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Topic ClosedDid Genesis release the first neo-prog album?

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The Dark Elf View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 10:20
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


I think I have to defer to my previous post to clarify this posted question. If neo-prog is defined as "Neo-Genesis" by everyone in the rock media world, then how can Genesis be neo-prog?
Simply stated, how can the originator also be a follower?

Steve, I believe the correct terminology for "after-Gabriel, Collins/Trick influenced prog bands" would be Post-primal, neo-natal pseudo-Genesis. Or P2N2PG, acronmally speaking.

Edited by The Dark Elf - November 25 2014 at 10:20
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 11:46
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I think the problem, and confusion, with the term neo-prog is that it's come to represent bands that are 'Neo-Genesis'. In other words, prog bands that formed in the eighties and were heavily influenced or almost totally influenced by Genesis. Even PA's definition of neo-prog says as much. The fine details seem to be exactly when the term came into being, which I always felt was a snub to eighties bands like Solstice, who couldn't be more different from Genesis if they tried. (The original version of the band did not even have a resident keyboard player! Shocked. That's how different they were. They were folk based, with a fiddle player and a shredding guitarist.)
 
So, I've always been a little unhappy with the term neo-prog, but it's all we have to work with.

Yea sadly most "Neo-Prog" bands sound like nothing more than "not Genesis" to me.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 12:29

I've always regarded 'Entangled' as the first real Neoprog song but to call "A Trick of the Tail" the first Neo album is a bit of a stretch. 

-------someone please tell him to delete this line, he looks like a noob-------

I don't have an unnatural obsession with Disney Princesses, I have a fourteen year old daughter and coping mechanisms.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 12:59
I think ATOTT in particular is definitely quite like Marillion/Neo-Prog, but really a predecessor. Script For A Jester's Tear is the first and best entirely neo-prog album.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 13:10
Originally posted by Roland113 Roland113 wrote:

I've always regarded 'Entangled' as the first real Neoprog song but to call "A Trick of the Tail" the first Neo album is a bit of a stretch. 



So much of a stretch, indeed, that it would be a member of The Fantastic Four.

The whole notion of Genesis being a Neo prog band is preposterous. At the risk of repeating myself endlessly, all neo Prog was was another name for the new wave of Prog that started in England in the '80's, influenced primarily by, but not exclusively, Genesis and Yes.

It is no more possible for Genesis to be a neo prog band than it is for me to be a calf rearing mastodon.

Really..................
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 14:04
I think Genesis probably originated more styles than any other prog band,
that's why you would raise this question.  ELP with Pirates wasn't that
different than Brain Salad Surgery, even though Pirates has some innovations,
it was still the ELP style.  Emerson had his polyphonic synth, and so the
texture was radically different, and he was in some new modes.  You can
still hear some similar harmonies with a song like The Sheriff, modally. 

Genesis from Nursery Cryme really had a lot of 
uniqueness, and then when they hit Trick of the Tail from ATTWT, probably
because of Hackett's coming of age, they created a whole new style in prog,
almost like a bubble gum very early King Crimsom.   I realize Hackett wasn't
on ATTWT but it seemed to have his afterglow, no pun intended, which eventually
faded out but still remained in the Hackett solo works. 

I'm not sure where they went after that, but Abacab had some nice strong
"new wave prog" things going on.  You might say they influenced a third
style in doing this. 




Edited by brainstormer - November 25 2014 at 14:06
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 14:05
 
Just say no Steve
-------someone please tell him to delete this line, he looks like a noob-------

I don't have an unnatural obsession with Disney Princesses, I have a fourteen year old daughter and coping mechanisms.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 14:16
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


I think I have to defer to my previous post to clarify this posted question. If neo-prog is defined as "Neo-Genesis" by everyone in the rock media world, then how can Genesis be neo-prog?
Simply stated, how can the originator also be a follower?

Steve, I believe the correct terminology for "after-Gabriel, Collins/Trick influenced prog bands" would be Post-primal, neo-natal pseudo-Genesis. Or P2N2PG, acronmally speaking.
Ha Ha. Unfortunately Greg, I didn't come up with the term 'neo-prog'. I can only comment on it's short comings and try to explain it's meaning the best I can without making this inclusive term even more inclusive then it  already is.

Edited by SteveG - November 25 2014 at 14:27
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 14:49
No.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 14:51
^John said Yoko said the word yes and it changed his life forever! LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 14:54
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


I think I have to defer to my previous post to clarify this posted question. If neo-prog is defined as "Neo-Genesis" by everyone in the rock media world, then how can Genesis be neo-prog?
Simply stated, how can the originator also be a follower?

Steve, I believe the correct terminology for "after-Gabriel, Collins/Trick influenced prog bands" would be Post-primal, neo-natal pseudo-Genesis. Or P2N2PG, acronmally speaking.
Ha Ha.
Unfortunately Greg, I didn't come up with the term 'neo-prog'. I can only comment on it's short comings and try to explain it's meaning the best I can without making this inclusive term even more inclusive then it  already is.



"Neo-prog" is a rather goofy term. There is really nothing new about it, except for the digitally sterile sound that permeates much of it.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 15:00
Originally posted by Roland113 Roland113 wrote:

 
Just say no Steve
I have no idea of what this means but it looks like fun! LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 15:56
Sorry SteveG, that was actually directed at Steve Lazland's 'calf rearing mastodon' comment, I couldn't actually find any suitable pictured of mastodon's herding cattle so I went with that.
-------someone please tell him to delete this line, he looks like a noob-------

I don't have an unnatural obsession with Disney Princesses, I have a fourteen year old daughter and coping mechanisms.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2014 at 06:03
this band might be a contender (the roumers sais so)
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2014 at 06:48
I think Genesis was moving neo-symph. Marillion took the cue and created neo-prog.

Edited by bhikkhu - November 27 2014 at 06:48
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2014 at 14:01
No such thing as Neo Prog.....
Symphonic Progressive Rock.....1st Impression (1968-1977) 2nd Impression 1978-1985 3rd 1986 - 1999 and the glorious 4th from 2000 - now.....
Lets hope that the seriously LONG tracks are about to be realised......The 5-day test of prog is yet to be released !!!


Edited by M27Barney - November 27 2014 at 14:02
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2014 at 17:23
I don't go along with ATOTT or W&W as Neo. However, Second Home By the Sea always struck me as having a Neo quality, and by that time they were kind of imitating themselves (sporadically for the purpose of placating what old fans there were left) the way Neo imitated them.

Edited by HackettFan - November 29 2014 at 17:27
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2014 at 18:40
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

I don't go along with ATOTT or W&W as Neo. However, Second Home By the Sea always struck me as having a Neo quality, and by that time they were kind of imitating themselves (sporadically for the purpose of placating what old fans there were left) the way Neo imitated them.


Interesting way to put it but there is much truth in it.
"You never had the things you thought you should have had and you'll not get them now..."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2014 at 20:41
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

However, Second Home By the Sea always struck me as having a Neo quality, and by that time they were kind of imitating themselves (sporadically for the purpose of placating what old fans there were left) the way Neo imitated them.
Nice quote indeed ! Tongue


Edited by Gerinski - November 29 2014 at 20:42
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2014 at 04:46
Originally posted by Walton Street Walton Street wrote:

you guys are making my head hurt.

 
Until I joined this forum i'd only heard the terms prog-rock or art-rock.
 
 

Hear, hear!!  ClapClapClap
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