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bhikkhu View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2007 at 10:33
I wouldn't mind donating at all. Although, I don't think getting rid of the banner ads is necessary. What is needed is some discretion as to who is placing the ads. For instance, no audio advertising. This is a music site. A lot of us are trying to hear the samples, or playing music already. I think if some screening is done, a lot of these problems could be averted.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2007 at 15:19
I agree thoroughly with the points raised here, especially those by Angelo.  It makes sense to have a bar to show how much is being raised (just look at Wikipedia for an example of how this can be implemented).

Maybe if enough money is raised, we can perhaps have rewards for reviewers, collaborators and even normal members?  Like a prize draw or something, for those who have contributed.  Of course, it wouldn't so secretive then, but I think something could be arranged.

I am not asking to be paid for my work, but to get a reward back (like a free CD, a book, a t-shirt &c.) in return would make me happy.  It's not essential though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2007 at 15:36
Bad idea, James... That would make things unbearable here.  There is already enough strain and competition as it is, and involving money or other kinds of material benefits would spell the end of the site. I've already seen it happen, and I don't want to see it here too.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2007 at 15:52
Originally posted by Geck0 Geck0 wrote:

I agree thoroughly with the points raised here, especially those by Angelo.  It makes sense to have a bar to show how much is being raised (just look at Wikipedia for an example of how this can be implemented).

Maybe if enough money is raised, we can perhaps have rewards for reviewers, collaborators and even normal members?  Like a prize draw or something, for those who have contributed.  Of course, it wouldn't so secretive then, but I think something could be arranged.

I am not asking to be paid for my work, but to get a reward back (like a free CD, a book, a t-shirt &c.) in return would make me happy.  It's not essential though.

Well, for me there is enough reward in discovering new artists and I try and pay back by reviewing stuff that isn't well known.  I think the happy medium is to have ads that are predominantly musical in nature, don't intrude with sound, and aren't scams.  Make it a pay site and I will go away and I hope that's not some sick kind of encouragement to anyone here who'd like to see my annoying ass go away. Big%20smile


Edited by Slartibartfast - December 09 2007 at 15:53
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2007 at 16:00
Originally posted by Ghost Rider Ghost Rider wrote:

Bad idea, James... That would make things unbearable here.  There is already enough strain and competition as it is, and involving money or other kinds of material benefits would spell the end of the site. I've already seen it happen, and I don't want to see it here too.


Fair enough. Embarrassed

I can see where you're coming from with this.  It would lead to all sorts of issues, such as jealousy for one.

I'm quite happy with a free site, but with voluntary donations by those who wish to give them.  Maybe a few music related adverts, as Slartibartfast says, but nothing too intruding.

I never clicked on adverts when I could see them anyhow, so now I can't see them, I don't have to worry.  I do know that having adblock and Firefox isn't benefiting the site financially though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2007 at 16:05
yoohoo people..... the ads ARE the problem....

Originally posted by M@X M@X wrote:

Guys,

Good news; I think I found the ads in the 3rd party ads network that was causing it , I will need confrimation that no one experience it.

Bad news, I can't remove the banner ads because the website wont' survive, the high cost of web hosting.

This Ads Network show ads that I don't control. I would like to remove them but I need a new revenue source to help the site.


Let me know.

Other solutions are welcome


M@X Geek


Edited by micky - December 09 2007 at 16:06
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2007 at 16:22
Originally posted by darqdean darqdean wrote:

There is a degree of ownership inherrent in a donation site - this obviously has an up-side and a down-side. The up-side is implicit in the way many people treat the site already - since they are responsible for content then they generally take pride in the site and behave accordingly. The down-side is that if we pay to be a member of a club we expect to be able to have a say in its running, either directly (voting?) or by the selection of committee members ... in the case of this site that would be SCs and Admins. Either way it will mean that people will become even more vocal in the more contentious additions to the site. Donations also raise the issue of accountability, how much is raised, what is it for, how is it spent etc.
 
On the internet, pay-sites are generally "take" sites - sites where you take information away (and before anyone starts sniggering, many professional IT information/answer sites are pay-sites). The casual visitor is not going to donate anything to read a review of an obscure album - ie the "takers", the only people who would donate are regular visitors and active forum members - those that actively add bands/albums and contribute reviews ie the "givers". A site where you pay to contribute information is (to say the least) unusual.
 
So, the question I would have to ask myself is how much pleasure do I get from the site and what is that worth to me? The real cost of the site on my bank balance is actually already quite high - the reviews and recommendations rarely stop me from buying an album, but do lead me to buy a lot of stuff I probably wouldn't have bought if I hadn't been visiting the site. Therefore what I would really be paying for would be all the other stuff - the "community" and "fraternity" side of the site.
 
So, rather than paying to be friends with you bunch of miscreant prog-deviants I would prefer something tangible in return. There are plenty of ways of raising funds - Prog Archives compilation CDs, T-shirts, keyrings, mugs, pens, etc - or a real tie-in with Amazon or cdBaby where PA gets paid a percentage of each CD we buy through them. (let's face it, the total value of CDs that forum members buy in a month is probably greater than the GNP of the Ascension Islands)
 
my 2 beer tokens worth.

Good points Dean. I have suggested the mugs and T-shirts before but nothing came of it. I would be prepared to make a donation but what we don't know is the cost of running PA and how much of a contribution would be required to offset the loss of the ads. I don't have a problem with normal ads as I can Adblock them anyway.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2007 at 16:46

please make all donations payable to "Chester Edwards" in the form of certified check or money order.  Cash will also be accepted, but please no personal checks.  I don't trust you lot. 

Seriously though, if we are donating, shouldn't it be for the good of the site and not for our own personal benefit, whether that benefit be tangible in the form of mugs or t-shirts, or intangible in the form of added control over the site.  Then it ceases to be a donation and becomes a purchase.  Let's not turn our beloved PA into a business enterprise.  Let those who wish to donate do so, with no expectations of any return.  Just my two cents.

I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2007 at 17:04
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

please make all donations payable to "Chester Edwards" in the form of certified check or money order.  Cash will also be accepted, but please no personal checks.  I don't trust you lot. 

Seriously though, if we are donating, shouldn't it be for the good of the site and not for our own personal benefit, whether that benefit be tangible in the form of mugs or t-shirts, or intangible in the form of added control over the site.  Then it ceases to be a donation and becomes a purchase.  Let's not turn our beloved PA into a business enterprise.  Let those who wish to donate do so, with no expectations of any return.  Just my two cents.



hahahhaha...HEY!!!!    Make that payable to 'The BIg Mick'  .....and cash IS accepted ahhahah

I couldn't agree more Chester.... words of wisdom.... simple donations... give if you want to or can support the site..otherwise... don't and just enjoy it as you always have . Clap


well..... I have my donation ready ... but as has been said.... we'd like to know the costs involved... we don't mind ponying up.... but not overpaying if the costs aren't that high.. .or not giving enough if they are higher than what we think.... either way is a waste of money in my eyes.   Either too much.. or not enough


Edited by micky - December 09 2007 at 17:04
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2007 at 17:17
Pretty well agree with everything that's been said here (had not seen this thread earlier today), especially on this donation not obligatory. Younger members simply couldn't afford it.
 
 
And as micky says, if you expect returns from donations, don't donate.
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2007 at 18:38
I wouldn't mind donating the site. How about making a list of top ten donors? Smile
"Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent."

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2007 at 18:48
I still say using Firefox and Adblock plus is the answer.

I never see any ads on ProgArchives, ever.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2007 at 18:59
Not everyone is computer savvy though, Tony.  Firefox and add-ons aren't exactly user-friendly to those who use IE, or are not completely comfortable with computers.  However, Mozilla have made it much easier recently, which is good.

I do agree though, I've not seen an advert here since I started using AdBlock and the addition of NoScript helps even more.  The only time I ever see adverts is when I'm at my voluntary work who use IE7, which is complete rubbish.  I can never even find the refresh button!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2007 at 19:04
Tony, I'm sorry but I don't know what the f**k you're talking about

I have the exact adblockers you have
and I still have the exact ads as before


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2007 at 19:07
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

I still say using Firefox and Adblock plus is the answer.

I never see any ads on ProgArchives, ever.




just my two cents Tony....  not everyone uses them... maybe they should.. maybe they shouldn't... but if you haven't already, check the thread in the collab area they deals with another problem related to this.  Removing the ads would... have other benefits LOLWink
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2007 at 19:35
How much would donatios be?
 
How often would they have to be given?
 
How much of an aesthetic improvement will we see on the site (assuming there are no pop-up blockers whatsoever)?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2007 at 02:27
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

I still say using Firefox and Adblock plus is the answer.

I never see any ads on ProgArchives, ever.




This can't be the answer, Tony.  If everyone implemented this, there'd be no "ad-sights", much less clickthroughs, and then no ad revenue would be generated and the server costs would go unpaid.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2007 at 02:32
What about having an ad-free site for subscriptions, and having ads on the site for non-subscribers. Just throwing it out there.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2007 at 05:12
Donations should be anonymous, but  each donator should have a right to add one artistSmile
M@x would be multi-millionaire within weeksLOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2007 at 06:09
Two questions:

1. Are the profits from these "shady" ads really that big?
2. Is the server hosting really *that* expensive?

Maybe one other alternative would be to try to find a cheaper hosting service ... I don't know about Canada, but in Germany there are hosters like www.hetzner.de who don't charge any traffic fees (unlimited traffic at least with a 100MBit uplink).
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