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Topic ClosedProg, Rolling Stone & Class Distinctions.

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uduwudu View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2015 at 01:16
Tony Banks remarked in a filmed interview somewhere remarked that when pop and rock existed as Genesis emerged and the more classically oriented young musicians of the day (him and co) merely added their input. Bill Bruford (I think) also commented in much the same way, demurring any pretension as he would.

That was all really. Some sophistication to see if it worked. (I think it did...) But human nature being as suspicious and conservative as it is, when some publication plumps an appropriately inflammatory piece of prose down in front of people to be provocative it causes dissension, discussion and diatribes.

Does this publication or any of it's sympathizers think those of a say, working class disposition, not have the necessary qualities to appreciate anything more than something basic? Worse, that something really crude and basic is all popular music should have for it's aspirations? The implication being we humble ordinaries are incapable of enjoying music without assigning some non musical value to it?

I say, never mind that bollocks it's only rock and roll. Ours is no disgrace!


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2015 at 14:34
Originally posted by uduwudu uduwudu wrote:

Does this publication or any of it's sympathizers think those of a say, working class disposition, not have the necessary qualities to appreciate anything more than something basic? Worse, that something really crude and basic is all popular music should have for it's aspirations? The implication being we humble ordinaries are incapable of enjoying music without assigning some non musical value to it?

A working class fellow like Steve Hackett, for example.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2015 at 00:46
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by uduwudu uduwudu wrote:

Does this publication or any of it's sympathizers think those of a say, working class disposition, not have the necessary qualities to appreciate anything more than something basic? Worse, that something really crude and basic is all popular music should have for it's aspirations? The implication being we humble ordinaries are incapable of enjoying music without assigning some non musical value to it?

A working class fellow like Steve Hackett, for example.
Mr Hackett is a great maestro wthout a doubt, but I'd like to mind you that Genesis sound was developed at Trespass the album with Anthony Phillips who was a driven force behind the band at that time and who wasn't a member of English working class.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2015 at 12:44
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^Good points. Symphonic prog did seem to be RS's  real enemy and the groups listed above are what I considered to be leaning more toward Crossover Prog as opposed to full on prog, and is the real reason why they are listed or rated by RS.
However, two Santana's, one Captain Beefheart's album and two The Mothers of Invention's albums are on the list; those albums are prog rock albums and very important albums of our beloved genre but not a kind of prog rock that we called *Crossover Prog* decades later. Also, Brian Eno's Another Green World  is on the list and that album also have nothing to do with a kind of modern prog rock that we call *Crossover Prog*, e.g. listed Radiohead's albums that, I can bet in a hard cash, the RS journalists never were recognized as *Crossover Prog* as well.
 
Btw, Steve, do you agree that it remains a mystery how a good guy like Brian Eno - who was an art student & who was spent almost all 70s at his apartment or in the studio - found his place on the RS list which is full of the albums by major rock desperados?
Isn't a kind of mistery how RS boys, who evidently hate Symphonic rock (or even the worst case is really possible: they thought maybe that Symphonic rock is not rock at all as well as some people think that e.g. Knifeworld's Send Him A Seaworthy is not a prog rock song) that they forgot that in spite of those fanatics of Symphonic rock that to decorate
 their list with e.g. Discipline by King Crimson, and therefore that Discipline the album that to be the only one KC's album on that RS list?
Well, it shows all the silly spirit of all of those kind of lists, methinks.
And consenquently none of these "the greatest..." lists can not explain that class distinction in 70s as a pretty complex sociological & curturally phenomenon that was very influential on British rock (in general) in 70s without a shade of doubt .
As for Eno's inclusion on the RS "greatest of all time list",  I can only guess that Eno's producing credits of Bowie and U2 is what really swayed their decision. But again, I'm just speculating.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2015 at 12:52
^ Roxy Music has always been a favourite of people who otherwise despise prog as well.
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2015 at 12:54
^True. I think Roxy Music gets some kind of 'proto new wave' pass with RS.
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Svetonio View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2015 at 18:01
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^Good points. Symphonic prog did seem to be RS's  real enemy and the groups listed above are what I considered to be leaning more toward Crossover Prog as opposed to full on prog, and is the real reason why they are listed or rated by RS.
However, two Santana's, one Captain Beefheart's album and two The Mothers of Invention's albums are on the list; those albums are prog rock albums and very important albums of our beloved genre but not a kind of prog rock that we called *Crossover Prog* decades later. Also, Brian Eno's Another Green World  is on the list and that album also have nothing to do with a kind of modern prog rock that we call *Crossover Prog*, e.g. listed Radiohead's albums that, I can bet in a hard cash, the RS journalists never were recognized as *Crossover Prog* as well.
 
Btw, Steve, do you agree that it remains a mystery how a good guy like Brian Eno - who was an art student & who was spent almost all 70s at his apartment or in the studio - found his place on the RS list which is full of the albums by major rock desperados?
Isn't a kind of mistery how RS boys, who evidently hate Symphonic rock (or even the worst case is really possible: they thought maybe that Symphonic rock is not rock at all as well as some people think that e.g. Knifeworld's Send Him A Seaworthy is not a prog rock song) that they forgot that in spite of those fanatics of Symphonic rock that to decorate
 their list with e.g. Discipline by King Crimson, and therefore that Discipline the album that to be the only one KC's album on that RS list?
Well, it shows all the silly spirit of all of those kind of lists, methinks.
And consenquently none of these "the greatest..." lists can not explain that class distinction in 70s as a pretty complex sociological & curturally phenomenon that was very influential on British rock (in general) in 70s without a shade of doubt .
As for Eno's inclusion on the RS "greatest of all time list",  I can only guess that Eno's producing credits of Bowie and U2 is what really swayed their decision. But again, I'm just speculating.
I understand you (Mr Eno produced also Remain In Light ) but then it should be far more logical that they were put on the list My Life In The Bush Of Ghosts  instead of Another Green World.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2015 at 18:31
Originally posted by Lear'sFool Lear'sFool wrote:

^ Roxy Music has always been a favourite of people who otherwise despise prog as well.
Yes, that's right, and I can imagine what kind of psychological trauma that Mr Ferry get at the time when Roxy Music was the opening act for Jethro Tull at U.S. tour LOL
 
 


Edited by Svetonio - January 25 2015 at 18:32
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2015 at 14:48
^Egad! That really is mixing oil and water! LOL
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