the problem with modern day music |
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Necrotica
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I often find myself agreeing with this. Even a lot of today's metal is extremely overproduced, which takes the edge off of what's otherwise supposed to be intense or brutal music. It's a problem that's especially prevalent in metalcore and djent music right now, which is why Blood Incantation's 2019 album Hidden History of the Human Race is one of my favorite records of the past few years. The band intentionally modeled it after a 70s prog album, even down to the inclusion of a side-long epic and entirely analog production. You really hear the imperfections in the recording, which just adds to the charm of the record even more
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Won't you take me down, to the underground Why oh why, there is no light And if I can't sleep, can you hold my life https://www.youtube.com/@CocoonMasterBrendan-wh3sd |
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Awesoreno
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 07 2019 Location: Culver City, CA Status: Offline Points: 2906 |
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Thank you. Beautifully restating what I was saying earlier. Yes, I agree that in general (and not just for music) attention spans have diminished. But I don't think that has as much of an effect on the pool of listenership for prog as OP thinks. I still am of the opinion that more people listen to prog now than in the "classic" period. More people listen to more kinds of music in general. People were not somehow more open-minded back then. And based on your point (that I agree with) that having limited access and a smaller pool of records to choose from could make one focus more on what one has, that certainly would NOT imply that this inherent limitation led to MORE open-mindedness.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16449 |
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Hi, I'm not sure how this can possibly be true, when more fans, than ever, are participating in many of these discussions, as well as other bits and pieces. What may have happened, is that folks with better/higher attention spans, are likely less interested in making comments about something that ... sometimes is just absurd ... and the question is meant to confuse people more than it is to help define and clarify the situation. If you are a listener, you will listen ... plain and simple ... and if you are a fan, the post just made on this one band will be totally forgotten next week and replaced by another band! While one can say that this person heard a thing or two, the chances are that they did not take an in depth listen or their change of taste and appreciation would not have been gone a few days later ... and this is one of the things that we need to clarify to "fans" ... when their tastes change over time. For many of us, that have been onto this for 40 or 50 years, there is no "change" per se, and preferences tend to go by wayside, since now you listen for the appreciation of the music, and not for the one thing that you liked in your teen days! We all had that issue!
I'm not sure about this, specially when there are so many progressive bands leading towards the metal side of it, that have come up in the past 20 years. The listenership is all over the place and I'm not sure that we can find a conclusive idea as to what one hears or not ... and as soon as we do, someone will bust that theory to smithereens.
How the fudge could we be not open minded when we ended up finding the vary bands that are now considered the top of the progressive music world. Your comment needs refining ... since the time and place was incredibly open minded and diverse to the point of incredible and insane. Today, by comparison, there really is not as much diversity as there was then, specially considering the many new bands that are added to PA every day ... half of them sound the same as many others ... WE DIDN'T HAVE THAT ISSUE THEN ... and we were all misty eyed when we heard something incredible. Today, this ability to be so different as to be able to blow over an audience is not happening and many fans depend on the stupid smog and fire shows and low class 2nd rate lighting of many shows so they can think they are seeing something great. They are seeing something they have never seen at home or in school, for sure ... but it being considered one of the best? The listing and number of bands (see the post about the number of old bands reissued ... it should wake you up huge!!!) from the early days, show a lot more creativity and diversity than you do now ... sort of like that writer that said ... they have a democracy but they don't want to use it!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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DreamTechPlus
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 12 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Well first of all, the reason you don't listen to it isn't because it "isn't good", just that you don't like it. This is where I have the issue, any time you try to make an objective statement like that it feels like a lazy way to big up your own personal preferences. As for there being a lack of aesthetic dialogue surrounding pop music? Not to put too fine a point on it but, that's insane. You must not be paying that much attention to insinuate first that there is absolutely no dialogue about the artistic merits of pop and the implication that said discussions are the exclusive right of "artistic music", whatever that is. The reason I can't take this position seriously is because it's not a considered opinion that comes from an informed place. It's you attempting to pass off open and flagrant bias as objective fact with a selective personal metric. You don't like pop music. That's your prerogative, go bananas. It lacks a critical culture? Provably untrue, you just don't see it. As a final point, progressive rock isn't exactly the "music for music's sakes" genre either. It also has a pretty prominent focus on cults of personality and cultural imagery. Because you like the music you're willing to consider that a tertiary point, much the same as I can about pop music imagery. Love, DreamTechPlus.
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uduwudu
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I think Queensryche had a pertinent observation with perceptions quickening. Not diminishing. Some may recall that prog fans on yahoo groups found that they weren't the only ones into Yes, KC et al. Many thought they were and had said so. From that time the sub- genre ... prog... enjoyed a massive resurgence due to on line social interaction. People are a summation of their contradictions rather than resolutions. Awful productions and mastering have now become superb productions and now people want their imperfections back... Fine, go and pick up a stack of records from a second hand music store and listen to everything two generations down, snap crackle, pop. We talk ourselves into social approval. There is a some fine music now and then. People marveled over the exquisite sounds of Blow By Blow and Dark Side. But quality has improved since; have listeners or the equipment they use? Every so often, me included I've found my collection sonically outdated. Very tedious. I think the imperfections are a sign people want a quality human interaction experience rather than a musical one. The music is the vehicle. Well, it used to be. Now it's a destination. |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20531 |
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Edited by SteveG - June 23 2022 at 05:43 |
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DreamTechPlus
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 12 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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You literally weren't making a subjective point, girl. You said "Commercial music is not good. If it was, I would listen to it. I cannot understand how any critical analysis could be ascribed to modern pop music. Critical of what? Modern pop music is a cultural phenomenon imbued with social significance for it's adherents and is outside the bounds of most artistic or aesthetic criticisms. That's my two cents." and then said "Discuss". I don't know what kind of response you expected. I objected to you taking a subjective opinion and trying to puff it up as some truth, now you're claiming that you were just voicing your opinion the whole time? Girl, don't play that. Be consistent. Love, DreamTechPlus.
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SteveG
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16449 |
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Hi, And sometimes, really poor comments. You really think that any of us in the 60's and 70's had any issues with the snap, crackle and pop? You should check the top records listed for "Progressive Music" ... and that ought to tell you that we listened a lot more, and with more dedication and appreciation than the glut-ridden folks of today ... specially when it is really easy to tell via their comments if they even bothered to listen to the whole thing or not. I even wonder how many of them EVER heard Stairway to Heaven! To them it's probably too long anyway and too weird with so many senseless changes! RIGHT ... Snap, Crackle and Pop ... belongs in your morning cereal, and this mention about the music we grew up with is not exactly a good one. I have never heard anyone complain about CTTE, or TAAB or Tarkus ... because of the snap, crackle and pop ... but modern non-listeners think that it ruined the music ... and they don't get it ... the music survived it better than their idea!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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DreamTechPlus
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 12 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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You wanna play the victim like I'm being elitist for calling out your elitism? You do you, honey boo boo. I'm not going to be a party to it no more.
Love, DreamTechPlus. Edited by DreamTechPlus - June 23 2022 at 06:59 |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16449 |
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Hi,
We need a new thread. Somehow, the idea/concept of subjective/objective is being set to be real instead of imaginary, since it mostly has absolutely nothing to do with the origin of the piece ... and the fan (herself/himself!) has no right to say that their idea is more important than the artistic interpretation. Get over it folks! Stop getting involved in kids discussions! We could call it Nitup'ism now!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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DreamTechPlus
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 12 2015 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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No need. It's done.
Love, DreamTechPlus.
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 6803 |
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Sorry, not even close!
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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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Grumpyprogfan
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 09 2019 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 10145 |
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^You would say the same to anyone's choices. For you, no one will ever be better than Fripp, Chick or Chris. Cool, but only your opinion.
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Awesoreno
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 07 2019 Location: Culver City, CA Status: Offline Points: 2906 |
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You could have asked Chick's opinion of Hiromi when he was still alive. He was blown away.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20531 |
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Edited by SteveG - June 25 2022 at 09:58 |
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Necrotica
Special Collaborator Honorary Colaborator Joined: July 28 2015 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 3214 |
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Why the hell would you even comment if you're not going to elaborate? You're not adding anything constructive to the conversation
Edited by Necrotica - June 25 2022 at 07:17 |
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Take me down, to the underground
Won't you take me down, to the underground Why oh why, there is no light And if I can't sleep, can you hold my life https://www.youtube.com/@CocoonMasterBrendan-wh3sd |
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SteveG
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Edited by SteveG - June 25 2022 at 07:23 |
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olehvgrn
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I think it's cool to have such quick access to songs. Also because of this, many young brand new singers can publish their music and find like-minded people
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fathomer1963
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The advent of streaming music via the internet was always going to lead down the current road. As soon as the record company's clocked on to the potential of simply downloading tracks rather than having to go through the 'hassle' of buying whole albums, rather than simply moaning about piracy, they made sure the idea of a music scene that was wide ranging, multi faceted and bursting with new ideas was doomed. The record biz (having worked with the big five (as it was) reps I found the biz has no interest, whatsoever, in promoting anything bar the most bland, easily accessible and unchallenging music available. Modern music has morphed into the equivalent of Carlsberg/Fosters. All that matters to them is the bottom line - dollars. Artists showing off their chops!? Bah, humbug. Robert Fripp, in one of the notes to the KC Steven Wilson remixes, makes some interesting points. These being, that during the 1960's and 1970's, the music business saw a revolution, and characters emerged at the very top that wanted to see, new, exciting, challenging music promoted and succeed in the music market. In the 1980's, the money men started to take over, and the top men increasingly left it down to them, resulting in music becoming more and more commercial. By the 1990's and the new century, Fripp states that the money men had been replaced by hard faced PR merchants who really had no interest whatsoever in what was 'good', only in what sells. And what sells is plastic pop. Rock, in all its forms lives on, but only due to a hardcore of people unwilling to let it die, and in the face of open record company hostility.
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