Rodrigo y Gabriela - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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The Dark Elf View Drop Down

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Topic: Rodrigo y Gabriela
Posted: June 24 2015 at 07:20

I saw the acoustic/flamenco/metal duo Rodrigo y Gabriela last night at the Royal Oak Music Theater. My suggestion? Don't bother with their superb CDs, see them live. You have not seen anything until you see people moshing to two acoustic guitarists. But saying merely that Rod y Gab are just acoustic guitarists is like saying Michelangelo dabbled in painting. They are a self-contained metal/flamenco/rumba rock band including percussion and bass (they just don't need the actual drummer and bassist).

I suggest them for inclusion in PA, but where you put them category-wise is up for conjecture. They are definitely progressive (I did a search and didn't see any thread topics devoted to them, so I don't think I'm being redundant). Their studio discography is as follows:

re-Foc (2002)

Rodrigo Y Gabriela (2006)

11:11 (2009)

Area 52 (2012)

9 Dead Alive (2014)

"Hanuman" official video:

Jamming with Al Di Meola:

Cover of Metallica's "One" (with orchestra):

Edited by The Dark Elf - June 24 2015 at 07:23

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aapatsos

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Posted: June 25 2015 at 15:00

"They are definitely progressive" you say - I would be interested to see some progressive references to their sound.

A very good, skilled acoustic/flamenco duo - in my opinion, nothing to do with progressive rock music.
Interested to hear other views.

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Posted: June 25 2015 at 20:06

aapatsos wrote:

"They are definitely progressive" you say - I would be interested to see some progressive references to their sound.

A very good, skilled acoustic/flamenco duo - in my opinion, nothing to do with progressive rock music.
Interested to hear other views.

As if half of the grunting metal bands PA blindly accepts as "prog" have any "progressive references" to offer. Same drumming, same death growls, same penchant for banal Halloween lyrics and Friday the 13th album covers.

I would suggest that Rodrigo y Gabriela are not, in fact, simply a "acoustic/flamenco duo". Their major influences are metal and rock, not flamenco. If they switched their acoustics for electric guitars one could see the chording structures owe as much or more to metal than flamenco (as an historical note, they were members of the metal band Tierra Acida in Mexico before they switched to acoustics and moved to Europe and Ireland).

In addition to Metallica as an influence (and sterling covers of both Metallica and Zeppelin tunes), the duo can rattle off Pink Floyd (the song "11:11"), Hendrix ("Buster Voodoo"), Santana ("Hanuman"), Al Di Meola ("Logos") and Paco de Lucia ("Master Maqui") as influences for individual compositions.

There is an acknowledgment of Floyd's "Welcome to the Machine" in "11:11":

And even Dimebag Darrell on "Atman":

They delved into Cuban music on the album 52, and on "Ixtapa" featured world musician Anoushka Shankar (Ravi's daughter) on sitar:

If their fusion of disparate musical styles and influences is not considered progressive, and rock, then we need to delete half the bands accepted as prog on this site.

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Posted: June 26 2015 at 07:10

I'm with the OP re R&G - seen them several times & their wide range of musical influences & interpretations does to my mind put them well within the scope of this site.

The Dark Elf wrote:

As if half of the grunting metal bands PA blindly accepts as "prog" have any "progressive references" to offer. Same drumming, same death growls, same penchant for banal Halloween lyrics and Friday the 13th album covers.

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012

aapatsos

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Posted: June 26 2015 at 13:48

Thanks for showing your appreciation for past and current metal teams.

This does not really change my view on R&G, although an impressive duo, I can't see how they fit in progressive rock/metal. Also, I cannot find any references anywhere about them on the web having a connection to progressive rock.

Nevertheless, please suggest a sub-genre for evaluation where you think they might fit and I can send them there.

This is a reply by Dean in a previous thread

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Posted: June 26 2015 at 18:22

aapatsos wrote:

Thanks for showing your appreciation for past and current metal teams.

I wasn't denigrating your team, but rather the premise that so many metal bands are considered "prog" here on PA, and even more amusingly 10 different sub-variations on the theme. How is metal that includes death growls considered "progressive" when many metal bands have been doing the same old death-growling for over 30 years? That's the antithesis of progressiveness, that is stereotypical.

aapatsos wrote:

This does not really change my view on R&G, although an impressive duo, I can't see how they fit in progressive rock/metal. Also, I cannot find any references anywhere about them on the web having a connection to progressive rock.

No, Rod y Gab are not listed as prog elsewhere. So what? Do we need someone else's approval to make an informed decision? Do we need a critic from Rolling Stone or NME or some other half-ass site to define our site? Have you ever looked up the band Can on other sites? Wiki them, they are not listed as prog-rock, nor are they listed as prog on Allmusic or Rate Your Music sites. Yet here they are on the PA site, as prog as prog can be.

In any case, Rod y Gab are metal acoustic rock musicians (let that sink in, metal acoustic, how different is that?), that have flamenco and fusion influences. That is more innovative than half the metal bands on this site. Sometimes the strictures we put on the definition of "Progressive" defies logic. Besides, Rod y Gab have said in many interviews that they are not a flamenco band, they are a rock band.

aapatsos wrote:

Nevertheless, please suggest a sub-genre for evaluation where you think they might fit and I can send them there.

I looked at several categories and found that the band is ill-fitting in most of them. Perhaps you can delete half of the useless metal subcategories or eliminate Zeuhl (which is basically Magma and three other bands lost in the Alps somewhere). Yes, yes, I know, stepping on toes. Sorry.

Why is there no Mexican or South American designation? Santana albums prior to Caravanserai should be considered prog rock in my estimation, and there are many Cuban and South American bands that do not fit the PA categories. We have a "Rock Progressivo Italiano" designation when there hasn't been decent album out of Italy since the 70s (just kidding, Raff and Micky). PROGRESSIVO LATINO! ARRIBA!

I guess the only think that remotely makes sense currently is "Prog-Folk-metal" (ROFL), "Crossover Prog" or barring that "Prog-related". Although I do think that a South American category should be added considering so many new and old bands from south of the border that are influenced by Latin and not western music deserve recognition. PROGRESSIVO LATINO! ARRIBA!

And finally:

aapatsos wrote:

This is a reply by Dean in a previous thread

Well, that's that then. God has spoken. No sense in further discussion.

I respect Dean, but I think the PA deity is dead wrong in this instance.

A couple more videos, this one honoring Hendrix (complete with Hendrixian octaves):

And an Indo-prog influenced tune:

Changing themes, changing time signatures - if you don't consider that progressive metal (with acoustic guitars), I guess I no longer understand the term.

Edited by The Dark Elf - June 26 2015 at 18:30

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Posted: June 27 2015 at 03:31

Wow what a great band! Thanks for the heads up. Definitely going to explore further.

I completely agree with Thanos here though. PA is about prog and not progressive music per se. That's actually Moshkito's old bone... If we start to include music just because it's progressive, then we have to see it through - meaning opening the door to classical, hip hop, jazz, polka, trance, pop and every other style of music you can think of including yes flamenco.
Let me put it this way; Wu-Tang Clan are just as deserving a spot on here as this flamenco act. Different styles of music sure, but both are progressive inside their respective genres.

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Posted: June 27 2015 at 03:40

It's not about my team, PA is a collaborative environment, or so I wish to believe, and everyone can have input if he spends a bit of time and is genuinely interested.

Understand why you find death growls stereotypical but don't agree. Having death growls can't really stop a band from being progressive, even if it can sound as "regressive" as you say. How about all these Opeth clones? Should we exclude them from the site just because they are doing the same thing as Opeth did?

Again, I understand that you might not agree with the "definition" of prog metal on this site but generalisations don't really add much to the discussion. We could discuss about which metal bands you don't consider prog in another thread if you so wish Smile

If this was the "Innovative Music Archives" then I can see how R&G fit.

Some good suggestions up there - I am not an expert in latin music but could certainly bring this to Admins' attention, maybe it has been discussed before.

Thanks

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Posted: June 27 2015 at 04:11

Guldbamsen wrote:

Wow what a great band! Thanks for the heads up. Definitely going to explore further.

I completely agree with Thanos here though. PA is about prog and not progressive music per se. That's actually Moshkito's old bone... If we start to include music just because it's progressive, then we have to see it through - meaning opening the door to classical, hip hop, jazz, polka, trance, pop and every other style of music you can think of including yes flamenco.
Let me put it this way; Wu-Tang Clan are just as deserving a spot on here as this flamenco act. Different styles of music sure, but both are progressive inside their respective genres.

For prog with a flamenco flavour then look to Triana - it was searching for more information on them that I discovered Prog Archives.

There have been calls in the past to create a category for Triana's style of flamenco prog called "Rock Progresivo Andaluz" but the arguments in favour so far have been far from convincing.

What?

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Posted: June 27 2015 at 04:18

aapatsos wrote:

This is a reply by Dean in a previous thread

thanks for dragging that up. It's nice to see again posts I made a month after joining this site, especially when it gives the impression that even as a noobie member I had so much influence that my post managed to shut-down the suggestion. Wink

What?

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Posted: June 27 2015 at 04:43

It was the sign of things to come Wink

The Dark Elf View Drop Down

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Posted: June 27 2015 at 23:13

Thus, the entrenched bureaucracy has spoken and blithely return to listening to "Lift Your Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven", all the while claiming Godspeed You! Black Emperor is progressive rock when no other internet source defines them as such.

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Posted: June 29 2015 at 12:45

The Dark Elf wrote:

Thus, the entrenched bureaucracy has spoken and blithely return to listening to "Lift Your Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven", all the while claiming Godspeed You! Black Emperor is progressive rock when no other internet source defines them as such.

Shame on PA admins, for not following the "other Internet sources" wiseful advices!
They all should be dismissed, and PA should erase from its database every record made after 1989, its shameful sections about Metal, Post-Rock, RIO... should be erased, so the True Prog music will rise again and shine for centuries and centuries! Allelujah!

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Posted: June 29 2015 at 13:10

http://www.gepr.net/gi.html#GODSPEED

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Posted: June 29 2015 at 13:28

Their own facebook page defines them as post rock.

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Posted: June 29 2015 at 13:51

CPicard wrote:

Obviously, reading comprehension is not one of your strong suits, otherwise you would have noticed I was replying in kind to aapatsos, who made the comment:

"I can't see how they fit in progressive rock/metal. Also, I cannot find any references anywhere about them on the web having a connection to progressive rock."

I merely was pointing out that internet sources like RYM, AllMusic, Wiki, NME, Pitchfork and Discogs do not list GY!BE as progressive rock either, and as I own and enjoy GY!BE albums, I do not think they are what could be considered prog rock in their compositions at all. "Progressive", yes, "prog rock" not at all.

Gordy wrote:

http://www.gepr.net/gi.html#GODSPEED

The New Gibraltar Encyclopedia site makes no claim GY!BE is a progressive rock group either, so your claim is still tenuous, particularly since they use the term "chamber rock" to describe them and actually note their affinity to Apocalyptica, who they claim are not prog.

Edited by The Dark Elf - June 29 2015 at 13:54

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Posted: June 30 2015 at 06:37

^But that is a progressive rock site just like PA.

Either way, if you can persuade a team to evaluate them then by all means go for it. Maybe if you include a genre in the thread title you'll have more luck. I still can't see them listed on here tbh, but maybe others can.

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