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Gerinski View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2014 at 16:00
Originally posted by Tuzvihar Tuzvihar wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Sorry I don't seem to be able to show the graphs and data tables in larger size, they are big in the source file but they become smaller when displayed, I'l try to fix it. Suggestions welcome.


If you right-click on a pic and choose the option "Show the picture" from the context menu then the pic is shown in a correct size.
What do you mean? I don't see any option "Show the picture", but indeed if I right-click and then "Open image in new tab", the image (graph, data table) shows bigger in a new tab.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2014 at 16:04
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Looks like Krautrock doesn't exist in recent yearsShockedCry

Yeah, Progressive Electronic is pretty absent too...

Hardly too surprising though. Although there's been a resurgence of the motorik groove in recent years, especially in synth pop, punk and psychedelic music, there are still quite few bands that play 'genuine' Krautrock....at least the stuff that'll get them included on PA anyways.
Then again, that seems to be the genre's eternal cross/legacy: HUGELY inspirational and influential to other genres yet somewhat neglected in the larger scheme of things.

Electronic though will always be an outsider category on PA, but that's probably down to the site (mostly) revolving around (p)rock methinks.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2014 at 16:06
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by Tuzvihar Tuzvihar wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Sorry I don't seem to be able to show the graphs and data tables in larger size, they are big in the source file but they become smaller when displayed, I'l try to fix it. Suggestions welcome.


If you right-click on a pic and choose the option "Show the picture" from the context menu then the pic is shown in a correct size.
What do you mean? I don't see any option "Show the picture", but indeed if I right-click and then "Open image in new tab", the image (graph, data table) shows bigger in a new tab.


That's what I meant. I just have a Polish version of the system and the browser and I translated the option name to English. Smile
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Gerinski View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2014 at 16:07
Another curiosity, zero Neo albums in the 1986 top (where only 21 albums show up).

I didn't mention that the selection was for studio albums only, and as we know Proto-Prog and Prog-Related are excluded from the Tops
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2014 at 16:08
Originally posted by Tuzvihar Tuzvihar wrote:


That's what I meant. I just have a Polish version of the system and the browser and I translated the option name to English. Smile
TX Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2014 at 16:25
Another fact, as can be seen from the data of Sub-Genres along the years: Neo-Prog seems to be a very healthy and long-lived sub-genre, it had a first peak taking 20% of the Top 100 in 1984, but it repeated a 20% in 1998 and again a 20% in 2013, the same share 30 years later after its first peak. The last time Symphonic got a 20% share was in 1988, and the last time Progressive Metal took a 20% share was in 1998.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2014 at 16:30
I'm merely speculating here, but I think it has something to do with Neo being one of the sole subs on here to sound like the classic symph bands. People like what they've always liked...also in updated form. The same goes for any other fan of say psychedelic music or strange angular avant. Symph though seems like it's always been the most attractive to the majority of members.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2014 at 16:42
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

I'm merely speculating here, but I think it has something to do with Neo being one of the sole subs on here to sound like the classic symph bands. People like what they've always liked...also in updated form. The same goes for any other fan of say psychedelic music or strange angular avant. Symph though seems like it's always been the most attractive to the majority of members.
Indeed, but it seems that in the last years Neo is surpassing Symph, the pupil overtakes the teacher
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2014 at 17:14
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

I'm merely speculating here, but I think it has something to do with Neo being one of the sole subs on here to sound like the classic symph bands. People like what they've always liked...also in updated form. The same goes for any other fan of say psychedelic music or strange angular avant. Symph though seems like it's always been the most attractive to the majority of members.
Indeed, but it seems that in the last years Neo is surpassing Symph, the pupil overtakes the teacher

Or there are more "Neo" bands releasing albums.
Or there are more groups releasing new albums that have been categoriezed "Neo."
Or there are less groups arriving on the scene that the symphonic team allows into their fold. 
Or . . .

P.S. I love your work, Gerinski! Kudos! (Another dude with too much time on his hands!)
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2014 at 21:18
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

It's just too bad I can't get the graphs and figures look bigger on the screen, I'm afraid the figures are hardly visible at all. I don't know why this happens, the source pics are big but they are shown smaller in the thread Cry


Holy sh*t, Gerrard. Holy sh*t. Your efforts are incredible and I'm able to read/see your graphs just fine.
Thank you so much. Statistical analysis done very very well.

You're hired.

P.s Neo Prog is kicking ass. Love it.
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2014 at 02:48
As adviced by Tuzvihar, fore those seeing the images too small on the thread, right-clicking and "open image in new tab" should show them in full size.

Of course this is a snapshot of the situation today, the data is constantly changing, even for past years, based on the continuous flow of new ratings and reviews by members for albums from all times. When I say something like "Neo reached a peak share of 20% of the Top 100 in 1984", this only means that as of today, that's what the data of the 1984 albums looks like. A couple of years ago or a couple of years from now, the data for 1984 albums was / will be probably different.
As mentioned by someone, the data reflects only the preferences and behaviour of PA members.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2014 at 03:17

Above, some of the results I reported in a similar (identical) analysis on PA. Last year.

Will add supplementary data later....

The analysis can be found here: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=95494&PN=2



Edited by earlyprog - December 30 2014 at 06:36
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2014 at 03:32
It looks like I could have saved you for a lot of work Gerinski LOL

Hope you had a nice Christmas anyway.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2014 at 04:47
^ Indeed, just the same Tongue
Thanks and congratulations for that too!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2014 at 04:52
^Thanks for adopting my ideas and concepts and for verification of the results of my analysis Thumbs Up

I'm only glad if you can develop it further.

You can find further improvements to the analysis in my thread referenced above.

Peace & Love


Edited by earlyprog - December 30 2014 at 07:50
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2014 at 08:07
Gerinski,

It's very interesting to see a really different thread here.  Great job, Gerinski!  It's prompting me to look at the top albums for 2013 and 2014, and try to determine why there's such a massive change in the number of 4 star albums.  Isn't that exactly the kind of thing we're supposed to do with statistics? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2014 at 08:32
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

...
I know statistics have only the value you want to give them, and even more when they are about some rather arbitrary data system as PA, but I had some time to kill so I checked some data of PA's Top Albums by year and made a couple of statistics, just for some fun and hopefully fueling some debate (I know Pedro 'Moshkito' will yell at the Top Albums stuff Wink).
 
It's not always a meaningless yell ... but if you can't tell the difference ... it won't matter, will it?
 
BTW ... very nice job. Needs a bit better perspective for my TASTES, even if historical, which databases tend to ignore. Ex: there was a war and no one came to the website because it was down. The resulting numbers would not equate as valuable information, even if the percentages were similar,
 
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

...
One of my frequent tasks at my previous job was data analysis from relational databases so I can have fun playing with data and building up statistics.
 
One of the best gamer and players I ever worked with, was a guy in Everquest, and he was retired from the SF Fire Department and a database expert. He had broken down all the "Enchanter" spells into the smithreens, and he was a deadly player! His wife played a Mage and she was just as deadly a player. You never wanted to play against them ... it was a guaranteed loss because he knew what numbers would be more useful and where.
 
I have no issue with statistics, except the sado-masochism that comes with it. That is ... the number is law, and you and I are nothing! The "interpretation" is only as valuable as the quality of the information and how it was "intended" to be used, and NOT what was (always) found.
 
Database or not, music always was, progressive or not, and these websites, never took off until AFTER 1990, with the Fido/Telnet stuff, so evaluations from before the days of the message base and its derivatives, that led to these websites 10 years later, would be an evaluation of people's memories and their favorite albums "then", and not always a reality that went all year round like it does now, and more folks can see it and vote. I doubt that the results would be "fair" to the artists, though I do not question that a sizeable percentage probably fits, even if it was not quite incorrect.
 
The fact, is/was that a lot more music was available in 1972/73/74 than later when 2 bands signed humungous money contracts for distribution that killed the innovation across the board in America and Europe. It left little room for smaller stuff, most of which went "underground", and into the "college circuit" and other venues. TODAY, you and I can easily say that most of them survived, however, for many years, they didn't!  This kinda reflects differently when people say that prog/progressive died in the 80's, which is a perception between the media explosion, and the eventual telnet/fido explosion that helped bring up these kinds of boards like PA and their database uses! But it leaves a 20 year area open in the middle that will always show "less", or "not as many", as the others.
 
I'm not sure that the mentioning of people's favorites in any year, is a good sentiment of the general "progressive" understanding and mood, and we are thinking that a database is just like a person, and that is not the case. I am one of those numbers as are you, but we do not agree with many of those years, that i did not vote for any of those albums! For it to be "right" and "fair", you and I would have to vote for ALL the years the database represented, and I think I have voted in NONE ... unless the three or four reviews I entered at PA are included. I only review the 4.5 and 5, and will not say anything bad about any albums otherwise in a review ... I don't see the point in hurting our beloeved "progressive" by saying something is bad and a copy ... in a REVIEW ... in the threads it is done for fun!
 


Edited by moshkito - December 30 2014 at 09:26
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Gerinski View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2014 at 09:06
Originally posted by thwok thwok wrote:

Gerinski,

It's very interesting to see a really different thread here.  Great job, Gerinski!  It's prompting me to look at the top albums for 2013 and 2014, and try to determine why there's such a massive change in the number of 4 star albums.  Isn't that exactly the kind of thing we're supposed to do with statistics? 
I was intrigued by that too. The figures in the Top 100 only give me the number of ratings for each album but not the split how many ratings without review, with review by member or with review by collab, which as we know have different weight, so the analysis possible is rather limited. What I could see is that the 2013 albums have quite more ratings than the 2014 albums, and that is probably causing the overall rating of the 2014 albums to stay relatively low. The 2013 Top albums have an average of 145,6 ratings per album, while for 2014 it's only 93 ratings per album as average. So I would assume that as ratings for 2014 albums keep flowing, the number of >= 4.00 albums will increase (if those ratings are high of course).

The average in the Top 20 stays high at 4.13, so it just means that for 2014 there are a lot of albums in the very high 3's, just needing a small kick to get over the 4.00 barrier.


Edited by Gerinski - December 30 2014 at 09:24
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2014 at 09:12
Great job Gerard! Clap But where did you find the time to do it?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2014 at 09:17
Also worth noticing that although 2013 has a record of albums >= 4.00 with 68 of them, the average rating of the Top 20 is not among the highest at 4.15. For 2005 there are only 34 albums >= 4.00 but the average of the Top 20 is higher at 4.20. So in 2013 there are many albums in the low 4.00's but few "super-albums" in the near-to-5.00 region.

At any rate it seems that Prog is well alive and kicking ass Tongue
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