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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Jack O' The Clock interview
    Posted: May 04 2015 at 19:56
I did an interview with Damon Waitkus and Jason Hoopes from Jack O' The Clock. It's here.



 



 Where do you live?

In the San Francisco Bay Area.


 Personally, I became a fan of Jack O' The Clock when at Bandcamp I discovered your album from 2011, "All My Friends", and especially the 13-minute epic from that album titled Old Friend In A Hole which is actually my favourite song from your entire catalogue. Can you tell me something more about "All My Friends" the album of which I really think that is one of the best albums of contemporary prog that are released in last five years?

Thanks, Svetonio. There are two pools of songs that we're always adding to: live band songs and studio creations. Eventually some from both categories glom together around a mood and loose theme and an album emerges. "All My Friends" focused on friendship in all its complexity, but intuitively rather than conceptually.

"Old Friend In A Hole" was written for a friend of mine who collapsed into paranoia and eventually committed suicide. I often think of the album as a whole as a pretty diurnal, sunny listen, and then I remember there's that heat sink towards the end which makes the album complete. "What To Do In Our Neighborhood" is actually its prologue, written in the years before the suicide when I was wondering how you go about rallying someone out of a dangerous depression. 
Musically, "Old Friend In a Hole" started with the drums/rhodes loop you hear close to the beginning, which is a slowed-down fragment of a jam a friend sent me. I was doing a soundtrack for a student documentary about freelance videographers who go out and collect footage at crash scenes and then sell it to news networks, and the director wanted something "with piano" to accompany grisly nocturnal highway scenes. I played all those cheesy piano parts as placeholders really early on, then of course got attached to them and the whole mood of the thing after the documentary was done and wanted to develop the piece into something of my own. Emily and I had been listening to a lot of David Sylvian, and she was inspired by Arve Henriksen's contribution to his album with Nine Horses and thought we should bring in a trumpet, so we asked our friend and fellow Mills College graduate Darren Johnston. He along with Jason (bass) really makes that song happen as far as I'm concerned. All first takes, I think.






 "Night Loops" the album in May 2014, contains one song titled "Ten Fingers" which to me sounds like a fantastic cocktail of hints of Robert Wyatt's aesthetic and Peter Gabriel's upbeat prog in the eighties, i.e. his Fourth, "Birdy" and "Passion" soundtracks. Am I too far from a stuff that really inspired you for that song?





Robert Wyatt is not a major influence on me. I like his personality as it comes through his work maybe more than the music. 

Some of Peter Gabriel's work I probably have been influenced by, namely "Mercy Street" and, later "The Family and The Fishing Net," though I hadn't heard the fourth album (or "Birdy" or "Passion" for that matter) when I initially wrote "Ten Fingers" back in 2005. 

The punchy production along with Tony Levin's presence on Gabriel's fourth album did help set a standard for me which may have played into the sound I was going for on "Ten Fingers," as well as some others like "Fixture," "Blue Tail Fly" and "Old Friend In A Hole." Peter Gabriel does technological alienation well, and the mood of the lyrics flows with the grain of early sampling technology, though in my book it is Laurie Anderson who really hit it out of the park. 

I feel like there is an audible excitement over sampling in the albums that came out in its earliest days, like Anderson's "United States:I-IV" and "Big Science," Gabriel's fourth and Kate Bush's "The Dreaming." It was all over by 1983. I think one of the differences between that brief Fairlight era and the age of cheaper factory synths which followed is that musicians were excited to go out to the junkyard and collect their own samples, which wasn't as necessary or convenient in the following years, and that encouraged investment in and ownership of the sounds at all levels. That's a rule I set for myself in my own production: all field recordings and on-location percussion I recorded myself. It means there's a lot more noise and imperfection to contend with, but also a lot more fun idiosyncrasies.



 At the same album, there's an instrumental track "Salt Moon" that justifies your avant tag. Do I hear a wonderful influences of Steve Reich and yet an impact of Far East traditional music?

Steve Reich is an ambient influence. I think of minimalism in general as a textural technique available to any composer who wants to use it these days. I wrote a lot of chamber music before Jack O' The Clock for ensembles which lacked percussion and found myself naturally using repetition and phasing-type effects to maintain pulse and drive, and some of that comes out in the middle section of Salt Moon. Others have heard Henry Cow in that piece, which is fair, and certainly an influence. Burmese, Chinese, and Japanese folk musics have figured into my listening in recent years too, though don't know how much they influenced Salt Moon beyond the presence of a few coloristic touches of guzheng which I added late in the game.

The main theme from that piece actually came out of an improvisation that Emily and I recorded when I first picked up the piccolo electric guitar. That instrument, paired with her baritone violin, gave us the opportunity to reverse our accustomed registers. The first 8 bars and much of the following section–basically everything except the bass solo in the middle, the minimalist section–were transcribed almost verbatim from that improv. I then went back and wrote a counterpoint for the bass and bassoon, which progged it to high heaven, but what can you do…

  


 After "Salt Moon", following song at the album is "Down Below" which reveals a country-rock influence. And there is, generaly speaking, a lot folk / country influences in your work. Your are listed in the Prog Archives as a Prog Folk band as well. Is there some folk / country act that you particularly like to listen? 


I love the expressiveness of some of the sounds native to folk and country, particularly slide guitar and pedal steel, which inspired me to work on playing the hammer dulcimer with a slide on "Down Below" and a few other songs. I've also been under the spell of "American Primitive" guitar for a long time: John Fahey, Leo Kottke, and more recently our local master Chuck Johnson. Also Bill Frisell. 

I've never been a big listener of country music per se so much as a seeker of interesting and original songwriters wherever they happen to fall, and I get my country influences secondhand through some of them, say Gillian Welch or, more in the country-rock vein, The Band and Grant Lee Philips. Lately I've been really inspired by Vic Chesnutt's early "West of Rome": I can't think of another recent songwriter with more honesty, intelligence, and vulnerability. He ups the ante. Songwriting that puts a premium on story, mood, and the creation of character has a genuine allure for me, though the push-pull between this and the hunger for musical richness, which just doesn't hang out with good lyrics all that often, is a central struggle in both composing and listening. Simon and Garfunkel's "Parsley, Sage, Rosemary and Thyme" was a crucial part of the soundtrack of my early childhood, and I'm still listening to it, along with the rest of Paul Simon's catalog, because it strikes that rare balance. Joni Mitchell and Joanna Newsom have done it too.  





 Tell me something about your recent album i.e. the covers album titled "Outsider Songs" (btw, my favourite track is "Hyper Ballad")?

We'd talked about various covers we'd wanted to record for a while, but I honestly didn't think I'd ever really want to devote the time it would take to complete even a 3-song EP of them with so much new original material always being generated. But I was kind of worn-out compositionally when I finished "Night Loops" and wasn't immediately ready to start again from the ground up with the new band songs. We already had two covers underway: I'd started "Chinaberry Tree" myself just for fun over a fragment from the documentary I mentioned earlier, and we'd actually worked up "Hyper Ballad" as a live song a few years ago (though it was quite different), so it was just a matter of choosing a few more to make a substantive project of it. I wish I could say we chose them democratically, but I kind of dominated. Jason chose and had most of the arrangement ideas for "The Chauffeur," and Emily chose "Think Too Much," and I pretty much chose all the rest. With the exception of Vic Chesnutt, the songs are from long-familiar, mainstream artists who have been a part of my listening for so long I can hardly even judge them anymore. Ives was a major gateway composer for me, literally adding a dimension to my listening, and I felt his gorgeously spare Serenity was ripe for re-interpretation.  

In general, I thought it would be a lot more fun to take relatively simple songs and mess with them–in a way that wouldn't undermine their impact–than to try to render already-complex work from within our supposed genre in a different way. I don't understand reverent covers that try to reproduce every element of the original, it seems like a prescription for failure. In some cases, like "The Wrong Child" or "Mute Witness," our touches were limited to instrumentation and little changes in the melody; in others like "Chinaberry Tree" or "The Chauffeur" we really re-composed the songs. There are others that would be fun to do, but I think that's it for a while, I got it out of my system.





 How is with the progressive rock scene in your city?

We've only just recently started playing on bills with bands that might throw "prog" into a list of hyphenated genres in describing themselves, like Inner Ear Brigade, Reconnaissance Fly, and miRthkon, but I don't know if this constitutes a progressive rock scene. What we have is a community of musicians, largely in the penumbra of Mills College, trained in experimental composition and free improvisation, whose latent love of song-based music is gradually and more or less bashfully filtering up from some older place and causing some really interesting music to happen. Slightly older Bay Area presences, like the folks from Free Salamander Exhibit (formerly Sleepytime Gorilla Museum) with whom we share a practice space, Moe! Staiano, Vacuum Tree Head, Dominique Leone (now in New York), and of course the lynchpin Fred Frith paved the way to a great extent. I've noticed that "prog" is no longer pejorative, which seems healthy enough, but it's usually tempered with an "avant-" "post-" or something, just in case you thought there were going to be Mellotrons. This too seems healthy, some of us got there by a different route, even if there are some stylistic convergences: to a lot of the musicians in our scene Anthony Braxton, say, looms larger than early Genesis.   

Actually, Karl Evangelista of Grex and I have been working on how to accurately describe what we're doing in a way that acknowledges the freshness of our current place and time. He had the idea of doing a compilation album in the coming year which includes other bands that perform song-based, composed music and possibly some improvisation–you can see why this language needs tightening–most likely to include contributions from vibraphonist Mark Clifford's Dirty Snacks Ensemble and perhaps some inter-band collaborations and improvisations. Mark and Karl have a lot of jazz and classical composition in their backgrounds I believe, but the songs when they emerge have more in common with rock than the vocal traditions within those meta-genres. 



 




 What is your view about the prog culture in general?
 
I should say first off that we've never viewed ourselves as a "prog" band, and this is not music any of us listens to very much. Actually, Jason and I are the only members of the band with any history with it to speak of, the rest view the label as something of a curiosity. I think of "prog" as a genre with particular stylistic characteristics derivative of some of the the post-psychedelic music coming out of Britain in the early 70s. I loved that first-wave progressive rock when I was in my teens and early twenties, but by the time I was 24 I was turning towards the world of contemporary composition and listening to a lot more jazz and nonwestern music. Prog rock has no exclusive claim on what is progressive in music. I think what the first wave of progressive rock did for me back then, though, was demonstrate that it was possible to be ambitious within the song form and rock instrumentation, and in a sense I've never been able or wanted to pare that ambition back in order to fit into something more cozy like straight-ahead country rock.

When Jack O' The Clock first started trying to get our music out into the world we described ourselves as "majestic junk folk" and thought we might find a toehold in what was then called the "freak folk" movement. But it was the listeners of progressive rock that responded to us, in part probably because we had the endorsement of Fred Frith, whose early work with Henry Cow is often listed under that genre, in part because a level of complexity sometimes enters our compositions and orchestrations. I'm grateful for that support, and it seems there are a lot of open-minded people in the  progressive rock community when it is defined loosely, who listen to all types of music, I just want to clarify that we're not deliberately trying to create this thing called Prog. 

JASON HOOPES: What spoke to me initially on first hearing something like ELP's Brain Salad Surgery, or especially Tarkus, and other now-classic records of that era by bands with a harder edge was a sort of bridge between my young and naive fascination with European classical composers, and my then-nearly-exclusive obsession with death- and thrash-metal of the 80s and early 90s, particularly coming out of the Bay Area and Florida. Later prog groups like Sweden's Änglagård and Death Organ hit even closer to that mark, Death Organ having close ties to Opeth and Peter Tägtgren for example. But I came to recognize a dissatisfying sameness to the sound of prog, in the same way I became dissatisfied with a lot of metal, until eventually I became uncomfortable with the whole idea of genre. I wouldn't say I love prog, but I would say that I love progressive music. Of course, what dictates what is and isn't progressive is subjective to a large degree. To my ears, artists like The Flaming Lips or Beck, certainly Björk, and Neurosis on the edgier end of things sound more progressive than much of what might be called prog. In my view, Radiohead are probably the most important progressive band of the late 20th and early 21st century. When I was asked to play with Jack O' The Clock in 2008, what struck me right away about Damon's vision was not only an openness to timbral complexity, an ambitious sense of composition, and the challenge of a need for diverse technical facility, but also a deep and earnest emotional reflection (largely found in the lyrics) on a uniquely American human experience. It hits me as a sincere personal response to a kind of collective spiritual anemia - a dedicated hunt for a way to articulate the dominant mythological forms of contemporary American existence, but with an uncontrived intention. To me, that speaks to what I mean when I say that I like heavy and progressive music - the musicianship pushes a high bar, but the intention is accessibly human. But...well, you know, that's just like, uh, my opinion, man.





 What do you think, isn't prog become less and less socially impactfull as a youth music in the countries that once were superpowers of the progressive rock like UK and USA, while we right now see a huge reborn of prog and a new prog audience in other places, like Latin America, Scandinavia and Eastern Europe, in countries like Sweden and Poland for example?


Damon Waitkus: It's a good question, but I honestly have no idea!  


 Please keep make such a great music. Thank you for the interview.

You're welcome, thanks for asking!








Edited by Svetonio - May 05 2015 at 23:50
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2015 at 18:10
Thanks for this interview. Terrific band!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2015 at 18:20
Originally posted by progrockdeepcuts progrockdeepcuts wrote:

Thanks for this interview. Terrific band!!


WordClap. Looking forward to ProgDay!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2015 at 21:38
can't wait to see them! Almost as much as Ut Gret!!!

btw..  interviewer.. note ...  many of these bands don't see themselves as prog bands. Nor have any association or identification with the scene.. if one really exists today.  That scene IMO has fragmented in a 100 beautiful directions...

perhaps your next set of questions to them might explore their thoughts on it. I've heard it in private from quite a few bands. I've asked. It might interest those who haven't thought or had a chance to ask.. to hear what their particular thoughts are. 

They aren't prog rock... they see themselves as the original bands did.  Just a group of musicians exploring sharied interests and letting the music take them where they go. Sort of full circle, 40 years later, back to where the whole thing began...




Edited by micky - July 02 2015 at 21:45
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2015 at 21:40
I'm stoked for these guys at ProgDay! Ut Gret too!! See you guys there.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2015 at 21:43
yeah. I haven't checked out any samples.. I like to be suprised but from I read of them.. sounds like something I'll completely enjoy Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2015 at 21:44
As for Prog rock / not prog rock ... isn't it ironic that the best modern prog bands don't actually sound like prog rock at all? Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2015 at 21:50
Originally posted by progrockdeepcuts progrockdeepcuts wrote:

As for Prog rock / not prog rock ... isn't it ironic that the best modern prog bands don't actually sound like prog rock at all? Tongue


well... I've expressed my views on that quite regularly and with some passion.

If they did...  they wouldn't be worth the excitement.  One can only hear so many variation on the standard cliched prog rock stylistic norms.  The scene will survive because of band like this.. that are forging their own sound and style.. and you know what Ian.. they aren't coming to Prog fan.. they are putting themselves out there to music fan. Prog fan is just along for the ride. That is why the scene will survive.. expanding past the narrow tastes and dwinding numbers of prog fan. Clap 

I should pull out again that post from Jakob from White WIllow made in the aftermath of the Nearfest cancellation. He pretty much said it...it was time for a divorce.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2015 at 22:30
yeah... in case you missed this Ian. The single most insightful post I think I've ever read.

this was written after the guns and knives came out when Nearfest cancelled due to lack of ticket sales interest from 'prog fan' when they couldn't get a nostalgia band to headline.

words of wisdom here...

Jacob said:
I'm just going to chime in on the original post, dunno what's been discussed over all these pages.
I whole-heartedly applaud every prog festival organizer who has ever walked the earth for their amazing contribution to the entire prog revival. Without people like Rob and Chad and Greg and Steve and George and the rest, a lot of us in prog bands would simply be nowhere. Progfest and NEARfest in particular have been essential to the growth of Scandinavian prog in the 90's and noughties.

It just seems that the time has come now for prog to find a new way. The festivals have become, as was mentioned, nostalgia get-togethers. They have been artificial life-lines for stagnant acts, rather than fertile grounds for new, exciting acts. And those organizers who have tried to feature some new blood have been punished by a rather backwards-looking audience. As with NEARfest this year. I don't think blaming either the audience, the organizers or the bands has any virtue. What I think, is that the prog umbrella for too long has tried to shelter two very different things under its shade: On the one hand, the nostalgia scene, which features both the old acts that are still around, like Yes and whatever Italian band you care to mention, and "old-new" bands like Flower Kings and Transatlantic - bands that, though newish, cater mostly to very conservative audiences. On the other hand, the new progressive scene, which could include anything from The Mars Volta to Gösta Berlings Saga, and which really isn't a scene at all, especially considering that many of the bands themselves have no awareness of being part of a "prog scene". These two strands really are extremely different. There's plenty of people with a love for both (including, to a certain extent, myself). But to throw the typical fans of both scenes (the former, ageing, follicle-challenged geezers - bless'em all!, the latter young, dynamic listeners brought up to endless eclecticism and irreverence to genres - bless them too!), might just be too much of a stretch. Maybe it's time for a divorce. Let the geezers have their nostalgia-fests, and let the "new prog" bands get out on the regular rock circuit and compete with any other rock genres out there rather than put them in the geriatric ward of "prog" where the smell of old age will make them unpalatable to both the rock media and the major labels. No disrespect to either!!! :-)

And as an a propos: Prog labels that sign new, fresh and exciting bands should be careful how they market and present the bands. Selling them in the traditional way ("washes of mellotrons, recall Eloy in their heyday, rave reception at Bolivia Art Rock Fest (BARF)") will, quite simply, sell them short. It's a new world out there.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2015 at 23:18
Man, the last couple of sentences in the second paragraph hit me hard. Maybe he's right. But how do we market real progressive music? Is the progressive music today even truly rock based at all?

I have to admit, I was one of those guys until 2012. The regressive progressive rocker. I liked bands from 1972 and bands that sounded like they were from 1972. I went to NEARfest to see my heroes Van der Graaf Generator and man, they were great. Also saw Renaissance who were ... slightly disappointing. UK? Didn't know them beforehand but they didn't exactly win me over. But you know what? Aranis, Gosta Berlings Saga, Anglagard, and Keneally just smoked them.

There was something about the first two especially - man, they were playing like their lives depended on it. Il Tempio delle Clessidre, too. That, and seeing the Romantic Warriors II just killed my nostalgia trip dead on it's feet. I still love old bands and I love discovering old bands I don't know, but man there's nothing like hearing a young band with something to prove. It's what made the old guard exciting in the first place right? And I love some regressive progressive rock, still, but the really exciting stuff comes from people like Jack o' the Clock. The thing about ProgDay is that it is NEARfest - just without the headliners, you know? But man, if GBS played a festival and headlined, I wouldn't be disappointed. Quite the opposite. Just saying.


Edited by progrockdeepcuts - July 02 2015 at 23:26
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2015 at 23:56
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

can't wait to see them! Almost as much as Ut Gret!!!

btw..  interviewer.. note ...  many of these bands don't see themselves as prog bands. (...)


R.M. Točak, the guitarist, composer and the leader of my all time favorite prog rock band Smak (formed in 1971 in Kragujevac, ex-Yugoslavia, and already in Prog Archives as a jazz-rock / fusion band, I presume it  happened 'cause Eclectic section didn't existed at the time when they were added to PA database), on the eve of Smak's open-air concert last month here in Belgrade (nearly 50 000 spectators), he gave an interview to the best-selling daily newspaper here in Serbia, and one of the questions was how R.M. Točak, 40 years since they released the debut album, labeled Smak's music in general, he replied that labeling Smak that he leaves to the Smak' fans, and that he personally always thinks that it all was "Rock only".
 
Well, what we have here...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

As someone who listening to progressive rock (and related stuff) for 40 years, I realized, long before the aforementioned Točak's interview, two things:
1) Prog is what we, the fans, accept as such.
2) we, the majority of prog fans (whatever it means), we proclaim (accept) that some act is prog and we determine the sub-genres of our beloved genre (which is, btw, bigger than ever). The artists don't determine the genres; the artists do love or do not love how they are labeled by the audience, they could give a hundreds of interviews where they're talking how they labeled themselfs, but that will not change their fans' opinion, until eventually some drastic change of direction of music such as e.g. Genesis went into banal pop music.


Edited by Svetonio - July 03 2015 at 03:16
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2015 at 00:04
Originally posted by progrockdeepcuts progrockdeepcuts wrote:

As for Prog rock / not prog rock ... isn't it ironic that the best modern prog bands don't actually sound like prog rock at all? Tongue
When I suggested Jack O' The Clock for Prog Archives, it took a really interesting discussion: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=92510&FID=1
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2015 at 11:06
Radio interview with Jack o' the Clock tracks.

https://www.mixcloud.com/progrockdeepcuts/prog-rock-deep-cuts-85-damon-waitkus-of-jack-o-the-clock-joins-us/
www.progrockdeepcuts.com

Edited by progrockdeepcuts - July 31 2015 at 11:07
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