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Topic ClosedProg's Origins

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Poll Question: Where do YOU think that prog came from?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
9 [14.52%]
5 [8.06%]
11 [17.74%]
2 [3.23%]
1 [1.61%]
3 [4.84%]
4 [6.45%]
4 [6.45%]
1 [1.61%]
2 [3.23%]
20 [32.26%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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BrufordFreak View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2015 at 09:00
Originally posted by friso friso wrote:

it came mostly from England initially

I get your point but where did these artists get their ideas & impetus? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2015 at 09:02
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

I voted almost everything but for Cage, Stockhausen and Shankar  (which doesn't mean it was not the case, btw)

Certainly, Frisco, the Beats, the drugs, and counter-culture played a major role (actually, they're pretty tied up together)... Technology and modal jazz did a lot as well.




Thanks, Sean! Thought of adding Frisco and UK as choices but then thought, "Where did those people get their ideas and motivations?"
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2015 at 09:05
Originally posted by CPicard CPicard wrote:

Originally posted by zravkapt zravkapt wrote:

Where's the 'all of the above' option?


Yes, that's what I would say. I voted "other" for it would stand for this answer.
The sole fact of the apparition of new instruments (rather than "new technologies", because some technics used in recording studios for pop/rock artists were already a dozen years old) doesn't mean there are always new ways of composing, for example.
Furthermore, I doubt that the cultural roots of progressive rock music are to be searched in the music of John Cage, Stockhausen or Ravi Shankar: how many rock musicians knew who was Shankar before Woodstock?

I toyed with the "all of the above" option but wanted more of the input of "others" cuz I knew that there would be many sources/influences that I had not thought of. Also, I did include the multiple vote option (I know: time suck) and a few kind of overlap...

Also, Shankar and Usted Ali Akbar Kahn had started playing/touring in the West from 1955 on. And I suppose the British would have known traditional Indian music (as well as many other types of music) for long before that with their occupancy of that area. Plus ethnomusicologists had been actively pursuing and gathering indigenous musics on tape since the 1940s.


Edited by BrufordFreak - February 27 2015 at 09:16
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2015 at 09:07
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Just a coincidence, I think

Too funny! On some level of course you're right, but . . . the historian in me can't help but look at the fibers in the weave of the tapestry . . . .
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2015 at 09:09
Originally posted by Walton Street Walton Street wrote:

Prog is one of the earliest styles of music. It originated in the Mississippi Delta, a region of the United States that stretches from Memphis, Tennessee in the north to Vicksburg, Mississippi in the south, Helena, Arkansas in the west to the Yazoo River on the east. The Mississippi Delta area is famous both for its fertile soil and its poverty. Guitar, harmonica and cigar box guitar are the dominant instruments used, with slide guitar (usually on the steel guitar) being a hallmark of the style. The vocal styles range from introspective and soulful to passionate and fiery. Prog is also regarded as a regional variation of country blues.


LOL

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2015 at 09:20
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

An audience receptive to musical exploration and experimentation but with sufficient spending power to make such largesse viable for record label number crunchers in the early 70's

I thought of this too ("Affluence" I would have called it) but also believe that music became more available to and musicianship became more attractive to society as a whole (the 'progresses' made in Labor unions, Civil Rights, and the emergence of a 'middle class' in the West enabled an expansion in the affordability of musical equipment to motivated/inspired 'working class' kids).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2015 at 09:24
I put in Karl Stockhausen because Can's Holger Czukay and Irmin Schmidt had studied with him--and maybe there were others. And Can was pretty close to the beginnings of German Progressive Rock.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2015 at 09:31
It's not one of the poll options but I think literature definitely had an influence on musicians and inspired them to make longer and more experimental tracks. Trying to capture the atmosphere of certain novels forced musicians to try new things. Progressive artists like Klaus Schulze, Richard Pinhas and Bernard Szajner all wrote tracks that were inspired by Frank Herbert's Dune science fiction books for example.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2015 at 09:59
Originally posted by zravkapt zravkapt wrote:

Where's the 'all of the above' option?
Exactly my thoughts.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2015 at 10:00
Originally posted by zravkapt zravkapt wrote:

Where's the 'all of the above' option?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2015 at 10:04
Originally posted by King Only King Only wrote:

It's not one of the poll options but I think literature definitely had an influence on musicians and inspired them to make longer and more experimental tracks. Trying to capture the atmosphere of certain novels forced musicians to try new things. Progressive artists like Klaus Schulze, Richard Pinhas and Bernard Szajner all wrote tracks that were inspired by Frank Herbert's Dune science fiction books for example.

Awesome point! Thumbs UpI do like to think that there were crossover effects between the arts. Kerouac, Ginsberg, Burroughs, Heinlein, Bradbury, Stanislaw Lem, etc., must have inspired creativity among the youth who became artist/musicians.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2015 at 10:47
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Drugs , Counter Culture , New Tech and Zappa!

But where did Zappa get the ideas?


Stravinsky and Varese.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2015 at 10:50
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

I put in Karl Stockhausen because Can's Holger Czukay and Irmin Schmidt had studied with him--and maybe there were others. And Can was pretty close to the beginnings of German Progressive Rock.



Zappa, Beefheart, Richard Wright and Miles Davis were also influenced by Karlheinz Stockhausen.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:00
Bach Big smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxnfyBk6QzM

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:11
Originally posted by zravkapt zravkapt wrote:

Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Drugs , Counter Culture , New Tech and Zappa!

But where did Zappa get the ideas?


Stravinsky and Varese.

Thanks for that! Good to know! (for my research)
Drew Fisher
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:14
Originally posted by hellogoodbye hellogoodbye wrote:

Bach Big smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxnfyBk6QzM


Of course! Awesome vid! A sax quartet!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:15
Originally posted by zravkapt zravkapt wrote:

Where's the 'all of the above' option?
This.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:43
Other :

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2015 at 12:12
Sgt. Pepper's', col-dangit (and let's not forget Tomorrow Never Knows)!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2015 at 12:42
I think Rick Wakemans is the best player of the prog origin.
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