Dellinger wrote: I was thinking about how 70's prog was so unique and great, and even though nowdays there are many great bands doing great albums, they often sound like they are trying to do prog just for the sake of doing prog, just as it has been mentioned around here before. And I believe that's just what makes the 70's stuff pass the test of time. Back then, the now called prog bands, as far as I understand, weren't trying to do prog, nor stick to any set of rules of the genre, they were just trying to do what they wanted, try to break the mold of pop music, though they might actually have been copying some of what the other prog bands were doing, but in the end they weren't really trying to do prog as such. Now, many bands seem to need to stick to the set rules of prog that we know, like long songs, instrumental passages, odd and changing time signatures, etc., and so often those bands sound forced. I guess that's what Wilson meant when he said bands like Flower Kings were the Death of Prog, though he himself seems to have indulged in the same kind of doing prog with The Raven at least (which, anyway, I must admit I really loved). So, what do you think about this?

First of all, I love contemporary prog. I always try to dig new releases to propagate them and make them more known to others. And I think there are some great releases around recently. That said, Dellinger, I somewhat see your point. There seems to be a kind of 'spirit' in the prog of the 70's that contemporary music often lack. Recently I heard on a prog radio a great song from a band I have never heard of (Morpheus), I googled them and... dang! The track appeared to be from the 70's. So I think it is legitimate to ask the question, what makes this kind of music from this time so special? My 5 cent on this would be, indeed, the bands of that time did not want to follow a genre, because it did not exist, yet. They wanted to cross the boundaries of all previous rock and pop. They wanted to add some daring sounds, melodies, rhythms etc. that at that time could only be found in classical music or non-european ('world') music. All of the sudden nearly all rock musicians at that time wanted to do it, even in the main stream. It was somehow 'in the air' and spread throughout the world like a wave. Those bands founded something that will be later called 'progressive rock', although they were not aware of it. They were many (even though not very commercially successfull at that time), and in this creative  environment everyone wanted to be better and more daring than the others. Maybe it explains a bit of the 'spirit'. Nowadays the 'genre' exists already, and bands playing in this genre are not influential at all in the artistic field anymore. They play in a musical niche for a relatively small amount of people. Of course, they play what they want, and you have to give them credit for not wanting 'to make money fast', but what seems to lack today is the artistic fruitful environment of that time.

On a side note, I do not have nostalgic feelings for the 70's because it was before my time. I discovered 70's prog mainly in the 80's and 90's. When I first fell in love (speeking of first kiss) I was listening to German New Wave (Neue Deutsche Welle). So when I adore 70's prog, it has obviously nothing to do with nostalgia (which is also a good track from the band Ananke).



Edited by Formentera Lady - May 14 2015 at 10:27

Dean wrote: Chrome Hoof are a good example of what I am getting at in my previous post. When Greg (Logan) first introduced them to the forum I was blown-away and ordered the album without a second thought. The only difficulty we experienced was deciding where to add them (Eclectic or Crossover) - and that is as it should be for artists that stretch your/our conceptions and preconceptions of what fits into a specific subgenre. There are many ways of looking at the uniqueness of 1970s Prog and all of them are valid yet none of them are particularly accurate: You can take the global view that as a musical genre it was unique amongst its peers, and to some extent it was but there were other musical genres back then that were pushing against the same boundaries that had existed since the dawn of popular music - some of those other genres we have since incorporated into the Prog family but back then they were seen as separate; You can take a historical perspective that it was music of its age and that period in history was unique in itself, but that age has passed yet music continues to be made in the same subgenres, in the same styles and with the same philosophy and/or approach; And you can take the micro-scale view that each band of that era was unique and unlike any other yet this also was not true either as even then bands were being criticised for sounding alike and bands were doubly criticised for making albums that sounded like their previous releases. <span style="line-height: 1.4;">The thing is, everything everyone says is true (well... not everyone perhaps). Prog is all the things that everyone says it is but it is not solely what they say it is... it is an amorphous blob of a genre that has sprawled across the musical landscape like an amorphic blobby thing is prone to do. This is why defining what is and what is not Prog is like nailing a jelly fish to a the side of a boat. We often read that a band has "broke the mold", "pushed the envelope", "thrown out the rules", that they are "initiative", "experimental", "genre-breaking" and... erm... "progressive"... yet that alone doth not maketh them Progressive Rock - all good bands do this, it's what keeps music current and active. Without that every band would be a Bill Hayley & the Comets tribute band would it not? </span>

This hits the mark for me.

Or, should I say; nails the jelly fish to the boat?

Edited by HackettFan - May 14 2015 at 11:09

Formentera Lady wrote: First of all, I love contemporary prog. I always try to dig new releases to propagate them and make them more known to others. And I think there are some great releases around recently. That said, Dellinger, I somewhat see your point. There seems to be a kind of 'spirit' in the prog of the 70's that contemporary music often lack. Recently I heard on a prog radio a great song from a band I have never heard of (Morpheus), I googled them and... dang! The track appeared to be from the 70's. So I think it is legitimate to ask the question, what makes this kind of music from this time so special? My 5 cent on this would be, indeed, the bands of that time did not want to follow a genre, because it did not exist, yet. They wanted to cross the boundaries of all previous rock and pop. They wanted to add some daring sounds, melodies, rhythms etc. that at that time could only be found in classical music or non-european ('world') music. All of the sudden nearly all rock musicians at that time wanted to do it, even in the main stream. It was somehow 'in the air' and spread throughout the world like a wave. Those bands founded something that will be later called 'progressive rock', although they were not aware of it. They were many (even though not very commercially successfull at that time), and in this creative  environment everyone wanted to be better and more daring than the others. Maybe it explains a bit of the 'spirit'. Nowadays the 'genre' exists already, and bands playing in this genre are not influential at all in the artistic field anymore. They play in a musical niche for a relatively small amount of people. Of course, they play what they want, and you have to give them credit for not wanting 'to make money fast', but what seems to lack today is the artistic fruitful environment of that time.

Edited by Dean - May 14 2015 at 11:26

The early 1970s were a pretty interesting time for art in general, see also film and literature for that matter. I get the impression it wasn't a very fun time to be alive in, maybe it's different in other countries but the 1973 oil crisis hit my parents' generation harder economically than the 2008 stock market crash hit mine, for very similar reasons though!

Well, well, Mister Shamal. A very useful comment once again. If you had read the highlighted part in the context of the paragraph that it's part of, you would've understood. But, I guess picking on other people is more fun than trying to understand what they post. :-)

Angelo wrote: Well, well, Mister Shamal. A very useful comment once again. If you had read the highlighted part in the context of the paragraph that it's part of, you would've understood. But, I guess picking on other people is more fun than trying to understand what they post. :-)

Komandant Shamal wrote:   hey Mister Dean, what about to enlighten us, who were living in the cages, a bit more? what Zappa was back then if not a progressive rock act?

SteveG wrote: What made the 70's prog so unique? The fact that progressive rock music itself at that time was unique. Next.

Horizons wrote: SteveG wrote: What made the 70's prog so unique? The fact that progressive rock music itself at that time was unique. Next. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Sorry H, it was not quite the babbling rant that you offered at the start of this thread, but I tried my best to imitate you. Next.

Edited by SteveG - May 14 2015 at 16:23