Has Prog achieved 'inmortality'? - Progressive Rock Music Forum

Author

Message

Topic Search

Topic Options

Rick Robson View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: September 03 2013
Location: Rio de Janeiro
Status: Offline
Points: 1607

Posted: November 25 2014 at 11:29

moshkito wrote:

.....

Europe has a very large and difficult music history that can be traced at least 1,500 years and it would be much more correct to say that a lot of "prog" and "progressive" music has more to thank in any of this "classical" music than otherwise.

I see this fact clearly as one of the reasons for such questioning Prog's 'immortality' these days.

Edited by Rick Robson - November 25 2014 at 12:11

"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB

Permy

Forum Newbie

Joined: November 21 2014
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 38

Posted: November 25 2014 at 11:40

"Two trunkless legs of stone...."

Let us forget this immortality topic . The thread has become interesting with the electronica/electronic debate.
......
Good post Toddler!

And Skinny Boy is NOT a troll. Good points there.
The line about silly DJ-toss should be stamped onto a bar of platinum.

I would quote it here ,but "cut & paste" does not seem to work here.

(Too bad junior-"musician" "cut & paste" did not work for sharn-electronica. Unfortunately for us of the electronic faction, it does.)

bj_waters

Forum Newbie

Joined: February 10 2013
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 37

Posted: November 25 2014 at 20:15

richardh wrote:

For my own part I have found myself streaming TV and films over the last 6 months for the first time and I have to admit I like it. But that is TV and we are talking about something that comes and goes and is quickly forgotten. The point of prog is that it sticks around and makes a place in your life not just something that flies by and then its onto the next thing. Streaming lends itself to the production line and that is not what is good for it imo.

Guldbamsen wrote:

As frightening as this may come across to the collector in me, it still sounds like a plausible future.

Nothing tangible for the consumer - only the cloud has the music stored.

I'd still stick to my guns (and records though). If prog is ever to reach immortality, it'd be quite the detrimental blow when the cloud suddenly stops working....which it obviously will at some point. Nothing lasts forever - not even immortality.

Streaming movies and television has been huge in the last few years, and it's starting to redefine television and how it gets made. I think the major reason why this has become more popular is due to its sheer convenience. If you want to know the future of technology, people naturally gravitate toward whatever is most convenient, and I can see many people simply preferring to stream music rather than have to deal with buying and owning CDs or even mp3s.

Of course, physical media will never completely die. Libraries will probably still have books and CDs and the like, and I'm certain many of the people around here will still try to buy physical discs or vinyls or whatever, for the purist market (though I would expect those prices to rise!). But when it comes to what the mainstream demographics consume, it will be what requires the least of its users.

Angelo wrote:

Glad you posted that, so I don't have to. :)

Sure, I guess. You're welcome.

Also, if you don't mind my two cents about Electronic Music.

First of all, I'm a massive fan of it (big into Trance, DNB, Happy Hardcore, and a lot of House/Dance/Club stuff), so therefore I think it's music. Of course, one could technically argue that it's music simply because it's noise to a measurable rhythm, which means it doesn't take much for some sound to be music. But I admit that's how I look at it.

I consider the idea that sounds need to be natural for something to be music to be flawed, as people have been doing all kinds of artificial things in the studio to great effect. Think about most of Pink Floyd's music, especially early on with all the weird noises they used. Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells is another interesting example. Sure, he played all those instruments, but he also overdubbed himself. It's not like we think he's playing all of them at the same time. And of course there are all those synthesizers, the classic electronic music makers that have been one of the major staples of prog rock since near the beginning. Most of the electronic music of today comes from tinkering with those classic keyboards and organs, and as a consequence, electronic music has become a rather wide and robust genre of music. For those interested in all the different styles (or at least want to hear the sheer breadth of the genre), I highly recommend Ishkur's Guide to Electronic Music. It's a little bit out of date, but it's still very impressive and offers tons of examples.

It's hard to predict the future of music anyways. The progressive rock fans generally didn't really anticipate punk rock, who didn't anticipate metal, who didn't anticipate grunge, and so forth. At the very least, I think it's wonderful that the internet can help preserve the history of music, that way in case someone is interested in what has come before doesn't have to dig for it quite as hard.

Kati

Forum Senior Member

Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253

Posted: November 25 2014 at 22:40

Cooee! My sweet grumpies, immortality we all know the meaning of that, especially on here ;) thus it's not a specific music genre that will become immortal, the musicians who produced those epics are the ones who become immortal really

Permy

Forum Newbie

Joined: November 21 2014
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 38

Posted: November 26 2014 at 08:39

Within this very thread a forum administrator has banned Surrealist for insisting the dance music genre known as electronicA is inferior.

I CAN believe that NONE OF YOU have stood up for Surrealist.

I have seen and personally experienced this on many a music forum.

I never thought Progarchives was as big an oldboyo net as, say, Hoffman forum, but THIS puts a different light on things.

WHAT ARE YOU ALL AFRAID OF?
You get banned here, there is at least one other prog forum better you can go to.

Simples.

SteveG

Forum Senior Member

Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20497

Posted: November 26 2014 at 08:46

^Most likely it was the way the person in question posted his opinions that got him banned.

As someone who is incredibly outspoken, I can assure you that Guldbamsen and the PA staff are incredibly tolerant and diplomatic.

I know from a previous post that Surrealist was warned before being cut. (If that was indeed the case, I'm not going to check you.)

Why don't you experience this forum for a few months before drawing any conclusions.

Edited by SteveG - November 26 2014 at 09:28

rogerthat

Prog Reviewer

Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869

Posted: November 26 2014 at 09:50

Permy wrote:

Within this very thread a forum administrator has banned Surrealist for insisting the dance music genre known as electronicA is inferior.

I CAN believe that NONE OF YOU have stood up for Surrealist.

I have seen and personally experienced this on many a music forum.

I never thought Progarchives was as big an oldboyo net as, say, Hoffman forum, but THIS puts a different light on things.

WHAT ARE YOU ALL AFRAID OF?
You get banned here, there is at least one other prog forum better you can go to.

Simples.

Most likely he wasn't banned for THAT but for embarking on the same tired analog v/s digital rant on every thread where he can somehow direct the conversation in that direction. If you had been here a few months earlier too, you would have witnessed a replica of the same conversation that took place on this thread. Surrealist saying the same things and lots of people making the same points in objection. Surely somebody's got to get it at some point.

Guldbamsen View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Retired Admin

Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
Status: Offline
Points: 23098

Posted: November 26 2014 at 10:18

Thanks guys.

I'm kinda regretting I did this over the open forum now, but I wanted to make it clear to people that we don't condone this kind of behaviour - especially when it's something the person in question has been warned about before...numerous times.

We've had a few folks on here recently who, for some remarkable reason, cannot seem to make their points clear without having to drag down everyone around them - be that unsuspecting members, musicians or entire styles of music. It's not that we don't welcome opposing opinions - we do, but there are many ways of making one's point clear without being downright disrespectful and offensive. I thought I'd make it clear once and for all that we don't want that kind of attitude on PA.

Alright, I hope this is clear and over with. Now can we please get back to Gerard's thread? Thanks.

Edited by Guldbamsen - November 26 2014 at 10:23

“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams

Walton Street View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: November 24 2014
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 872

Posted: November 26 2014 at 11:18

I'll bring it back on topic by making as simple a case as I can.

Yes, Prog Rock has an important, identifiable, and everlasting place in the 'history of music' because of the sheer weight, volume, longevity, and popularity of the best known prog groups.

"I know one thing: that I know nothing"

- SpongeBob Socrates

The Dark Elf View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 12681

Posted: November 26 2014 at 20:05

Permy wrote:

Of course The Pwog is immortal.

But the question you should be asking is:

If Pwog created you, then what created Pwog?

The answer many men of the cloth give you is: "Ah but you are making the big assumption of a CREATED PWOG."

I mean, wtf??

"Pwog"? You've already used the term "masterman" in a different thread. Do trolls have Tourettes and repeat the same idiosyncratic words over and over, carrying them like a venereal disease from one banned account to another?

Wallace/Walter/Knobby...in whichever guise you're still spouting gibberish.

...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...

The Dark Elf View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 12681

Posted: November 26 2014 at 20:09

This diatribe is all the more amusing coming from a previously banned troll. Get along li'l doggie. I am sure there is a record bin that needs a proper category.

...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...

moshkito

Forum Senior Member

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16148

Posted: November 29 2014 at 17:29

Rick Robson wrote:

moshkito wrote:

.....

I see this fact clearly as one of the reasons for such questioning Prog's 'immortality' these days.

Agreed ... but then, we can say the same thing for rock'n'roll, jazz, disco, punk ... you know what I mean.

I think that it has to be more musically inclined, that is less simplistic and high schoolish, in order to be considered "music" ... and all of a sudden, Robert Wyatt is in trouble!

We will know more in 50 years ... though i doubt I will be around then. Not sure I can make it to 114!

...

Rick Robson wrote:

moshkito wrote:

.....

I see this fact clearly as one of the reasons for such questioning Prog's 'immortality' these days.

Agreed ... but then, we can say the same thing for rock'n'roll, jazz, disco, punk ... you know what I mean.

I think that it has to be more musically inclined, that is less simplistic and high schoolish, in order to be considered "music" ... and all of a sudden, Robert Wyatt is in trouble!

We will know more in 50 years ... though i doubt I will be around then. Not sure I can make it to 114!

Edited by moshkito - November 29 2014 at 17:34

Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com

Forum Senior Member

Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18371

Posted: November 29 2014 at 17:54

This should say it all LOL

Thank you for supporting independently produced music

Gerinski

Prog Reviewer

Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5093

Posted: November 29 2014 at 20:06

Immortality is a big word, but at least I'm really happy that it has lasted for so long and it seems that it will still last for a few more years. If I think that it would really have died around 1980 (as Walter used to claim) it would have been a much more boring life. Sure enough a lot of stuff was made in the 70's which I am still discovering, but the spectrum of different stuff would have been much smaller. If Prog will die after me, I'm happy enough Wink