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Topic Closed2nd Round Portland Bracket: ELP v. Camel

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Poll Question: Really? PICK ELP !!!!!!!
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
60 [48.78%]
63 [51.22%]
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kenethlevine View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 12:34
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Originally posted by Friday13th Friday13th wrote:

VDGG and Renaissance too...but nah, lacking a killer guitarist is never a plus.

while Renaissance didn't have a killer guitarist, at least they always had a full time guitarist, even if he only played acoustic guitar for most of his tenure.  I and my colleague ClemofNazareth might be in the minority, but we both rated "A Song for all Seasons" as their best, and part of that had to do with the lead guitar presence.
 A permanent guitarist without any input is not interesting to me, for instance even Alice Cooper who is a rock metal band not prog, had two guitarists playing at the same time, good ones. Wink big hug Hug

I love acoustic guitar, and to me there's a world of difference between having no guitarist and having just an acoustic guitarist.  Dunford's acoustic guitar was an integral part of Renaissance classics like "Black Flame" and "Carpet of the Sun", even if it was not the primary instrument.  But yeah it got better when they started using lead, and two guitarists can make things even more interesting.  One can play acoustic and the other electric  Confused
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 12:38
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Originally posted by Friday13th Friday13th wrote:

VDGG and Renaissance too...but nah, lacking a killer guitarist is never a plus.

while Renaissance didn't have a killer guitarist, at least they always had a full time guitarist, even if he only played acoustic guitar for most of his tenure.  I and my colleague ClemofNazareth might be in the minority, but we both rated "A Song for all Seasons" as their best, and part of that had to do with the lead guitar presence.
 A permanent guitarist without any input is not interesting to me, for instance even Alice Cooper who is a rock metal band not prog, had two guitarists playing at the same time, good ones. Wink big hug Hug

I love acoustic guitar, and to me there's a world of difference between having no guitarist and having just an acoustic guitarist.  Dunford's acoustic guitar was an integral part of Renaissance classics like "Black Flame" and "Carpet of the Sun", even if it was not the primary instrument.  But yeah it got better when they started using lead, and two guitarists can make things even more interesting.  One can play acoustic and the other electric  Confused
Oh yes kenethlevine, good point you made above, I have to agree with you too. Hug Hug
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 14:15
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

ELP was technically brilliant, just emotionally barren.  I listen to music primarily for the emotions it stirs.  Camel does it for me


Amen, brother! Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 14:28
I still haven't voted yet, BTW...
"Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent."

Charles Bukowski
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 15:15
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Stool Man Stool Man wrote:

Camel didn't make Love Beach.

Neither Trilogy or Brain Salad Surgery.

Only the ones who take the risk can ruin an album.

Playing Pictures at an Exhibition before a myriad of hippies who didn't even knew who Mussorgsky was, is a risk

Camel always played safe with soporiferous albums.

I can only listen Moonmadness without feeling an urge to go to sleep .

Iván

I suddenly feel the urge to give Ivan a big hug for some reasonLOL

I actually like Camel even if they are the absolute epitome of 'MOR prog'.Sleepy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 15:43
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Stool Man Stool Man wrote:

Camel didn't make Love Beach.

Neither Trilogy or Brain Salad Surgery.

Only the ones who take the risk can ruin an album.

Playing Pictures at an Exhibition before a myriad of hippies who didn't even knew who Mussorgsky was, is a risk

Camel always played safe with soporiferous albums.

I can only listen Moonmadness without feeling an urge to go to sleep .

Iván

Kind of sums up my views, though I probably like Mirage more than any ELP album.  Even Mirage was heavily derivative of a lot of Canterbury.

Er, no it wasn't. Camel didn't know where Canterbury was until Richard Sinclair joined.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 15:57
Originally posted by Tuzvihar Tuzvihar wrote:

I still haven't voted yet, BTW...

well, vote with your heart not with your head or some appendage with which ELP fanatics seem obsessed  Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 15:59
Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Stool Man Stool Man wrote:

Camel didn't make Love Beach.

Neither Trilogy or Brain Salad Surgery.

Only the ones who take the risk can ruin an album.

Playing Pictures at an Exhibition before a myriad of hippies who didn't even knew who Mussorgsky was, is a risk

Camel always played safe with soporiferous albums.

I can only listen Moonmadness without feeling an urge to go to sleep .

Iván

Kind of sums up my views, though I probably like Mirage more than any ELP album.  Even Mirage was heavily derivative of a lot of Canterbury.

Er, no it wasn't. Camel didn't know where Canterbury was until Richard Sinclair joined.

LOL 
Thank heavens Richard set them straight on that!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 16:41
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Originally posted by Tuzvihar Tuzvihar wrote:

I still haven't voted yet, BTW...

well, vote with your heart not with your head or some appendage with which ELP fanatics seem obsessed  Wink


It it is his heart that General Micky is counting on LOL HeartClap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 16:47
as well on counting on him recognizing what these lovely gentlemen expressed so succinctly.

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Stool Man Stool Man wrote:

Camel didn't make Love Beach.

Neither Trilogy or Brain Salad Surgery.

Only the ones who take the risk can ruin an album.

Playing Pictures at an Exhibition before a myriad of hippies who didn't even knew who Mussorgsky was, is a risk

Camel always played safe with soporiferous albums.

I can only listen Moonmadness without feeling an urge to go to sleep .

Iván


because... though ELP did swing and miss at times... but when they made contact.. they hit moonshots..

Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

To me nothing I have heard from Camel even approaches the best that ELP had to offer. 


consistency is just another word for mediocrity... only the best like ELP and King Crimson really made creative risks. Sure ELP missed... but they connected AS many if not more. Those first 5 albums are mandatory prog albums in ANY prog fans collection.  They are part of the basic DNA of prog rock.  Nothing Camel did qualifies as either. Mandatory or genre defining. Clap




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 16:58
This poll is breathtaking Stern Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 17:00
Taking creative risks is a great thing when a band like King Crimson does it as they never fail to connect with me emotionally. Just like Camel often does. ELP were mediocre as experimentalists and I've never considered experimenting interesting by default.    
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 17:04
I'd say that Camel had a magic about them. Their work was beautiful when at its best. ELP didn't have that magic only because their style was different, favouring classical infused experimentation. They pulled it off many a time, and when they did it was mindblowing instead.

Both are great in their own right.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 17:06
Quick! Get the camel some water for Pete's sake!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 17:08
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by Kentucky_Hawkwindage Kentucky_Hawkwindage wrote:

Originally posted by Stool Man Stool Man wrote:

Camel didn't make Love Beach.
I voted for ELP but i don't anyone who handle Love Beach.That was indeed a bummer of an album.
hahaha!! Kentucky_Hawkwindage, I like ELP a lot too. Love Beach is the worst argument in stating how good they are hahaha!! The worst album they ever made reallyLOL. hugs Hug
Kati-Thanks for the hug! One needs a hug when there's talk of Love Beach!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 17:11
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Taking creative risks is a great thing when a band like King Crimson does it as they never fail to connect with me emotionally. Just like Camel often does. ELP were mediocre as experimentalists and I've never considered experimenting interesting by default.    


hah. Sounds like another bullsh*t ELP criticism. Along with being too serious, too pretentious all the while while people hammer them for NOT being such in lighter more off beat 'fun' tracks they did to lighten the mood of their albums. So it is to lack of emotion with ELP. Is that the critcism of the day to throw at them Bullsh*t. LOL

I'm all for music connecting emotionally. It is the single most important thing I look for myself.  ELP does. Emotion is not simply soft and sensitive. We are humans.. full of innate rage and agreession and music very often is that release we have to keep from expressing it in very real ways.

 That is what I love most about ELP'smusic.  It is damn well emotional. As Ivan noted earlier.. ELP is pure adrenalin... and music that is extremely aggressive and hits you over the head inspires emotions just as valid and as strong as the urge to chill out, fall f**king asleep or OD on vallium as Camel does.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 17:30
listen to the buildup and denouement of the title track of Camel's "Stationary Traveller", often considered one of their lesser albums, from 1984.  That's all the raw aggression and emotion I need in my music.    

As for ELP's fun light tracks, they all came across as unfunny jokes, that's why people criticized them for those efforts, not because they weren't serious enough.  If you are going to be light and funny, do it well.  See "Back on the Farm" from Camel's "Breathless" album for an example.  Don't dream about the freakin Wild West as if you have a clue LOL.  God did ELP suck


Edited by kenethlevine - December 17 2014 at 17:31
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 17:30
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

hah. Sounds like another bullsh*t ELP criticism. 
Its not bullsh*t to me as its how I respond to them. ELP's music is kind of emotional I guess as there's not many bands that has a sound that I find so repulsive that it makes me want to destroy... things. Of course there's not much to discuss. I can't stand ELP you fall asleep to Camel.

Edited by Saperlipopette! - December 17 2014 at 17:51
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 17:37
"Emotion is not simply soft and sensitive. We are humans.. full of innate rage and agreession and music very often is that release we have to keep from expressing it in very real ways."
You'd think proggers would know this more than anyone. I still think Camel rules, but some truly rushing moments come from ELP and especially Keith that get me giddy inside As true of an emotion as any.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 18:26
Emotion is an essential part of any damn good symphonic-wise prog piece, ELP does not only satisfies this requisite qualifications but often exceeds it with their genuine lush and manic kind of energy that literally wants to conquer the world!, and this especially Keith Emerson managed to bring so brilliantly out from the classical world (the most emotional music world that I've ever listened to, one of the main reasons it's my long time favourite form of music.)


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