plenty of keys, don't tell me Waters played those, I don't believe you) and Animals (on Dogs and Sheep, no Wright?).
Also if you listen to The Wall demos and what ended up on the album, Waters was very lucky with Gilmour, Ezrin and Kamen arranging a lot of songs.
And if you look on his solo work, again, Waters had to surround himself with competent musicians, ffs he invited Clapton to play with him.
As much as I like Floyd and Waters' solo albums, he's often been a bit dooshy, sorry...
Edited by Cristi - May 22 2020 at 09:28
|
|
lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13365
|
Posted: May 22 2020 at 09:18 |
Cristi wrote:
DarksideofCollages wrote:
[QUOTE=Cinema]For many many years Waters tried to destroy Pink Floyd through various legal actions and other means. If I were Gilmour, I'd tell him to pound salt too. Waters has more than earned it.[/QUOTE How can you say that? when the man is Pink Floyd even though legally he can't tour as pink Floyd without Mason as Gilmour can as he tours with Mason, but for God's sake that is mostly his music and lyrics. If He wants to destroy the band that he gave his soul and mind, then why he keeps visiting those songs he wrote during the Floyd' years? Because that's what the fans wants to hear? and where the money is? Well it is his music and words. He is entitled. I think Guilmour is been such an ass to Waters. |
Waters turned from a driving force to dictator really quickly, marginalizing first Wright, and then the other two by the time The Final Cut came out. I have never understood how Wright did not have writing credits on WYWH (well except Shine On, what about the rest of the songs, plenty of keys, don't tell me Waters played those, I don't believe you) and Animals (on Dogs and Sheep, no Wright?).
Also if you listen to The Wall demos and what eneded up on the album, Waters was very lucky with Gilmour, Ezrin and Kamen arranging a lot of songs.
And if you look on his solo work, again, Waters had to surround himself with competent musicians, ffs he invited Clapton to play with him.
As much as I like Floyd and Waters' solo albums, he's often been a bit dooshy, sorry... |
Wright, by his own admission, fell into a creative lapse period in the time you are talking about. He didn’t blame it entirely on Waters.
|
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
|
|