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C.A. Picard - Electronic music on the margins

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CPicard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CPicard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2017 at 10:29
A more serious track, filled with martial drums and funeral bells:
http://https://soundcloud.com/c-dric-a-picard/1720a

Back when I made this track (2004), someone told me then it sounded like Death In June - which was strange, because I never listened to one note of this band at these times.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CPicard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2017 at 05:49
Do you love me now that I can dance?

http://https://soundcloud.com/c-dric-a-picard/000-666-777a

Beware: this track may be the harshest piece I ever recorded.








































Or not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2017 at 06:40
Me too, off on a tangent. ;-)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Asund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2017 at 03:28
I had wondered about that in the last day. Hell, have the mods scrub our posts from the thread. At least, I give permission (if desired) for mine to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2017 at 03:06
Can you guys please take this to PM or similarly start your own thread. Hijacking someone else's thread in order to establish what music is or isn't - is poor forum etiquette.
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Asund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2017 at 03:00
Nah, just unask the question. I told ya, I am the Fifth Illuminatus Primi, beau.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2017 at 01:36
"That of which we cannot speak, is that of which we must remain silent" - if we're doing Wittgenstein. ;-)



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Asund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2017 at 16:40
People have opinions. I have thoughts about things. Neutral/funxional, versus personal/social.
 
I use the word 'exploratory', as experimental has decades of anti-establisment sentiment, both ways, in the public consciousness. Exploratory is also open-ended. Of course, people saying something is experimental/exploratory, versus saying they are experimenting with/exploring some such. Good language equals good thought - Wittgenstein.
 
So I agree with you that some few have great talent. Yet, people in general are pretty capable. They need proper exposure and tools. There were people arguably with less talent and overall musical comprehension than I doing better composition assignments, because they just followed the guidance in the curriculum.
 
Musician to me does mean someone who can physically perform on an instrument. However, composers aren't necessarily musicians. Take Steve Roach, one of the top second-gen electronic composers, simply because he has composed most like a composer.


Edited by Asund - January 10 2017 at 16:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2017 at 05:11
PS I quite like Robert Fripp. ;-)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2017 at 05:10
Nope, Gwen is on another forum and does noise based electronic music. Well, "music" in a broad term. More experimental. She does some interesting stuff, but - well, it's music with a small m. 

The OP here describes his stuff as "on the margins". Which I think would be a fair comment if he'd actually shown us first that he can actually play, "and now here's some of my experimental stuff".

And this is the problem I have with "experimental stuff". The Dunning-Kruger effect now means that huge numbers of people consider themselves musicians as they can create sounds with a variety of electronics and software which wasn't previously available to the masses. 

Anyone can now make electronic noise. Pretty much in the same way that anyone can create abstract art. I've got some time for some artists, such as Picasso, who started off with some degree of talent and then explored boundaries. They've done their apprenticeship and paid their dues. However, for every one artist like that, there are 10,000 scribblers trying to pass a lack of talent off as "abstract art". 

Listening to M. Picard's jolly ditties, they invoke no imagery, have no dynamics - at least for me. It pleasures me not, and music is all subjective. Which is why you're perfectly entitled to your opinion, and so am I. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Asund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2017 at 04:52
I have my own definition of music. Though it starts with craft. Popcul had neat stuff through that time, but whether blokes like Robert Fripp, or the engineers and inventors developing the devices, the output was rarely Art Music level.
 
Gwen. Someone here?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2017 at 04:38
Taste doesn't get in the way of comprehension, I fully *comprehend* what is music and what is not music. This is noise. For "unfamiliar" music, I was listening to Amon Duul and early Hawkwind many years ago and I've always liked unusual music. 

This is a bit funny, as I'm English as well, as were a lot of experimental musicians in the 60's, Floyd being an example, so bang goes that theory. ;-)

As for quality, pop on the Muffwiggler website or ask my friend Gwen, who does "noise" much better than this. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Asund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2017 at 04:20
I'm sure he did. The English were pretty 'proper' gents, stuck in Vaughn Williams and that. The French at least were open to new things not necessarily their own. But taste too often gets in the way of comprehension, and some recognition of the quality in a thing unfamiliar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2017 at 02:02
Thomas Beecham, the famous English conductor, was asked if he'd ever conducted any Stockhausen. 

"No" he replied, "but I once trod in some."

Static is indeed noise. 
Noise is not music. Music has rules and conventions. 





Edited by Davesax1965 - January 10 2017 at 02:02

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Asund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2017 at 01:56
I amended my post some.
 
Static is noise. I like listening to it. Really enjoyed the fuzz on the TV as a kid, visually and aurally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2017 at 01:54
"Noise". 

There's a growing tendency in electronic music for non musicians to buy modular synthesizers and then just make noises on them. About 90% - possibly higher - of all people who actually own a modular seem to just plug everything at random and then somehow convince themselves that what they're producing is "music". 

Here's one I built earlier, at component level. Thing is, I'm really a saxophonist, but I'm also a multi instrumentalist. The woods are full of people with zero musical training - or the deluded who think being able to strum a few chords on a guitar turns you into a musician. 

I have a massively open mind about music. If you listen to my stuff, there are all kinds of influences in it. If I listen to the OP's stuff...... I'm very sorry. I don't even hear the beginning fundamentals of music.

"Not for me". Others taste may vary, and if the OP is happy with is work, fine for him. I would remind him that posting work on a public forum invites critique, and it's never all good. 



Edited by Davesax1965 - January 10 2017 at 01:59

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Asund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2017 at 01:53
Groovy.
 
.....it's a sonic phenomenon. If you're Stockhausen, it certainly is music. It's not concrete, though.

Edited by Asund - January 10 2017 at 01:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2017 at 01:51
Asund, I build analogue synthesizers for a hobby. No ring mod. 

It's certainly not music. I just mention this having actually been a musician for 41 years. 

THIS is electronic prog rock. I just happened to do it. Contrast and compare. 

https://soundcloud.com/brotherhoodofthemachine/brotherhood-of-the-machine-samarkand-suite

Also try this - less Eastern influences but more Krautrock oriented. 

https://soundcloud.com/brotherhoodofthemachine/brotherhood-of-the-machine-hin-und-zuruck


Edited by Davesax1965 - January 10 2017 at 01:53

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Asund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2017 at 01:45
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

But it isn't prog rock in any way, shape or form. 

I also do - did - electronic music - with prog rock influence. This is music concrete, if it's anything at all. 


 
It's music-concrete only if it's altered recorded sounds. Gross sounds, not samples. Sounds like he used a ring modulator and a sine tone.
 
Did you know I'm the fifth Illuminatus Primi?


Edited by Asund - January 10 2017 at 01:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2017 at 01:42
But it isn't prog rock in any way, shape or form. 

I also do - did - electronic music - with prog rock influence. This is music concrete, if it's anything at all. 

This is my particular take on electronic prog rock. You may notice (a) a high level of musicianship, hem hem, although I say it myself (b) adequate instrumentation (c) use of exotic scales and influences (d) story telling (e) I actually change time and key every so often. Like two minutes, in this case. ;-)

Apologies, but there's a distiction between noise and music. 

https://soundcloud.com/brotherhoodofthemachine/brotherhood-of-the-machine-samarkand-suite




Edited by Davesax1965 - January 10 2017 at 01:48

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