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Topic Closed2015 UK General Election

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Poll Question: Who are you voting for?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
3 [12.50%]
8 [33.33%]
5 [20.83%]
1 [4.17%]
1 [4.17%]
3 [12.50%]
3 [12.50%]
0 [0.00%]
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2015 at 06:57
Originally posted by Cactus Choir Cactus Choir wrote:

Originally posted by NutterAlert NutterAlert wrote:

A triumph for the importance of voting. UKIP get 13% and one seat. Would be a travesty had it not happened to a load of racists. Cheerio Nigel. Shut the door as you go.


It IS a travesty and will only add to the alienation increasing numbers of people feel about the current political system. One party (UKIP) only gets one MP for well over 3 million votes, while another (SNP) gets an MP for every 20,000-25,000. Absurd and hopefully this will be a catalyst for major electoral reform.
Funny. This has been the case for generations and no one have a toss. Whoever the third party is they can get anywhere between 10 to 30% of the population behind them and win bugger-all seats - the Liberals, Social Democrats and Liberal Democrats have been saying this for years but because 2/3rds of the population does not want a "fair" system this will never change.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2015 at 07:00
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:


Everyone hates the Torries, but I as an outsider happen to really like that party :)


The tories are fairy irrelevant to anyone who earns less than £100K a year, but their campaign revolved around scaring people into believing that voting Labour in would 'undo all the good work of the last five years"

British people are not that bright when it comes to politics I'm afraid, so they voted for another five years of austerity. Labour would have cut too, but the tories planned cuts amount to at least another £33 billion, and despite their constant berating of Labour for borrowing sh*t loads of money they have borrowed unprecedneted amounts in recent years and added a further £500 billion to our national debt mountain. Their cutting of the deficit has also been modest compared to what they said they wanted to do.

They are essentially arseholes.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2015 at 07:03
I wish my fellow Italians, who are convinced that every country in the world is better than their own, would read the comments in this thread. Not that it would help them change their mind...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2015 at 07:06
Well, the Conservatives actually increased their share of the vote *less* than Labour did. What a landslide... I look forwards to the Conservatives pretending they have a mandate to carry on the work they never got a mandate to do in the first place. I also look forwards to David Cameron working with a majority far weaker than Major's one from 92. I don't expect that Cameron has Major's gumption.

The only real success story is the only consistently progressive party on the bill, the SNP (yes, UKIP got a higher share of the vote, but not relative to the number of constituencies they stood in...). The Libdems got justly incinerated by their Faustian pact and will now no longer need to book if they want to hold their party conference in a restaurant. I look forwards to long-discredited New Labour figures claiming their only viable path is a centrist Blairite one in the days ahead.

This election is very regionally divisive. The Tories have once again been almost completely rejected by the north of England. As an adopted northerner, I'm hoping the Great Viking Republic of Yorkshire will want to keep me when it eventually breaks off and invades Somerset with longships.

Edited by TGM: Orb - May 08 2015 at 07:16
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2015 at 07:13
Originally posted by TGM: Orb TGM: Orb wrote:

Well, the Conservatives actually increased their share of the vote *less* than Labour did. What a landslide... I look forwards to the Conservatives pretending they have a mandate to carry on the work they never got a mandate to do in the first place. I also look forwards to David Cameron working with a majority far weaker than Major's one from 92. I don't expect that Cameron has Major's gumption.

The only real success story is the only consistently progressive party on the bill, the SNP (yes, UKIP got a higher share of the vote, but not relative to the number of constituencies they stood in...). The Libdems got justly incinerated by their Faustian pact and will now no longer need to book if they want to hold their party conference in a restaurant. I look forwards to long-discredited New Labour figures claiming their only viable path is a centrist Blairite one in the days ahead.
Spot on Rob. The Conservatives did not gain from Labour, they reaped the reward of the Lib/Dem collapse and benefited from the success of the SNP in Scotland. The Scots have a hollow victory here, they will now be governed by a party that none of them voted for regardless of what paltry powers they secured by losing the devolution vote.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2015 at 07:13
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Cactus Choir Cactus Choir wrote:

Originally posted by NutterAlert NutterAlert wrote:

A triumph for the importance of voting. UKIP get 13% and one seat. Would be a travesty had it not happened to a load of racists. Cheerio Nigel. Shut the door as you go.


It IS a travesty and will only add to the alienation increasing numbers of people feel about the current political system. One party (UKIP) only gets one MP for well over 3 million votes, while another (SNP) gets an MP for every 20,000-25,000. Absurd and hopefully this will be a catalyst for major electoral reform.
Funny. This has been the case for generations and no one have a toss. Whoever the third party is they can get anywhere between 10 to 30% of the population behind them and win bugger-all seats - the Liberals, Social Democrats and Liberal Democrats have been saying this for years but because 2/3rds of the population does not want a "fair" system this will never change.


Yes, thinking about it the Tories getting a totally unexpected majority has probably put the kibosh on any possibility of reform to the system. The current process suits the Tories and Labour and the only catalyst for a change would have been if the electorate continually returned a hung parliament making it impossible for one party government. It'll be interesting to see if people continue voting for fringe parties next time given how worthless their vote was in this election (unless you're SNP of course).



Edited by Cactus Choir - May 08 2015 at 07:26
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2015 at 07:19
Yup, 37% of the vote gets you a majority add Labour at 31% and you over 50% against proportional representation as Labour would lose even more seats in that system. Gotta love politics.

Personally I think a hung government would lead to more compromises and more deadlocks so you'd get some more balanced legislation but also a whole lot of nothing.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2015 at 07:22
Originally posted by TGM: Orb TGM: Orb wrote:

Well, the Conservatives actually increased their share of the vote *less* than Labour did. What a landslide... I look forwards to the Conservatives pretending they have a mandate to carry on the work they never got a mandate to do in the first place. I also look forwards to David Cameron working with a majority far weaker than Major's one from 92. I don't expect that Cameron has Major's gumption.

The only real success story is the only consistently progressive party on the bill, the SNP (yes, UKIP got a higher share of the vote, but not relative to the number of constituencies they stood in...). The Libdems got justly incinerated by their Faustian pact and will now no longer need to book if they want to hold their party conference in a restaurant. I look forwards to long-discredited New Labour figures claiming their only viable path is a centrist Blairite one in the days ahead.


Unfortunately if Labour want power again, they will need to return to the NuLab doctrine of sucking up to big business, endless spin and glossy presentation.

The British public do not trust the left when it comes to the crunch. Sadly.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2015 at 07:29
Originally posted by TGM: Orb TGM: Orb wrote:

The Libdems got justly incinerated by their Faustian pact and will now no longer need to book if they want to hold their party conference in a restaurant.

LOL
Their about-turn on the tuition fees has done for them for the foreseeable future.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2015 at 07:30
Originally posted by Cactus Choir Cactus Choir wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Cactus Choir Cactus Choir wrote:

Originally posted by NutterAlert NutterAlert wrote:

A triumph for the importance of voting. UKIP get 13% and one seat. Would be a travesty had it not happened to a load of racists. Cheerio Nigel. Shut the door as you go.


It IS a travesty and will only add to the alienation increasing numbers of people feel about the current political system. One party (UKIP) only gets one MP for well over 3 million votes, while another (SNP) gets an MP for every 20,000-25,000. Absurd and hopefully this will be a catalyst for major electoral reform.
Funny. This has been the case for generations and no one have a toss. Whoever the third party is they can get anywhere between 10 to 30% of the population behind them and win bugger-all seats - the Liberals, Social Democrats and Liberal Democrats have been saying this for years but because 2/3rds of the population does not want a "fair" system this will never change.


Yes, thinking about it the Tories getting a totally unexpected majority has probably put the kibosh on any possibility of reform to the system. The current process suits the Tories and Labour and the only catalyst for a change would have been if the electorate continually returned a hung parliament making it impossible for one party government. It's be interesting to see if people continue voting for fringe parties next time given how worthless their vote was in this election (unless you're SNP of course).

They do not have a clear majority and that is an important point, this results in a weak government that has to compromise and appease in order to govern. What we will see is an increase in influence of current Tory rebels and that is not a good thing.

Latest BBC News: Nigel Farage resigns as UKIP leader. That is pretty much the end of UKIP - they are not a political party, they are a cult of personality based around Farage and his "bloke in the pub" persona (think David Ike or Boris Johnson). Without Farage they will fade away into oblivion alongside the NF and the BNP.





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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2015 at 07:32
So, with the crushing victory by the SNP in Scotland, do you see another referendum on Scots independence soon? I have a friend in Edinburgh who is a rabid nationalist, I am wondering if the rest are now going in that direction. Although the last referendum seemed to indicate that the Scots really didn't care for independence.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2015 at 07:34
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by TGM: Orb TGM: Orb wrote:

Well, the Conservatives actually increased their share of the vote *less* than Labour did. What a landslide... I look forwards to the Conservatives pretending they have a mandate to carry on the work they never got a mandate to do in the first place. I also look forwards to David Cameron working with a majority far weaker than Major's one from 92. I don't expect that Cameron has Major's gumption.

The only real success story is the only consistently progressive party on the bill, the SNP (yes, UKIP got a higher share of the vote, but not relative to the number of constituencies they stood in...). The Libdems got justly incinerated by their Faustian pact and will now no longer need to book if they want to hold their party conference in a restaurant. I look forwards to long-discredited New Labour figures claiming their only viable path is a centrist Blairite one in the days ahead.

Spot on Rob. The Conservatives did not gain from Labour, they reaped the reward of the Lib/Dem collapse and benefited from the success of the SNP in Scotland. The Scots have a hollow victory here, they will now be governed by a party that none of them voted for regardless of what paltry powers they secured by losing the devolution vote.


A rarity, I know, but I beg to differ, Dean.

The Tories most certainly did gain from Labour. Witness Balls losing his seat, a staggering achievement for a Shadow Chancellor up against a supposedly unpopular government. He was not the only one. I watched declaration after declaration, and, in seat after seat, even in safe Labour seats, there were swings to Tory candidates. Conservatives gained from both Labour, and the Lib Dem collapse. How much advantage did Labour take from the Lib Dem collapse? Sod all. Labour were truly stuffed, and there is no other place to look to for blame than themselves.

The SNP, if anything, are stronger under this government than under Labour. The fact is that Cameron will simply have to reach some form of accommodation around devo-max, including fiscal independence measures. He will, I think, welcome this, because the fact is that he now has a chance to really strengthen his natural English majority to those so-called Northern powerhouses, the areas where Labour, most certainly under Brown and Blair (I blame the former as both Chancellor and leader more than the latter), completely abandoned any pretence of being the party of the working person in this country, and a damned heavy price is being paid now. The working class are deserting to UKIP in England, and SNP in Scotland, in their droves, and it is this which is the real story and conclusion of this election.

As for my lot, Plaid, deeply disappointing. Not one gain, this up against an even more hopeless Labour Party machine in Wales, where they have taken their core vote for granted for decades ,and delivered bugger all in power. The Tories actually gained three seats. Incredible, really.

A very interesting night, the consequences of which will be felt for many years. My conclusion and final thought? It is desperately time now for a UK wide realignment of the left, a united left. There is, though, no hope of this whatsoever, based upon past experience.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2015 at 07:35
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by TGM: Orb TGM: Orb wrote:

Well, the Conservatives actually increased their share of the vote *less* than Labour did. What a landslide... I look forwards to the Conservatives pretending they have a mandate to carry on the work they never got a mandate to do in the first place. I also look forwards to David Cameron working with a majority far weaker than Major's one from 92. I don't expect that Cameron has Major's gumption.

The only real success story is the only consistently progressive party on the bill, the SNP (yes, UKIP got a higher share of the vote, but not relative to the number of constituencies they stood in...). The Libdems got justly incinerated by their Faustian pact and will now no longer need to book if they want to hold their party conference in a restaurant. I look forwards to long-discredited New Labour figures claiming their only viable path is a centrist Blairite one in the days ahead.


Unfortunately if Labour want power again, they will need to return to the NuLab doctrine of sucking up to big business, endless spin and glossy presentation.

The British public do not trust the left when it comes to the crunch. Sadly.


I think that's partly because the Left never, ever actually defend their generally superior economic record against the tabloids and the Tories, though. And because somehow governments and newspapers don't have the same legal responsibility to the public wrt basic factual honesty that companies have to their shareholders.

Mr Farage has left the saloon doors swinging with his suggestion he might seek reelection as party leader. We'll see how that works out.

On the Scots' referendum, I expect the Tories to take some approach to further devolve Scotland (whether that's fiscal control or 'English votes for English issues' or whatever) in order to neutralise them as an electoral risk. Whether another referendum follows will probably depend on this.

Edited by TGM: Orb - May 08 2015 at 07:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2015 at 08:15
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by TGM: Orb TGM: Orb wrote:

Well, the Conservatives actually increased their share of the vote *less* than Labour did. What a landslide... I look forwards to the Conservatives pretending they have a mandate to carry on the work they never got a mandate to do in the first place. I also look forwards to David Cameron working with a majority far weaker than Major's one from 92. I don't expect that Cameron has Major's gumption.

The only real success story is the only consistently progressive party on the bill, the SNP (yes, UKIP got a higher share of the vote, but not relative to the number of constituencies they stood in...). The Libdems got justly incinerated by their Faustian pact and will now no longer need to book if they want to hold their party conference in a restaurant. I look forwards to long-discredited New Labour figures claiming their only viable path is a centrist Blairite one in the days ahead.

Spot on Rob. The Conservatives did not gain from Labour, they reaped the reward of the Lib/Dem collapse and benefited from the success of the SNP in Scotland. The Scots have a hollow victory here, they will now be governed by a party that none of them voted for regardless of what paltry powers they secured by losing the devolution vote.


A rarity, I know, but I beg to differ, Dean.

The Tories most certainly did gain from Labour. Witness Balls losing his seat, a staggering achievement for a Shadow Chancellor up against a supposedly unpopular government. He was not the only one. I watched declaration after declaration, and, in seat after seat, even in safe Labour seats, there were swings to Tory candidates. Conservatives gained from both Labour, and the Lib Dem collapse. How much advantage did Labour take from the Lib Dem collapse? Sod all. Labour were truly stuffed, and there is no other place to look to for blame than themselves.
Aside from Ed Balls what other seats did the Conservatives win from Labour? [Sorry, that's not a taunt, I honestly don't know - I have tried looking at the Tory gains one by one but my PC keeps crashing] All the Tory gains I have seen so far have been gained from the Lib Dems... having said that, Vince Cable, Lynne Featherstone and Simon Hughes all lost their seats to Labour.




Edited by Dean - May 08 2015 at 08:16
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2015 at 08:18
I think the Scots warn Cameron that if the UK leaves the EU, Scotland leaves the UK.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2015 at 08:33
Being an outsider, I've been quite surprised to see that the SNP was the third party (in terms of seats won), before the Lib-Dems or even the UKIP.
If Cameron really launches a referendum about the UK leaving the EU, do you think that the Scottish vote could keep the UK in the "other Union"?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2015 at 08:34
Originally posted by TGM: Orb TGM: Orb wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by TGM: Orb TGM: Orb wrote:

Well, the Conservatives actually increased their share of the vote *less* than Labour did. What a landslide... I look forwards to the Conservatives pretending they have a mandate to carry on the work they never got a mandate to do in the first place. I also look forwards to David Cameron working with a majority far weaker than Major's one from 92. I don't expect that Cameron has Major's gumption.

The only real success story is the only consistently progressive party on the bill, the SNP (yes, UKIP got a higher share of the vote, but not relative to the number of constituencies they stood in...). The Libdems got justly incinerated by their Faustian pact and will now no longer need to book if they want to hold their party conference in a restaurant. I look forwards to long-discredited New Labour figures claiming their only viable path is a centrist Blairite one in the days ahead.


Unfortunately if Labour want power again, they will need to return to the NuLab doctrine of sucking up to big business, endless spin and glossy presentation.

The British public do not trust the left when it comes to the crunch. Sadly.


I think that's partly because the Left never, ever actually defend their generally superior economic record against the tabloids and the Tories, though. And because somehow governments and newspapers don't have the same legal responsibility to the public wrt basic factual honesty that companies have to their shareholders.

Mr Farage has left the saloon doors swinging with his suggestion he might seek reelection as party leader. We'll see how that works out.


On the Scots' referendum, I expect the Tories to take some approach to further devolve Scotland (whether that's fiscal control or 'English votes for English issues' or whatever) in order to neutralise them as an electoral risk. Whether another referendum follows will probably depend on this.


I wouldn't have said the left have a great economic record IMO, but that's not really the point. Their managenemt of the economy in the 70's was appalling, and just as the SNP have handed Dracula the keys to bloodbank, by wiping out labour in Scotland, Callaghans labour party handed the UK to Thatcher on a plate.

They are still a better option for most people than a conservative government though. Trickle down economics doesn't work as history clearly shows.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2015 at 09:12
The SNP had 6 seats in 2010.  Six!!

Nicola sure woke up with a smile on her face.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2015 at 09:39
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

 
I wouldn't have said the left have a great economic record IMO, but that's not really the point. Their managenemt of the economy in the 70's was appalling, 

Not just the 70s, Gordon Brown flogged a load of our gold bullion that cost us billions of dollars.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 08 2015 at 09:55
Apparently Ronnie Carroll came second from bottom in the Hampstead and Kilburn constituency with 113 votes, which is quite an achievement considering he died in April.
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