| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
ProgPassion 
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 07 2014
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 35
|
 Topic: Compositions in Zappa Live Albums
Posted: December 20 2014 at 18:26 |
|
I know Zappa has several of these - I'm curious as to what you think of the compositions within them. Thus far two have caught my attention (Roxy & Elsewhere, Zappa in New York) because they contain mostly original compositions, and I don't see the point of having a live album in which tracks previously existing are performed. What do you think? Is it worth having more than just these live albums?
|
 |
Barbu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: infinity
Status: Offline
Points: 30845
|
Posted: December 20 2014 at 18:41 |
|
You can go with 'Broadway the Hard Way' too.
But for me, studio Frank is as good as live Frank.
|
|
LearsFool
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 09 2014
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 8617
|
Posted: December 20 2014 at 18:51 |
|
Make A Jazz Noise Here has plenty of non-studio stuff, and great takes on studio tracks as well. It's a must have.
|
|
The.Crimson.King
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2013
Location: WA
Status: Offline
Points: 4591
|
Posted: December 20 2014 at 19:37 |
For me YCDTOSA Vol 2 The Helsinki Concert is the crown jewel. If I had to only choose 1 live FZ album, this would be the one 
|
|
|
|
Syzygy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 16 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 7003
|
Posted: December 21 2014 at 03:50 |
|
I agree with the recommendations of Make a Jazz Noise Here and the Helsinki Concert. Zappa live albums generally contain previously unreleased material, and previously released songs will be rearranged, sometimes quite radically.
I like the Shut Up 'n' Play Yer Guitar and Guitar albums, but maybe they're more for the already committed rather than the casual listener.
|
|
'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'
Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom
|
|
unclemeat69
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 14 2007
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 350
|
Posted: December 21 2014 at 14:27 |
|
Zappa would usually have a modified or completely different band with each new tour and he would also have a collection of brand new songs along with a bunch of old ones.
The old ones would be rearranged and sometimes not available on any studio album yet.
|
|
Follow your bliss
|
|
ProgPassion
Forum Newbie
Joined: June 07 2014
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 35
|
Posted: December 21 2014 at 16:24 |
Thank you for the replies. The reason I have Roxy & Elsewhere is because all the compositions are original. Zappa in New York: Disc one, every track apart from Cruisin for Burgers is original. Disc two, everything apart from I'm the Slime, Big Leg Emma and The Torture Never Stops is original. With pretty much every other live release it's the other way around: only 1-3 original tracks. I can't tell whether they are worth getting :(
|
|
zravkapt
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 12 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6446
|
Posted: December 21 2014 at 17:12 |
 ProgPassion wrote:
The reason I have Roxy & Elsewhere is because all the compositions are original.
|
Not exactly. "Trouble Every Day" was reworked into "More Trouble Every Day" and "Oh No" and "The Orange County Lumber Truck" were reworked into "Son Of Orange County". Guitar and the Shut Up 'N Play Yer Guitar albums have the most original material but are entirely instrumental. Some of the Flo & Eddie-era live albums feature stuff not on the studio albums like the epic "Billy The Mountain".
|
|
Magma America Great Make Again
|
|
TCat
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 07 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 11612
|
Posted: December 26 2014 at 20:28 |
I guess it all depends on how big of a Zappa fan you want to be. Many Zappa fans demand to have as many live albums as possible because of several reasons: There is a lot of improvisational work on many of Zappa's longer compositions and they can change a lot depending on what the band line-up is. Fans look for what FZ liked to call "eyebrows" which are things that are specifically added to concerts to make them unique. He encouraged his bands to improvise not only with the instruments but also with the lyrics, the humor, and with audience participation. There are a lot of songs in his concerts that were slated to become studio tracks but because of bootlegging, Frank would call off projects or cancel certain tracks from being included on albums. Rabid fans look for even small differences in performances. Some live albums are definitely worth getting because of the quality of the musicianship and the performance. There are some amazing performances on pretty much every live album. The ones to be careful of are the albums that are official releases of bootleg albums, which there are a lot out there. Though they may have value to rabid fans, the sound quality and production values of these are pretty much untouched, so they can be poorly done. With a lot of artists, it can be assumed that if you have a studio version, that you don't need a live version. That is a difficult issue when it comes to FZ. Plus you have to decide which type of FZ you like, the humorous side, the jazz/fusion side, the classical side, the rock side or the avant garde side. With Frank, there is always so much to choose from. Make sure to research the album if you aren't sure, that's probably the best way to decide. Hope this helps somehow though I probably only made things worse.  |
|
TCat
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 07 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 11612
|
Posted: December 26 2014 at 20:35 |
|
By the way, "Broadway the Hard Way" is great like others have mentioned. Also, if you can tolerate a little Captain Beefheart then "Bongo Fury" is really good as is "The Best Band You Never Heard in Your Life" for some great originals and some surprising covers like Ravel's "Bolero" and "Stairway to Heaven"
|
|
Intruder
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 13 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 2084
|
Posted: December 31 2014 at 09:26 |
|
The Best Band You've Never Heard is my favorite Zappa live album mainly 'cause of his "interpretations" of all kinds of music....that band could switch time, genre, even instruments at the drop of a hat. That would've been a motherhumper of a tour to see.
|
|
I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
|
|
Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: The Idiocracy
Status: Offline
Points: 5482
|
Posted: December 31 2014 at 12:13 |
^Saw the two Boston shows. Both were incredible. And there was not much overlap between the two shows. I saw two shows on one night back in 1980. Smaller band, but still 2 very different sets.
|
|
Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
|
|
uduwudu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 17 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 2601
|
Posted: January 02 2015 at 02:51 |
ProgPassion wrote:
Thank you for the replies. The reason I have Roxy & Elsewhere is because all the compositions are original. Zappa in New York: Disc one, every track apart from Cruisin for Burgers is original. Disc two, everything apart from I'm the Slime, Big Leg Emma and The Torture Never Stops is original. With pretty much every other live release it's the other way around: only 1-3 original tracks. I can't tell whether they are worth getting :( |
They are worth getting. Frank did not repeat himself. Different bands, different players, different versions. We cannot assess FZ by the same standard as anyone else.
E.g The Helsinki Concert and Roxy have the same number Village Of The Sun. I prefer the Roxy version, a bit slower and one of the few times FZ is more mainstream and the music appeals as a soul number to me more than in Helsinki. Just a humble opinion of mine between the two versions.
There is so much unpredictability and innovation that any and all Zappa is worth checking out. Maybe not everything will appeal e.g. his Synclavier work never got me that much but his classical does (Ensemble Modern). I love his bootlegs and the occasional 20 minute heavy rock guitar solo stuff. Not to mention all the satire that turns up. Interesting things happen like the demos of Orchestral Favourites I prefer over the original.. er, final LP.
Being worried about duplicating material is the least concern a listener should have with Zappa. The closest concern for this may be the 4 albums that sprang from the finally released Lather. Even then you get an instrumental Gregory Peccary and a vocal version.
Essentially virtually and and all FZ albums are unique individual experiences.
Maybe one day his jam with Pink Floyd will get officially released...
|
|
moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16148
|
Posted: January 02 2015 at 12:45 |
Hi,
Say what you want, about FZ and his work, but the fact that he did different things everywhere, not only in concert, pretty much shows his ability, and talent, everything else not withstanding, specially the personal side of things and some unsavory comments and discussions about his lyrics.
Perhaps we will never really know/understand all this, and what created him, but I tend to think that his own folks (and Trust) do not know him at all, and still think of him as some sort of guitar/rock hero, when the guitar was really just another instrument for him, but it happened to be the one that he was very flexible with and able to play well!
This is probably the greatest issue with the Trust ... I am not sure they have any idea, what to call the stuff they have in the vaults, and all the experimentations that are nowhere near anything that we all know ... and if that is the case (I did say IF) ... then Frank Zappa is grossly mis-represented as a guitar this and that, or a rock icon of some sort!
I'm not convinced that there are enough people that respect his work, mostly because of his lyrics and some of his attitudes, that were counter-productive to his appeal to the general public. In the end, is this any different than so many other artists in the history of music, literature and the arts? ... the answer is NO, it isn't! There are far worse other folks that had much worse material than Frank!
|
|
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
|
|
KingCrInuYasha
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 26 2010
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1281
|
Posted: January 02 2015 at 19:38 |
|
I have the Ahead Of Their Time album, if only to hear that version of "The Orange County Lumber Truck", which absolutely destroys the version on Weasels Ripped My Flesh.
Edited by KingCrInuYasha - January 02 2015 at 19:38
|
|
He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
|
|
Skullhead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 06 2014
Location: Vancouver BC
Status: Offline
Points: 160
|
Posted: January 03 2015 at 03:19 |
|
"The Black Page"
End of story
|
|
Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
|
Posted: January 03 2015 at 04:08 |
Syzygy wrote:
(...)
I like the Shut Up 'n' Play Yer Guitar and Guitar albums, but maybe they're more for the already committed rather than the casual listener. |
I like Shut Up 'n' Play Yer Guitar also, together with Live in New York By the way, as a little kid I saw him live for the first time in former Yugoslavia, in December 1975.
|
|
progrockdeepcuts
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 14 2013
Location: West Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 394
|
Posted: January 03 2015 at 15:49 |
|
YES!
Because Frank's compositions were CONSTANTLY evolving. I don't know what your tastes are in terms of Frank's music, but I highly suggest you get both Road Tapes 1 and 2 (the first is the 68 band, the second - the 73 band), Roxy by Proxy, and Philly 76 for some AMAZING concert experiences. Throw in the Token of his Extreme DVD (live from 1974) and you'll be a happy camper. Trust me.
Happy listening!!
|
|
Listen to older shows here: mixcloud.com/progrockdeepcuts/
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Compositions in Zappa Live Albums