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Stool Man View Drop Down
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    Posted: December 12 2014 at 06:39
Many of the most highly-regarded bands on PA have gone through different music styles, different phases in their career.  In most cases, this included a prog phase - but what about before and after the prog phase? 
If we rated the non-prog careers of all the top 100 bands (whoever they may be) how would they stand up against each other? Somebody that's always been prog would be low down on the non-prog list, whereas others whose prog phase was just a few albums would be much higher up, assuming their non-prog albums are also loved. 
And let's not get into bickering over which albums of so-and-so band are and are not prog, just accept that some bands have non-prog albums which are also popular with us prog fans.

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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2014 at 09:31
I guess bands like Iron Maiden or Swans, artists like Bjork, whose non prog/non prog related (as applicable) phase is not necessarily just commercial music, would rank the highest in such a list?  Most 70s prog bands that went non prog in the 80s went commercial and most didn't make particularly distinguished music in that phase.
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Points: 20474 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2014 at 14:26
Interesting question as I've never viewed  my like of prog as a 'phase'. Prog to me is just another musical genre that I listen to. It has certain points of appeal to me and it equally has negative aspects that I have to be in the mood for.
 
As for myself, I'm more interested in the 'singer/songwriter' troubadour type. Particularly American songwriters like Townes Van Zandt, Guy Clark, Steve Earle, Lucinda Williams and, more recently, Ry Cooder with his concept albums like Chavez Ravine, My Name Is Buddy and I, Flathead. 
 
I also love American Blues and Roots music and listen a lot to Lightnin' Hopkins, Blind Lemon Jefferson, Pink Anderson as well as American Bluegrass music.
 
Progressive rock music caught my fancy in the late 60's due to it's psychedelic connections at first like the Beatles' classics like Tomorrow Never Knows and Lucy In The Sky, etc, as well my infatuation with Jimi Hendrix, who I had the chance to see live in 1968. I still revere the man and measure all other electric guitarists  against him.
 
Because of my regard for Hendrix, I also listen to other guitar greats like the late Stevie Ray Vaughan and 'sleeper' virtuosos like Mark Knopfler because you never when he's going to come up with something brilliant. Knopfler's climatic lead on Tunnel Of Love from the Making Movies album is the finest I've ever heard put down on vinyl and still gives me chills to this day.
 
So, phase? I think not. It's just another avenue of musical enjoyment for me, among many others.
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Points: 1413 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2014 at 16:41
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

 as well as American Bluegrass music.

Properly played bluegrass, along with select Irish folk, is officially the best folk music on the planet. There, I said it. And, there is progressive bluegrass as well Clap
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Points: 8617 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2014 at 16:46
Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

 as well as American Bluegrass music.

Properly played bluegrass, along with select Irish folk, is officially the best folk music on the planet. There, I said it. And, there is progressive bluegrass as well Clap


Bluegrass is some of the best.
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Points: 13240 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2014 at 16:57
I've been going through my Prog phase for 38'years now. The wife reckons I will grow out of it soon....
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Points: 12656 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2014 at 20:10
Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

 as well as American Bluegrass music.

Properly played bluegrass, along with select Irish folk, is officially the best folk music on the planet. There, I said it. And, there is progressive bluegrass as well Clap

Funny you should mention it, I was listening to The Pogues and The Punch Brothers on my commute today.
 
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Points: 5109 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2014 at 21:48
It depends on the artist. Steve Hackett has done many different things and for the most part very well. I really love his classical guitar work. Sure there have been some missteps along the way (GTR), but I just view that as bad music prog or not. I dig the Cure's "Three Imaginary Boys" just as much as "Disintegration." It's all good music. If I like an artist I follow their music no matter what they are doing. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes they run out of steam and if we are lucky they excel throughout.

Edited by bhikkhu - December 12 2014 at 21:48
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Points: 26108 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 02:13
Rush are the only band I like that have managed to produce good music after their prog phase. Essentially though they were a hard rock band that dabbled with prog rather than the full blown article so I think the heart of the band is where they are now ( and also where they started).

Yes are a difficult as I don't think they ever left prog behind but there is a perception that they became more commercial orientated in approach from the eighties on. Genesis debut and CAS are the only 'no prog' albums they made imo. I don't particularly like either of those although I can find at least one track I like on every other album they made.

Pink Floyd never stopped ( or startedWink) They were always Pink Floyd and have remained so.

Gentle Giant are an interesting case. There was always a simple and complex side of their music working in parallel but later on the simpler side prevailed. However they still sounded like Gentle Giant.
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 02:33
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I've been going through my Prog phase for 38'years now. The wife reckons I will grow out of it soon....
Lazland! SmileYour wife is the most wonderful person in this earth, so when are you coming to Africa? LOL
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Points: 20474 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 11:17
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I've been going through my Prog phase for 38'years now. The wife reckons I will grow out of it soon....
Laz, you're just like my brother. As soon as gets interested in something, he drops it after 40 years and goes after something else. LOL
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Points: 3126 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 11:23
I'm a guitarist, since age 7 and my phases with Prog was more to do with learning the music note for note and that could measure up to either learning something progressive or complex to perform with a very tight unit in front of people in a very huge and scary venue or something written by a Prog band that was obviously more commercial. My phase revolved around emulating Steve Hackett, Anthony Phillips, and Pat Metheny on the guitar and most likely too much.. as my albums were compared to their style of writing in reviews. I had my own style in writing , but allowed these 3 guitarists to influence me a bit too much and only during this specific time period ..which was probably between 2001 and 2004. Shortly after this I became more interested in writing extended pieces in a "Chamber Rock" style where I hired an outstanding violinist to work with me and she's simply amazing! She has a little bit of Jean Luc Ponty in her style when soloing, but it's just amazing to hear her play and I love working with her. I am overwhelmed. These are phases of Prog in the musician's world and no doubt...they can sometimes be painful. 

Some musicians who can play like Alan Holdsworth, Wayne Shorter, George Duke, or Billy Cobham   live in this unearthly world that cannot connect itself to many people socially. It's not a matter of reaching out to everyone so they can understand you are different, ..it's the lonely and freakish nature that exists inside yourself. If your musician friends are not around ..you can't relate to anyone. I believe Ray Davies felt like this? He lost his sister in an automobile accident and she was the one who had inspired him to gain interest in music. Most of his lyrics mocked England and by listening to those lyrics about his social environment...I got the impression at a very young age..that I had been following stories written by a very disappointed young Englishman. Then he spoke about being free. He talked about the escapism of life and justified it by further expressing in a song that there was nothing directly wrong socially with being that way. He made suggestions in his lyrics to follow another path of life and NOT the one that any particular country/goverment or media had set up for us. He did this without being Psychedelic or groovy. He wasn't like everyone else in the 60's and was actually..a kind of misfit. Another phase which can offer you up as an ideal candidate for psychiatric treatment.
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Points: 20474 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 11:42
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:


Some musicians who can play like Alan Holdsworth, Wayne Shorter, George Duke, or Billy Cobham   live in this unearthly world that cannot connect itself to many people socially. It's not a matter of reaching out to everyone so they can understand you are different, ..it's the lonely and freakish nature that exists inside yourself. If your musician friends are not around ..you can't relate to anyone. I believe Ray Davies felt like this? He lost his sister in an automobile accident and she was the one who had inspired him to gain interest in music. Most of his lyrics mocked England and by listening to those lyrics about his social environment...I got the impression at a very young age..that I had been following stories written by a very disappointed young Englishman. Then he spoke about being free. He talked about the escapism of life and justified it by further expressing in a song that there was nothing directly wrong socially with being that way. He made suggestions in his lyrics to follow another path of life and NOT the one that any particular country/goverment or media had set up for us. He did this without being Psychedelic or groovy. He wasn't like everyone else in the 60's and was actually..a kind of misfit. Another phase which can offer you up as an ideal candidate for psychiatric treatment.


I can relate to the loner relationship to his or her music, Todd. Most of the music I listen is off the mainstream and is not appreciated by the masses, so as l developed a way to enjoy a lot of it in isolation from my peers. People in society are very closed minded and myopic. Sometimes I still feel sad when I hear a great new song from some genre and can't share it with people, but not because the loss is mine. It's because the loss is theirs due to their closed mindedness and rigid thought process.
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Points: 4287 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 11:45

One of my favorites is Bruford, after and alongside his “prog” face, he has done some brilliant Jazz albums.
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Points: 1413 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 12:15
Originally posted by tamijo tamijo wrote:

One of my favorites is Bruford, after and alongside his “prog” face, he has done some brilliant Jazz albums.


I would go even one step further: Bruford is a fusion drummer who spent a few years with a bunch of people that saw themselves as "rock" bands, namely Yes and KC. After that Bruford made a few jazz albums, most of which were very good, and played on a number of rock albums, most (if not all) of which are forgettable. Which does make him a jazz drummer, methinks Geek.
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Points: 16145 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 12:48
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I've been going through my Prog phase for 38'years now. The wife reckons I will grow out of it soon....
 
Yeah ... same ... about 45 years now ... and I still don't know what it means and I am not sure I even want to define it again! Too damn illusive of a word! Not to mention the folks using it! Talk about generic ... !!!! I do think "they" are going through a "prog  phase" and will forget it when they grow up and the dope says your _____ is not as big as you thought it was! (R. Pryor)
 
 
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Points: 160 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2014 at 08:17
A response to Steve G.  Since Dire Straits disbanded years ago, I think people tend to forget about Mark Knopfler.  One of the best guitarists on the planet, although I think the songs Knopfler wrote for Dire Straits are only intermittently interesting.  The soundtrack to the movie Twister, a mediocre movie, has a lot of great music on it.  The best song is by Knopfler, called "So Far Away".  I highly recommend you check it out; the guitar solo is amazing!
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Points: 2673 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2014 at 09:04
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:


Some musicians who can play like Alan Holdsworth, Wayne Shorter, George Duke, or Billy Cobham   live in this unearthly world that cannot connect itself to many people socially. It's not a matter of reaching out to everyone so they can understand you are different, ..it's the lonely and freakish nature that exists inside yourself. If your musician friends are not around ..you can't relate to anyone. I believe Ray Davies felt like this? He lost his sister in an automobile accident and she was the one who had inspired him to gain interest in music. Most of his lyrics mocked England and by listening to those lyrics about his social environment...I got the impression at a very young age..that I had been following stories written by a very disappointed young Englishman. Then he spoke about being free. He talked about the escapism of life and justified it by further expressing in a song that there was nothing directly wrong socially with being that way. He made suggestions in his lyrics to follow another path of life and NOT the one that any particular country/goverment or media had set up for us. He did this without being Psychedelic or groovy. He wasn't like everyone else in the 60's and was actually..a kind of misfit. Another phase which can offer you up as an ideal candidate for psychiatric treatment.


I can relate to the loner relationship to his or her music, Todd. Most of the music I listen is off the mainstream and is not appreciated by the masses, so as l developed a way to enjoy a lot of it in isolation from my peers. People in society are very closed minded and myopic. Sometimes I still feel sad when I hear a great new song from some genre and can't share it with people, but not because the loss is mine. It's because the loss is theirs due to their closed mindedness and rigid thought process.


Interetsing comment Steve. I was thinking of starting a topic along these lines, and you've inspired me to do so. Big smile
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