Consider uniting subgenre teams

I regulary read the Suggest New Bands and Artists Forum and I see how teams usually react to new suggestions. It's evident that some teams are overloaded and have long lists of new band to evaluate. I don't think it's far from truth that they have to listen almost only to music limited to the subgenre of their team. And I think that most people may not be willing to deal each day with music of only one specifis genre. 

That's why the PSIKE and ZART teams were created 

Meltdowner wrote: That's why the PSIKE and ZART teams were created

mogol wrote: Meltdowner wrote: That's why the PSIKE and ZART teams were created  As far as I understand, the creation of these teams pursued more local reasons and goals - some teams had little work, so their future existance seemed unreasonable. chopper wrote: But we'd still have to decided which genre to put each new band into - how would that be done? It seems PSIKE and ZART teams already know the secret.

I'll toss my thoughts in.  Back in the heyday of the site, when this database was being built the genre teams served this sight magnificiently. A lot of people, all with different interests, worked together within their teams and with other teams to fill holes in the database as we saw them. Some even pursued more ambitious adjendas to expand the overall breadth of the site from prog to more progressive.  I think years later those people have been vindicated for the large part of the music today harkens back to the original spirit of prog rock and are not following the moth eaten sonic and stylitic norms assoicated with 'prog rock'. Hell many bands today will tell you they are NOT prog rock, they are just following their musical muses and creating something progressive.. just like the old warhorses did back in the day.  I digress..

so where is the site today. For one with many fewer collabs who have teh time and inclination to dedicate the 100's of hours of their time that many of the 1st gen. genre team members had to do. The changed nature of the prog rock/progressive rock scene has meant things are different today. We used to be bombarded with requests to have bands added, many obviously by the bands themselves. Today.. the scene has fragemented to such a beautiful degree that many bands could simply care less if they are added here.  Some may not consider themselves prog rock, some are so jaded by the ultra-conversative views of many prog-rock fans (wait no 20 minute epics, no mellotron, no hippy drippy lyrics, and gasp.. a focus on song writing rather than musical w**kery. It can't be prog) that they don't care TO be added.

My solution to a problem I'm not even sure really exists. Elliminate genre teams alltogether. There is a established collaborator hierachy here. If you are at the top, SC status, you have earned it either through your knowledge or time given to the site, let those add bands as they find them.  The thing I've think many have lost sight of in the past, and some perhaps still today. Addition here is not some of f**king validation.. of musical validity.. it is a damn database. It is better to error on the side of inclusion rather than error by omission. If we know one thing ..we know that if you put 10 prog fans in a room, they will have 10 different views of prog rock. The site always should have kept in mind the site is for the USERS of it, thus when in doubt.. add 'em.


Edited by micky - June 14 2015 at 07:43

micky wrote: My solution to a problem I'm not even sure really exists. Elliminate genre teams alltogether. There is a established collaborator hierachy here. If you are at the top, SC status, you have earned it either through your knowledge or time given to the site, let those add bands as they find them.  The thing I've think many have lost sight of in the past, and some perhaps still today. Addition here is not some of f**king validation.. of musical validity.. it is a damn database. It is better to error on the side of inclusion rather than error by omission. If we know one thing ..we know that if you put 10 prog fans in a room, they will have 10 different views of prog rock. The site always should have kept in mind the site is for the USERS of it, thus when in doubt.. add 'em.

^ oh hell no. Not anyone.  Dude.. we earned those nice titles and honors we got here.  Sitting through 100's of great... and countless more that sucked.. albums and bands. 

Perhaps it is a good idea Hugues.. perhaps not.. I do think the genre teams served the site best when there was a database that was full of holes. That is pretty much cleared up, now it is keeping tabs on what is new and happening today.  Does it need to be changed, is there a problem that needs to be corrected. Nah.. I don't think so. 

However the notion of what might be best for the site is a different matter than corrected a 'problem' However as I noted above.. I simply don't think many care these days Hugues. It is like we noted in your thread in the collab zone my friend. The one distinct thing missing today that we had, and saw in the forumites back then, is ..

passion. 

yeah..  fiefdoms is what I used to call them.   I did have a couple myself.

That would obviously be a major roadblock to any substantial changes. Couple that with apathy about the whole process (if it ain't broke.. don't think about improving it) and I doubt there is really any chance or groundswell to have change.  Again man... those not added here could likely care less.. or else they'd be pounding the doors down.. and besides.. it is new age Hugues. The proliferation of blogs and improved social media sites (remember the old Myspace ) have made it so much easier for bands to find their audiences.. and more importantly.. audiences to find their bands. 



Edited by micky - June 19 2015 at 17:51

So well said Jim

ahhh..  let me be lawyer here too damnit!!! ..

As my own lawyer of course I wasn't taking aim at anyone....  now I'll play Jim's... I do have a history at... yes.. taking aim at collaborators for what I consider their short sightedness regarding additions...

as my own lawyer... I think Jim has his rose colored glasses on .. he does paint a lovely nostalgic picture.. yes we were all friends and had a blast working togeter.. but make no mistake..  things in the collab zone were not always pleasant...  and wasn't campfires and kumbayas... there were some serious differences in opinions and philosphies and they did manfest themselves.. at time in very ugly ways.  While team members got along great.. relations between some teams were anything but groovy..

though in Jim defenses.... I was common denominator in most of those 'issues'  Genre team leaders rightfully so took a great deal of pride and interest in our subgenres .. especially me.. as the ones I led were ones I helped build and create.  f**k with them.. and you had to answer to me.   Need I remind the jury there is a reason I have the record for hidden and deleted posts here at PA's.. part of the virtual war between two genre teams (their leaders) that went on here for years

in my closing arguments...  going Tom Cruise here... YOU CAN NOT HANDLE THE TRUTH MAN!!

no hidden cheap shot at genre teams.. past or present...  just an notion to improve.. not correct.. and perhaps give some impetus given the reality, that for reasons beyond their doing (see earlier posts),  the site (reflecting the nature of the overall scene today) has different needs the ones the genre teams served so well back in the day.

Finnforest wrote: Oh I didn't take the fiefdom word as directed at me, no worries. I just see it differently.  One man's "fiefdom" is something I choose to see as a team of passionate music lovers.  Difference in perception. but similar in practice...  when you invest 100's of hours of your time.. and often pints of blood to go with it...  you do see it as 'yours'.  Why did I take great care to leave my genre teams in good hands, like yours, they were my babies, my children. You sure as hell don't leave them with strangers or people you don't trust Fiefs?  Yeah... you could call them that. Guys, I would never suggest there were never differences of opinion....obviously there were differences of opinions and some were more heated than others.  But that is a natural part of any working process and it would exist whether there were teams or individuals making decisions.  Guarantee you on that one.  part of the point I'm making Jim.. is there were conflicts.. some respectful.. others not so much so. However those and the need for them are a thing of the past.  They were part of when this site was evolving, genres were being created and defined... and the genre teams were needed to help build this site and fill the holes. Generally amongst 'classic' era bands. Are they needed today?  I'd say no... the greatest ill of the genre teams is the one that directly relates to what the site faces today.  Teams voting ( naturally) of course based on whether they fit their sub-genres.. not whether they fit the site.  Today.. even more so than 10 years ago.. it is damn hard to pigeonhole these bands and artists into nice tidy subgenres.. thus even then we had band get ping-proged between teams.. how many artist got lost and never added? The "teams" format was never the problem.  I think it was more ego and personalities that were the problem, and that caused most of those fights. you could say that!   That is also not a shot directed at anyone, just a description of many of us at times, myself included. oh horsesh*t. You were a saint amongst sinners  Again, just my opinion.  I think the genre team concept has served us very well and still does.  And I think the current batch of them, from what I see, are doing an awesome job.  That's all I'll say unless there is a formal Collab Zone discussion to dissolve the teams.  there won't be... again..  it is human nature to go with the old 'if it ain't broke....' Then again that is why I had some of the conflicts I did.. I was quite aggressive back then in not just looking back (correcting).. but looking forward (improving). Some battles I won.. some I lost.  This one I know is a losing battle so I'm not investing the energy to fire the first shot within earshot of the admins or M@X. Then I'll joust some more...   Good thoughts all.  jousting is fun! I did always miss that aspect of the site during my vacation from here. A lot of smart and very intelligent people here.