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moshkito 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16148 |
 Posted: April 18 2015 at 10:09 |
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Hi,
I (honestly) think that the bigger crime is that ProgArchives, which has more information and detail, and fan support, is not capable of creating a periodical that would help the situation, and instead we get these glossy pieces of _________________________ (your discretion!) that are nowhere near helping the mode a whole lot, though you and I can hope that one more fan is better than none? It's just a shame that a group this big, can not put their differences apart to have a cup of coffee, and a fun evening! And create something meaningful in the meantime, to help support the rest of their massive database with so much information and nothing to use it for! My take is that the magazine is intentionally creating a "loser" to offset their high returns elsewhere in the company!
Edited by moshkito - April 18 2015 at 10:14 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20483 |
Posted: April 18 2015 at 10:12 |
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Prog Mag is generally on the spot and even considers some groups such as Clannad to be prog, which I approve of.
Unfortunately, they are short on substance in regard to their feature articles. I've yet to read anything by them that I thought was groundbreaking regarding their featured artists or album reviews.
Edited by SteveG - April 18 2015 at 10:53 |
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Angelo
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13239 |
Posted: April 18 2015 at 10:22 |
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I have no clue what you are talking about, honestly. Never and nowhere has it ever been the intention of PA to release a periodical, it's part of a a new era where things are not distributed physically, but made available online. Prog and it's sister magazines come from the world of physical publication and are moving in the other direction. All of that has nothing to do with this topic, nor with differences amongst the members of this site (assuming you mean them by 'a group this big'). As for creating a 'loser' - perhaps... but I don't think so. They put in a little to much effort promoting it, so that seems like an unfounded stament as well.
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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Angelo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13239 |
Posted: April 18 2015 at 10:24 |
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As in 'nothing new' on top of what an artist has to say about themselves in their own press releases? Could these be paid features, perhaps?
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20483 |
Posted: April 18 2015 at 10:57 |
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^Yes Angelo, Prog Mag's features are most likely press releases and really serve only as an introduction to artists that we have become quite familiar with. I can't see this magazine being of any use to anyone except to prog novice.
Edited by SteveG - April 18 2015 at 10:58 |
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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Evolver
Special Collaborator
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams Joined: October 22 2005 Location: The Idiocracy Status: Offline Points: 5482 |
Posted: April 18 2015 at 13:25 |
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1. The magazine is released under a banner that begins with "Classic Rock Presents...". Of course they would feature classic prog bands.
2. A magazine need to make money to survive, so therefore the modern artist feature would be chosen based on established popularity. The same reason all of the pop magazines feature the same few faces. Basically, just about every magazine with serious circulation does the same thing. They cater to people who only want to read about their favorites, not those who want to discover new artists.
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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elpprogster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 02 2005 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 463 |
Posted: April 18 2015 at 15:40 |
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The magazine nowdays is named just Prog and this is the current issue:
http://www.caerllysimusic.co.uk/index1.html Here in Portugal usualy is available more and less 10 days from the release date in England.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26108 |
Posted: April 19 2015 at 03:09 |
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To be honest I love Darren's enthusiasm for prog and also for ELP which is refreshing as a fellow fan but he really could do a lot better with newer bands. I did e-mail him some suggestions which were completely ignored so I suppose I have a bit of an axe to grind. On the plus side I have heard bands like Beardfish and Moon Safari played on his show which is a positive. Some very good interviews as well although I wonder what happened to the one he we supposed to have with Roine Stolt from about a year ago? Was announced and then never happened for some reason. Would have been interesting I think.
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Nightfly
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: August 01 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3659 |
Posted: April 19 2015 at 09:09 |
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I read somewhere a year or 2 back, think it might have been in the magazine itself from the editor in defence of accusations made on forums like this of too much coverage of the big names, that they had to do it in order to sell magazines. They added that they hoped they got the balance right between new and old. I can understand that.
Even though there are some interesting articles in it I rarely buy it myself as I don't want to pay £9 for a magazine. I understand that due to a relatively small circulation it may be necessary to charge a higher price than other magazines but £9? I do subscribe to the original Classic Rock mag though.
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20451 |
Posted: April 19 2015 at 11:11 |
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For the most part I agree Steve,,, but they do have some decent articles on the old dinosaurs from time to time and I pick it up if one of my favorite groups get covered. And they do cover new artists , whether they pay for it or not. IMHO it's worth picking up on a per case basis if they have some coverage of bands one really likes. It could certainly be more cutting edge but then would only hard core proggers buy it and would it stay in publication (as Nightfly mentioned above..)?
Edited by dr wu23 - April 19 2015 at 11:13 |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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Friday13th
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 30 2013 Status: Offline Points: 284 |
Posted: April 19 2015 at 23:30 |
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I don't see it so negatively. I bought a few copies, and each one came with a sample CD of all new prog material from mostly obscure bands (out of like 30 bands I discovered, the only one's a knew beforehand were Anathema, Haken, The Flower Kings, Ayreon, and Barclay James Harvest). Yeah, all the big articles are on popular bands, but what do you expect? They do have plenty of new prog album reviews and short interviews. Liking the music is one thing, but saying there's nothing new to check out is ridiculous. I guarantee no one on this site would know of every band that's mentioned in one issue. Welcome to the real world, people, you have to pay to advertise your band.
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 6253 |
Posted: April 20 2015 at 00:42 |
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First of all, let me be clear here, it's my prerogative to open a discussion debate about this, this is my personal opinion, also I clearly requested other people's perspectives inc. positive experiences. The bands on the cd's which come as a freebee with the mag, these bands paid atleast 300pounds to be added on the cd, for one single song, thus the so called obscure bands are added because they paid for it. I know this from personal experience. Yes ofcourse, in order to sell mags they do have to add the well known bands (I see nothing wrong with that), however they could every now and then also just write tiny mention about other prog bands due to merit, considering that they call themselves "PROG?.
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 6253 |
Posted: April 20 2015 at 01:11 |
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I think my views would add more journalistic values while continuing to have a profit margin.
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Komandant Shamal
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 02 2015 Location: Yugoslavia Status: Offline Points: 954 |
Posted: April 20 2015 at 01:23 |
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progaardvark
Collaborator
Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Sea of Peas Status: Offline Points: 48661 |
Posted: April 20 2015 at 07:19 |
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Like others have said, this magazine's intended purpose is to sell magazines. I think they've come up with the best model to do this. Big name dinosaurs on the cover and short articles about newer, less-known bands scattered about the magazine. The intention (at least I hope it is) is to attract fans of Yes or ELP or Genesis into buying the magazine. Once they buy it, they have the chance to discover these other bands and hopefully a whole new world of prog is exposed to them.
I buy these in the local bookstores that carry it and I tend to buy it for the cover (I like collecting magazines that feature bands I like on the cover). The subscription to the U.S. is a bit on the high side (expected since it tends to be about 132 glossy pages with many color photographs). I tend to glance over the rest of the publication. I love Rick Wakeman's articles that generally seem to be about getting old and flatulence. One thing worth noting is that the articles are overly positive for the bands they write about. If you're promoting this style of music and/or the bands themselves, this only makes sense. Even more sense after noting Kati's comments above about bands paying almost £300 to be on the sampler CD accompanying the magazine. This in itself should question the journalistic integrity of the magazine. If you're looking for some fair criticisms of the music, you probably won't find them here. That's one of the reasons I prefer Prog Archives, plus the fact that an expensive monthly magazine can hardly do proper justice for this genre. I will still buy a copy now and then if I find it at the local Barnes & Noble and it features a band I like on the cover, but I'll never fork up the money to subscribe to it.
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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
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Friday13th
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 30 2013 Status: Offline Points: 284 |
Posted: April 20 2015 at 09:01 |
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I understand the concern Kati, and I feel the frustration too from time to time. But again, "merit" is a tricky word. Do they hire full time "prog-lovers" to choose which new bands are the best? We all have opinions. Again, the one thing I've learned by being a musician working with other musicians and people who say they love good music is that few share the same criteria. There are just too many bands to sort through also. Clearly the most profitable way is to sell spots on a cool sampler CD with fun artwork and all to willing bands that are on the rise. If I were a touring U.K. prog band I would totally snatch up that £300 deal btw. I'd agree with you if seeming "interviews" or album reviews are actually paid ads. That's just dishonest.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: April 20 2015 at 09:53 |
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On the subject of paying to be on the cover disc, we have covered this before when an artist (Colin Tench?) raised this a few years back.
The CD does not make itself and it costs money to produce. I don't know what the circulation figures are for "CR presents Prog" but let's assume that it;s a lot less than Rock Sound for example (~30,000 readers) - a number around 10,000 world-wide would seem adequate. [If anyone wants to track-down the ABC figures, be my guest]. So 10,000 copies of the magazine and that's a minimum of 10,000 glass-pressed CDs that have to be made, which for the sake of argument we'll say costs £3000 to make including mastering costs.
Tricky. If not down-right impractical I would think. So instead you can spend your £300 to have your track on a magazine cover disc. Now you don't have to fret about getting 10,000 CDs made, you don't have to co-ordinate 9 other artists (all of whom want their track to be first in the track-listing), and you don't have to worry about distributing those CDs to 10,000 would be could be fans. And if you choose your magazine to suit the kind of magazine buying public who would also be the same CD buying punters you are looking for then whoop-di-do, the job's a good'un and everyone is once again happy little bunnies frolicking in the ... well, you get the picture.  Now you could, and can, and do, argue that the cover-mount CD boosts sales for the Magazine and they cover the cost of making it in the exorbitant cover-price, and that is perfectly true. Then not every artist on the cover disc is unknown and we grab this mag from the shelves because of Wick Rakeman on the cover and the lastest SWilson of ALuccassen track on the disc. No one buys the magazine for the one track by some band they've never heard of that they can hear for free on Bandcloud or YouToob. What Classic Wok provides is a service, much like the service you get when you use a garage to change the oil in your car- sure you can do it yourself for much less cost, but it's easier and more convenient, and you don't have the problem of taking the used oil down to the recycling depot to dispose of. The service is not having your track on the cover disc, it's putting that cover-disc with your track on it into the grubby hands of 10,000 prog fans in one fell swoop... and at £0.03 / reader that smells like ruddy a bargain to me. However, if you think that £300 is too much then don't use the service. Spend your £300 on another guitar effects pedal or another cymbal, or 480 first-class postage stamps...
Edited by Dean - April 20 2015 at 10:00 |
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What?
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Windhawk
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 28 2006 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 11400 |
Posted: April 20 2015 at 11:31 |
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Nicely stated Dean. Or to put it this way: Can anyone point towards a marketing service that will guarantee you that your name will be seen by 10.000 readers and your music heard by the greater majority of them for 300 quid? I know a lot of artists would like to know about alternative options that are less expensive :-)
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Websites I work with:
http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2014 Location: Mar Vista, CA Status: Offline Points: 4807 |
Posted: April 20 2015 at 13:25 |
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Lately? |
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13241 |
Posted: April 20 2015 at 13:26 |
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Don't be nasty. There is no need for it 
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
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moshkito wrote: