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Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
Posted: April 02 2015 at 23:38
Guldbamsen wrote:
Dean wrote:
Kati wrote:
I am all for the main topic to continue, however considering that I am a nincompoop and a happy one I might add, besides stars etc, I still have no idea what Indus means or stands for on here?
Group hug
As two people have already said: it's "<span style="line-height: 1.4;">Industry" - the thread title got truncated to 50 characters when David corrected the spelleng misteak - probably because he was using his phone to access the forum. </span>
Yep, right on the money Dean (he says still using his useless phone).
Aww, Heston Blumenthal, I am sorry I missed your reply you see I have an excuse for this, it's called being a" nincompoopy|, you see ha! big hug to you, Guldbamsen
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
Posted: April 02 2015 at 23:47
Davesax1965 wrote:
Hi folks, no, I can confirm I've told the admins that I have left the forum and will not be posting here again. This is absolutely my last post.
Simply put, I honestly do not think that heavy metal threads on a prog rock forum are appropriate. Obviously some people are going to have contrary views - to say the least - but I was under the impression that I'd joined a prog rock forum, as the title suggests. There are plenty of other heavy metal forums on the net. Should I go on one of them and talk about Genesis, I would expect a similar response. And deservedly so.
Not a case of me throwing Teddy out of the pram or leaving due to one thread, it's a combination of several factors. I came here to talk about prog rock with likeminded people.
As a PS, I do agree with Dean's comments in his last post - in the main - but I wasn't referring to musical complexity but musical *worth*.
All the best
Dave
Dave I am sorry to see you go, at the end it's up to you of course. To be fair a lot of times many do not agree with other people's taste or point of view, this however does not mean you or who might disagree is right or wrong. At the end of the day, it's you who decided to leave and not due to anyone else. I hope you decide sometime later to return. Hug,
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
Posted: April 03 2015 at 03:18
moshkito wrote:
desistindo wrote:
I wonder why in the metal world every year you see a dozen os albums "praise as wonderful" while in the prog scene is hard to find the same sense of expectation. By which means would you attribute that?
I don't know ... I'm not sure there is a ready answer ... but I tend to lean towards the thought that Genghis Khan was a Venusian Buddhist and his politics were Plutonian Crap!
I kinda think that progressive, going back to the early 1970's took such an incredible lambasting in the press ... I mean even Tangerine Dream was called "washing machine music" ... which ought to tell you what that arsenichole was listening to stoned ... certainly not Tangerine Dream .... and the rock press, for the last 45 years has little appreciation for the work itself, and a lot of appreciation for anything else that is hip and cult or a FAD.
In many ways, some of the folks in metal, are not silly and naive and musically, many of them are well disciplined enough and taught that they do not need your opinion to create their own music, and this was missing in the early days. The system then, was more about the record companies and "someone else", and it made you weary and leery and less able to give in to what the big money folks wanted. Today, things are different enough that a band can make a website, sell their CD's and not give a darn about a record company or a magazine, and still sell stuff ... and of course, by the time they sell a million, most of those magazines that ignored you now think you are a darling, and want you on their cover because you SELL.
Early KC, is a good example ... you realize that these folks only had "themselves" to go by? This is not easy, and needs a very strong internal constitution all around to be able to get that far ... and be able to take it that extra step to nail it down! I think that YES also tried, and ran into a brick wall after the incredible assault of mean spirited folks that only wanted another hit for radio! And it still happens here on this board. No respect, care, or appreciation for the work itself ...
I can look at Dream Theater, and see a band that decided a long time ago, that what they did was OK, if they stuck to their work and their ability, and made sure they were rehearsed enough that they could still do it on the stage. I think that some bands hurt themselves in this area, but in "metal" this is a lot less of a problem, not to mention that the equipment used these days is far easier to control than 40 years ago. Synthesizers were not easy to control (witness Tangerine Dream and the countless live albums in the early days and how different the pieces were), and it made a difference. And maybe this was Rick Wakeman's complaint about TFTO ... it was hard to play it live again, and a massive drain, that took away from his having fun after the show with the girls! Today, it is not an issue and can be done from one workstation alone!
I think we have to be careful in these comparisons ... we're comparing a Lincoln Continental or a Bentley to a Model T ... and that is not exactly a good comparison at all ... and the comments come out very poorly designed or thought out. A professor in college would have told you to go home and re-consider your premise, and I would not wish to discourage you with an F for a grade ... you see the problem now?
Moshkito,
Now you are being very silly, Genghis Khan and the Mongols were Muslims, this is a fact.
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
Posted: April 03 2015 at 03:27
Kati wrote:
moshkito wrote:
desistindo wrote:
I wonder why in the metal world every year you see a dozen os albums "praise as wonderful" while in the prog scene is hard to find the same sense of expectation. By which means would you attribute that?
I don't know ... I'm not sure there is a ready answer ... but I tend to lean towards the thought that Genghis Khan was a Venusian Buddhist and his politics were Plutonian Crap!
I kinda think that progressive, going back to the early 1970's took such an incredible lambasting in the press ... I mean even Tangerine Dream was called "washing machine music" ... which ought to tell you what that arsenichole was listening to stoned ... certainly not Tangerine Dream .... and the rock press, for the last 45 years has little appreciation for the work itself, and a lot of appreciation for anything else that is hip and cult or a FAD.
In many ways, some of the folks in metal, are not silly and naive and musically, many of them are well disciplined enough and taught that they do not need your opinion to create their own music, and this was missing in the early days. The system then, was more about the record companies and "someone else", and it made you weary and leery and less able to give in to what the big money folks wanted. Today, things are different enough that a band can make a website, sell their CD's and not give a darn about a record company or a magazine, and still sell stuff ... and of course, by the time they sell a million, most of those magazines that ignored you now think you are a darling, and want you on their cover because you SELL.
Early KC, is a good example ... you realize that these folks only had "themselves" to go by? This is not easy, and needs a very strong internal constitution all around to be able to get that far ... and be able to take it that extra step to nail it down! I think that YES also tried, and ran into a brick wall after the incredible assault of mean spirited folks that only wanted another hit for radio! And it still happens here on this board. No respect, care, or appreciation for the work itself ...
I can look at Dream Theater, and see a band that decided a long time ago, that what they did was OK, if they stuck to their work and their ability, and made sure they were rehearsed enough that they could still do it on the stage. I think that some bands hurt themselves in this area, but in "metal" this is a lot less of a problem, not to mention that the equipment used these days is far easier to control than 40 years ago. Synthesizers were not easy to control (witness Tangerine Dream and the countless live albums in the early days and how different the pieces were), and it made a difference. And maybe this was Rick Wakeman's complaint about TFTO ... it was hard to play it live again, and a massive drain, that took away from his having fun after the show with the girls! Today, it is not an issue and can be done from one workstation alone!
I think we have to be careful in these comparisons ... we're comparing a Lincoln Continental or a Bentley to a Model T ... and that is not exactly a good comparison at all ... and the comments come out very poorly designed or thought out. A professor in college would have told you to go home and re-consider your premise, and I would not wish to discourage you with an F for a grade ... you see the problem now?
Moshkito,
Now you are being very silly, Genghis Khan and the Mongols were Muslims, this is a fact.
You are being very naughty now.
However he certainly was tolerant of all religion's, even so he was one of the most cruel warlords too to date.
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
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Points: 6253
Posted: April 03 2015 at 03:49
Dean wrote:
Kati wrote:
Moshkito,
Now you are being very silly, Genghis Khan and the Mongols were Muslims, this is a fact.
You are being very naughty now.
Erm... no he wasn't. He was a Tengrist who practised religious tolerance. The Mongolians converted to Islam 200 years after his death.
Dean you are another silly billy, although Genghis Khan practiced Shamanism, most of his advisors were Muslim, he in a way was a believer too, as a Muslim believer..
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
Posted: April 03 2015 at 04:03
Kati wrote:
Dean wrote:
Kati wrote:
Moshkito,
Now you are being very silly, Genghis Khan and the Mongols were Muslims, this is a fact.
You are being very naughty now.
Erm... no he wasn't. He was a Tengrist who practised religious tolerance. The Mongolians converted to Islam 200 years after his death.
Dean you are another silly billy, although Genghis Khan practiced Shamanism, most of his advisors were Muslim, he in a way was a believer too, as a Muslim believer..
Nope, he was most inquisitive although not converted to islam he studied the whole al Quran Islam. Also his advisers were Muslims at the time thus 200 years prior to your belief, this alone is not correct advising him.
Genghis Khan's grandson Berke is who officially converted to Islam.
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
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Points: 10837
Posted: April 03 2015 at 04:13
Kati wrote:
Dean wrote:
Kati wrote:
Moshkito,
Now you are being very silly, Genghis Khan and the Mongols were Muslims, this is a fact.
You are being very naughty now.
Erm... no he wasn't. He was a Tengrist who practised religious tolerance. The Mongolians converted to Islam 200 years after his death.
Dean you are another silly billy, although Genghis Khan practiced Shamanism, most of his advisors were Muslim, he in a way was a believer too, as a Muslim believer..
Wrong! Genghis Khan and his warriors were METALHEADS!
At least, that's what I understood from watching the Bad News documentary...
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Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Posted: April 03 2015 at 04:21
Kati wrote:
Kati wrote:
Dean wrote:
Kati wrote:
Moshkito,
Now you are being very silly, Genghis Khan and the Mongols were Muslims, this is a fact.
You are being very naughty now.
Erm... no he wasn't. He was a Tengrist who practised religious tolerance. The Mongolians converted to Islam 200 years after his death.
Dean you are another silly billy, although Genghis Khan practiced Shamanism, most of his advisors were Muslim, he in a way was a believer too, as a Muslim believer..
Nope, he was most inquisitive although not converted to islam he studied the whole al Quran Islam. Also his advisers were Muslims at the time thus 200 years prior to your belief, this alone is not correct advising him.
Genghis Khan's grandson Berke is who officially converted to Islam.
Big hug to you, Dean
That doesn't make him or the Mongolian nation muslim. He was a tengrist (a form of buddhism), and yes, he did have muslim advisors, just has he had christian, taoist and buddist advisors.
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
Posted: April 03 2015 at 04:22
CPicard wrote:
Kati wrote:
Dean wrote:
Kati wrote:
Moshkito,
Now you are being very silly, Genghis Khan and the Mongols were Muslims, this is a fact.
You are being very naughty now.
Erm... no he wasn't. He was a Tengrist who practised religious tolerance. The Mongolians converted to Islam 200 years after his death.
Dean you are another silly billy, although Genghis Khan practiced Shamanism, most of his advisors were Muslim, he in a way was a believer too, as a Muslim believer..
Wrong! Genghis Khan and his warriors were METALHEADS!
Hahahahahaha!!! CPicard you are the ruler of all
At least, that's what I understood from watching the Bad News documentary...
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
Posted: April 03 2015 at 04:34
Dean wrote:
Kati wrote:
Kati wrote:
Dean wrote:
Kati wrote:
Moshkito,
Now you are being very silly, Genghis Khan and the Mongols were Muslims, this is a fact.
You are being very naughty now.
Erm... no he wasn't. He was a Tengrist who practised religious tolerance. The Mongolians converted to Islam 200 years after his death.
Dean you are another silly billy, although Genghis Khan practiced Shamanism, most of his advisors were Muslim, he in a way was a believer too, as a Muslim believer..
Nope, he was most inquisitive although not converted to islam he studied the whole al Quran Islam. Also his advisers were Muslims at the time thus 200 years prior to your belief, this alone is not correct advising him.
Genghis Khan's grandson Berke is who officially converted to Islam.
Big hug to you, Dean
That doesn't make him or the Mongolian nation muslim. He was a tengrist (a form of buddhism), and yes, he did have muslim advisors, just has he had christian, taoist and buddist advisors.
Dean, to be honest I think he was a none believer of any religion, his top best commanders were Muslims, that he celebrated Easter this too is a fact, however although he was most curious about religion and studied the Al-Quran too no one is certain what his beliefs were, if any.
His strategy was to let his people believe whatever they wanted, that freedom would avoid any revolution against him I think.
Joined: September 10 2010
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Posted: April 03 2015 at 05:49
Evolver wrote:
What an odd turn this thread has taken.
Evolver approves.
Evolver, wow! Has been a while since I heard from you! Of course you would approve, your name relates to progress and even better, it's the first solution, also the pioneers
No wonder you are not boxed in and you are most open-minded thus willing and curious to see where a conversation might lead or change, even if later might change to something very silly whereby the culprit could be me, sorry
Joined: September 10 2010
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Posted: April 03 2015 at 07:10
Back to the forum question, gain, I believe prog musicians were very clever and very demanding that the record label produced exactly what they wanted, many thereafter released their albums on their own record label. This was a threat to the record labels too plus the media didn't help by giving prog a bad name at the time. Metal bands usually have a lead vocalist and an ok or good solo lead break guitarist, as a whole not really a band more like a lead singer with backing band and a lead-break guitarist, most generic really thus easier to control.
Joined: October 03 2008
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Posted: April 03 2015 at 14:56
^Sorry, but except ELP and Henry Cow, I don't remember a lot of progressive bands creating their own label! Not only that, but I also think to remember that the most important NWBOHM bands first released self-produced records (Iron Maiden and Def Leppard, to name them).
Joined: April 12 2008
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Posted: April 04 2015 at 03:07
Well that's obviously an exagerration since I'm sure that by now way more prog rock musicians than Keith Emerson and the Henry Cow people have founded their own labels. Still, I'm pretty sure metal embraced the DIY business ethic way more than prog did, if not quite as much as punk did. Maybe that is not as evident to someone who's not as familiar with the genre and its history as I am, though, and only knows the parts of the genre to have a great degree of mainstream crossover visibility?
"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Joined: May 07 2006
Location: Italy
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Points: 13239
Posted: April 04 2015 at 14:30
CPicard wrote:
^That's true, I forgot DGM (founded by Robert Fripp) or Seventh Records (Magma's own record label). I guess I should try to find more examples.
More happened after that. The guys from Rush founded Moon Records already in 1973, Clive Nolan and Mick Pointer (Pendragon, Marillion, Arena) are the owners of Verglas records, and quite a few bands have gone independent...
ISKC Rock Radio I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]
Joined: October 03 2008
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Posted: April 04 2015 at 17:07
Angelo wrote:
CPicard wrote:
^That's true, I forgot DGM (founded by Robert Fripp) or Seventh Records (Magma's own record label). I guess I should try to find more examples.
More happened after that. The guys from Rush founded Moon Records already in 1973, Clive Nolan and Mick Pointer (Pendragon, Marillion, Arena) are the owners of Verglas records, and quite a few bands have gone independent...
For Rush, that label didn't last later than the release of their first LP. Then, they got a contract with Mercury. In fact, it's like the story of Iron Maiden, Def Leppard or Pantera: first, some self-released records / independant releases; then, a contract with some big company. Fun fact: the punk rock band Buzzcocks did the same thing, by self-releasing a first EP, then signing a contract with A&M. So much about the "punk ethos" that some people think the '77 wave supposedly had...
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Posted: April 02 2015 at 23:38
you see I have an excuse for this, it's called being a" nincompoopy|, you see 
ha! 
big hug to you, Guldbamsen 
advising him. 
even if later might change to something very silly whereby the culprit could be me, sorry 
Why isn't prog as successful as metal as an indus
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Guldbamsen wrote:
</span>