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If we ignore the technical brilliance? |
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moshkito ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18629 |
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Hi, My website is more about film than anything else. Something that shows the variety and experience that "progressive music" has lost in the past 20 years! And NOT because of my tastes, or ideas, but because of folks continually thinking that one thing is necessary and the rest is not. I have over 500 film reviews, and only a handful of album reviews ... mostly I find them redundant, and do not wish to use a scalpel on the body of an artist ... it is distasteful and in most cases un-necessary, with one really bad thing ... the fact that a lot of reviews can only say that sound like somebody else, which is the commercial way of saying that individuality is not allowed. It doesn't matter to me if you are not capable of even figuring out how much MUSIC is discussed in so many films I reviewed ... you're not into music, I don't think ... you're into your own top this and that, and everyone else is wrong because you have a title, run a website, and consider yourself a "boss" in one of those places! Good for you ... you can have it! I don't need it or want it! |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21806 |
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^ Says the guy running a website where he is the only one ever reviewing stuff. I found the film reviews, but they're hard to read given your love for ugly background image textures. You might want to correct the link to the links section, since it's broken (https://www.pedrosena.com/links).
Want to make it easier to read? Remove the background images. The web abandoned this kind of design in 2000. BTW: How rude of you to tell me that I'm "not into music". Your limitless arrogance makes me angry. Pedro Sena, Pedro Sena, Pedro Sena ... long live the absolute authority on what people think or do. Let's build you a monument, and forever worship you in absolute awe. You are indeed our master! Now excuse me, need to take a crap.
Edited by MikeEnRegalia - June 14 2023 at 06:26 |
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21806 |
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To return to the topic: I think that music is at its best when technical brilliance is paired with inspired songwriting and a really good collaboration between the musicians.
Look at this for instance (one of my favorite new releases this year, and I think the band would make a fine addition to PA). Is this too much technical brilliance, too little, or just right? Edited by MikeEnRegalia - June 14 2023 at 06:49 |
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Stressed Cheese ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 16 2022 Location: The Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 540 |
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When a comparison like that is drawn in a review, that's just a convenient way of giving some information about an album. Sure, I can write a detailed description of what Infest the Rats' Nest sounds like, but a comparison to Metallica, maybe some Black Sabbath and Motorhead on the side saves a lot of words. Even if it's all someone has to say about an album, that just means that this person isn't very good at writing reviews.
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21806 |
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^ Hypothetically, a rating system based solely on associations between releases and other releases or artists could be very effective. It would not "tell" you much about a particular release, but if you rated a few releases that you like and those releases were linked to others by a couple of users who listen to a lot of music, the system could give you recommendations that would probably match well with your taste.
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Logan ![]() Forum & Site Admin Group ![]() ![]() Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 38722 |
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Comparing an album to other albums with similar qualities is one of the main things I look for in reviews. That does become a way of recommending other albums if I like the one's review I am reading and letting my know if the album whose review I'm reading might appeal based on the other albums mentioned. I doesn't mean that no individuality is allowed, it means that people commonly associate (we are pattern seeking animals) and that most music is not born in a vacuum in that the people who made the music are influenced by other music (music styles, artists etc.) One can be innovative without being that originative. And one can experiment and try new things within particular musical idioms and play with genre conventions. So one can of course have an individual flavour without being totally or particularly unique.
^ I would like that kind of system, already they have things like tastedive and tastekid which is supposed to make recommendations based on what you like, and the use of various algorithms at different places with the same approach. |
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Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
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richardh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 30268 |
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^ Yep absolutely
There is a lot of Norwegian prog I like because they are very retro and can be easily related to classic seventies artists. It's as much about the 'sound'. The drums are played and sound the way I like and the organ sounds like an actual organ and not something that is sampled. I've always thought (well for at least 40 years) that the whole unique thing is very hard to nail down and ends up being the musical equivalent of 'how many angels dance on the head of a pin'. Emerson had influences and ripped off plenty of artists not always crediting them. There is no God type musician who thinks up new music and then there it is. It's true that early seventies bands improvised more but then there was a much more thriving live scene with clubs, stadiums and festivals allowing more immediacy. Nowadays a lot of new music is very homogenised and plastic for sure but that's down to more reliance on the internet than actually going out and having an actual experience.
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Logan ![]() Forum & Site Admin Group ![]() ![]() Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 38722 |
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^ Very good post.
By the way, and this is not such a quality post. I used to be quite critical of retro-Prog -- I called it regressive progressive rock and gorP (backwards Prog), but I have come to love and embrace so much retro music (Prog and not Prog). I think there are so many really creative ways to return to that sound. And I like music that really sounds like it is of the past, and even pretends to be of the past like Kosmischer Läufer and Klaus Morlock. While that is imitative of older "sounds", and deliberately so, it's also ingenious in its own way. I really like so much music that has obvious retro qualities, and that which I would mistake for coming from another era/ time if I did not know better (the latter being more limited, but quite a few doing that in the folk-horror soundtrack realm). Edited by Logan - June 14 2023 at 11:01 |
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Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
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Gerinski ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5160 |
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There are different categories of virtuosos, some have a natural born talent to compose highly original and beautiful music. Even if they are not technically proficient as Steve Vais or Rick Wakemans I consider them virtuosos as well in their own way.
Some others have the gift of extracting an extremely personal and unique sound from their instruments, even if they are not technically out of this world (Pink Floyd or Brian May come to mind). And there are those who are virtuosos in the common use of the word, with technically hyper-proficient performance. Obviously when the 3 categories meet, the musical experience becomes truly outstanding, but I enjoy musicians who are virtuosos in any category alone. Perhaps the last one, technical proficiency, is the least guarantee of good music, there are quite a few highly proficient musicians who fail to convey true emotion and feeling in their performances.
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telefunk ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: January 15 2011 Location: The Restaurant at the End o Status: Offline Points: 108 |
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We are in the age of Ai. Ai will be brilliant. I hugely respect bands that represent humanity's last stand: Animals As Leaders, Thrailkill, Scale the Summit, Piniol... amongst the very few
After that.... the machines... Edited by telefunk - June 14 2023 at 11:49 |
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21806 |
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There's this famous quote attributed to Picasso: "good artists copy, great artists steal." We often forget that there are only 12 notes in music (yes, I know about microtonal music, thank you). Most great pop songs are based on (the same) four chords, nowadays many successful bands make do with less. But making great music is not about inventing new notes, or instruments. It can involve that, but a lot of the greatest music ever produced is just a case of putting everything, mainly old and some new, in a package that just hits the nail on the head due to both ability and luck. It can involve technical brilliance (flashy playing), or it can be very minimalistic. It can be polished, or lo-fi. In most cases even the latter doesn't really work well if the musicians haven't mastered their instruments, be it self taught or professionally learned. |
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richardh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 30268 |
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^ so true
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moshkito ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18629 |
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Hi, It's an old quote, but it is my thought that the word "steal" is being misinterpreted since many of the "great" artists, are less of a "copy" than anything else. From my perspective in a literary house, it was very different, in that folks like Hemingway, Huxley, Malraux, and others, did not have to copy or steal anything, because they had, AND KNEW IT what was inside of them ... to do what they felt they had to do ... but it is with some funny bits sometimes, like one of them looking into my eyes and asking ... "what you thinking little boy?" ... which kinda suggests that they are aware of their "difference" and are into something else that is not exactly "thought" oriented, as it is more visually minded and oriented from a completely different point of view ... this one being internal, or later described as "intuitive". I think Picasso, a well known jokester, btw, was always elusive about his ability and where it came from, and I don't think the gave the wording to define it a lot of credit ... in this sense he was very much on par with the surrealists and later the cubists, because it would be impossible to explain the work with words that we can understand. Going back to "technical brilliance", it's really difficult to define if that is what made the music great or not ... Paganini is well known and revered for his great playing, but the music he played is way better known that he ever was. And the same will likely happen to many rock musicians. The only concern I have is when someone spends more time in his/her "technical brilliance" than they do in the context of the piece of music, which in my ears suffers because all of a sudden it is one player 75% and the rest of the band 25% ... and the completeness is not as cohesive as it could be. This was an interesting issue in the early progressive music, when the guitar in many European bands, was still going (we never thought of it as solo either!!!), and never stopped ... but now it is just about defined as a "solo" it seems like. It's an interesting thing, but having seen in my life, Yehudi Menuhin, Ravi Shankar (and East Meets West), Isaac Stern, Leonard Bernstein, Andres Segovia, and many others, the one thing that I could say ... is their "virtuosity" and technical brilliance, NEVER ONCE stood out above anything else ... the rest of the music was still there, and in the East meets West, it was never a "competition", it was more a friendship of talents ... the kind, I like to joke that we can not even (often) think about, or conceive. Today, this is, mostly, about the solo, and a vocalist, or another band member can not be thought of as having technical brilliance. In GONG, alone, Mike was actually the technical brilliant member ... never made mistakes, and always held up the rest of the band even when some moments things didn't work, and in 5 concerts, I never even saw him sweat once .. no wonder he ended up teaching music! The other one would be Bloomdido, who is showing many folks these days, how great so much of his work was ... and it was in a band that was allowed to help create what they did ... but we don't really think of these as "solo", since Daevid doing the Glissando is a "solo", although he often said it was not a solo! It was a part of the story and the whole of the music.
Edited by moshkito - June 15 2023 at 06:31 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21806 |
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^ I don't think that "technical brilliance" and "solos" are the same thing. There are many genres and formats that have no "solos", yet to play the music requires a high level of proficiency. But of course solo spots can be occasions where individual musicians get an opportunity to shine. In Dream Theater (probably one of the bands you would accuse of focusing too much on "technical brilliance", all the members usually get their spots, there are also songs that feature "duets" where keyboards and guitar are playing a "solo" together, or they all join and play unisono or in a challenge/response scheme. Anything goes! I'd say if a band wants to focus on flashy playing, let them! As well as the opposite. No matter what they choose, I'll always focus on how well they are playing. And to me it sounds better if they play better, in the simplest possible terms.
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siLLy puPPy ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15447 |
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Edited by siLLy puPPy - June 15 2023 at 07:31 |
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21806 |
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^ Sure! And some of the greatest moments of prog music arise when it all comes together.
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siLLy puPPy ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15447 |
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^ that's a little too Pink Floyd inspired more my speed for hyper-creative prog from your neck of the woods (Sweden!) |
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21806 |
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^ Yes, he's a long-time favorite of mine as well, and a good example of an artist that probably puts some people off because of the high level of proficiency. But what should he do ... play slower/more sloppy on purpose, just as to not offend these listeners? He's doing precisely what he loves.
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siLLy puPPy ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15447 |
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^ nice! Never seen that video before. Those who are light years ahead always make those who don't get it uncomfortable. Too many live in the past instead of looking to the future. If you ask me Eklundh is one of the top 5 best modern guitarists / musicians etc. I just wish Freak Kitchen was as interesting as his solo works :/
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MikeEnRegalia ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21806 |
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^ Yes, the Freak Kitchen albums are solid, but not truly awesome.
Here's one of my favorite guitarists, showing what you can do with a telecaster and a classic tune.
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