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Isa
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 26 2009
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 152
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Posted: June 29 2015 at 21:18 |
Whatever, Steven. The fact is that most of what you can hear in the Prog rock style that makes it unique is found also in Steven's music.
It's really an arbitrary semantics debate, coming back to "what is progressive rock" debate. The majority of people who listen to progressive rock consider Steven Wilson's music progressive rock, so if we're going to be democratic about the issue, then there you go.
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The human heart instrinsically longs for that which is true, good, and beautiful. This is why timeless music is never without these qualities.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46828
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Posted: June 29 2015 at 23:16 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46828
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Posted: June 29 2015 at 23:28 |
timothy leary wrote:
Grind that ax
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someone has to wear the white hat around here and stamp out runaway musical mediocrity and uberfanboyism in the west
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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CryoftheCarrots
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 29 2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 674
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Posted: June 30 2015 at 00:51 |
Adam Holzman,Guthrie Govan,Nick Beggs,Marco Minneman,Theo Travis mediocre !!!!!!! Tell them that to their faces. I'm sure you must be an absolute ubermusician to rate them as that. Actually they are probably too humble to worry about that. At least GG was when I met him last year.(nice guy) Like I said SW reintroduced me to my old love 10 years ago. Here we are still arguing about him.
Edited by CryoftheCarrots - June 30 2015 at 19:05
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"There is a lot in this world to be tense and intense about"
MJK
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15916
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Posted: June 30 2015 at 01:08 |
CryoftheCarrots wrote:
Adam Holzman,Guthrie Govan,Nick Beggs,Marco Minneman,Theo Travis mediocre !!!!!!!
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Top-tier musicians. What a band. And I do think that in this day and age, labels are superfluous. Great music is great, bad music is bad - it's all in the ears of the listener. There's plenty of each to lap up (if you wish).
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progrockdeepcuts
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 14 2013
Location: West Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 394
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Posted: June 30 2015 at 06:48 |
I think it's possible to be a fan of SW without being a SW fanboy. There are a bunch of artists I like better - many of whom I know personally. I consider myself to be a fan of his work and an admirer of his ear and taste, but cutting edge he ain't.
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Listen to older shows here: mixcloud.com/progrockdeepcuts/
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319
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Posted: June 30 2015 at 09:56 |
I doubt your negativity toward Wilson will change anything. I find it hilarious you think negativity wears a white hat. Since it appears Wilson is devoted to music I would think he will be around in ten years and he will probably still be making music.
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Pastmaster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 23 2015
Location: Spiderwood Farm
Status: Offline
Points: 1774
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Posted: June 30 2015 at 10:35 |
timothy leary wrote:
I doubt your negativity toward Wilson will change anything. I find it hilarious you think negativity wears a white hat. Since it appears Wilson is devoted to music I would think he will be around in ten years and he will probably still be making music. |
Yeah, just hating on musicians and calling them mediocre isn't any better then being a fanboy. How about both sides just accept that everyone has different tastes.
Edited by Pastmaster - June 30 2015 at 10:36
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17492
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Posted: June 30 2015 at 13:17 |
In no way do I compare DT fans to SW fans, I agree the DT fans can be rabid ones that foam at the mouth. For sure they left this site, but not because another member forced them out, I think they left because they did not get buy in on their fanboyism of DT, the fanboyism still exists just not on this site. The popularity of DT on this site really dropped when Portnoy left, as much as people feel he is a turd, he basically was the heart/core of DT, essentially the post-Portnoy DT albums are without direction and purpose.
Steven Wilson's music is dark, melancholy and can be darn right depressing at times, but that is prog and certainly not pop rock. Saying he has not done a damn thing that will stand the test of time is a severe stretch, and I am being kind . Almost all the Porcupine Tree material was written by him, and there are plenty of those albums that already have stood the test of time and IMO will continue to do so, his solo material I think will follow along. Insurgentes is the one album most disconnected from anything else he has done solo wise, very experimental-drone-noise-shoegaze style/influenced hardcore rock, released in late 2008, so still not a "test of time album".
Sure SW is riding a pretty good wave right now, but not because fans have put him there, it's because what he is recording people like.
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progrockdeepcuts
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 14 2013
Location: West Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 394
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Posted: June 30 2015 at 13:29 |
^ Yes, my point was that not every SW fan is a rabid, maniac fanboy type. There are some people in the middle who like what he does, but don't see him as the be all end all. Like it or not, however, he's the face of this genre in terms of the mainstream. People like him who aren't necessarily diehard prog fans. Is he overrated? Perhaps, but personally, I think he's earned his acclaim and his place in the mainstream and our world. He's worked hard and stuck to his guns and its paid off. Respect where respect is due.
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Listen to older shows here: mixcloud.com/progrockdeepcuts/
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Pastmaster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 23 2015
Location: Spiderwood Farm
Status: Offline
Points: 1774
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Posted: June 30 2015 at 13:45 |
progrockdeepcuts wrote:
^ Yes, my point was that not every SW fan is a rabid, maniac fanboy type. There are some people in the middle who like what he does, but don't see him as the be all end all. Like it or not, however, he's the face of this genre in terms of the mainstream. People like him who aren't necessarily diehard prog fans. Is he overrated? Perhaps, but personally, I think he's earned his acclaim and his place in the mainstream and our world. He's worked hard and stuck to his guns and its paid off. Respect where respect is due. |
Exactly, Porcupine Tree is my favorite band but if someone doesn't like them or Steven Wilson, then that's their opinion and they have complete freedom to have that opinion. I don't like it though when someone overly screams their opinion, whatever it may be. I hate fanboys and I hate haters, both types act smug and feel like they're better then everyone else.
And to contribute to the original subject of the thread, I honestly couldn't care less what Wilson's genre is. The important part is that I, and many other people, enjoy his music. The only point of genres is for the listener to get a general idea of what they like. I don't have an issue with genres in of themselves, but honestly people take genres way too far.
Edited by Pastmaster - June 30 2015 at 20:31
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ginodi
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 13 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 62
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Posted: June 30 2015 at 21:06 |
Never heard the word "fanboy" until of late. Do I consider myself one? Nah, he's in my top 10 of artists, just as is Porcupine Tree. but I would proudly wear that tag for RPI.
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
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Posted: June 30 2015 at 23:12 |
progrockdeepcuts wrote:
^ Yes, my point was that not every SW fan is a rabid, maniac fanboy type. There are some people in the middle who like what he does, but don't see him as the be all end all. Like it or not, however, he's the face of this genre in terms of the mainstream. People like him who aren't necessarily diehard prog fans. Is he overrated? Perhaps, but personally, I think he's earned his acclaim and his place in the mainstream and our world. He's worked hard and stuck to his guns and its paid off. Respect where respect is due. |
That's right. I'm not his hard-core fan but I am a fan. His recent album perhaps could be better (I personally posted a poll here with all of HCE songs, using that former Grooveshark platform, before the album was officially released), but it is not the reason that arrogantly self-assertive individuals who are in a fury against the contemporary progressive rock in general, now spitting on such a great artist.
Edited by Svetonio - June 30 2015 at 23:12
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tboyd1802
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 01 2012
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 898
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Posted: July 01 2015 at 08:45 |
I had the pleasure of seeing Mr. Wison four times on the North American leg of his most recent tour. All of the shows were outstanding, the last night in Montreal was exceptional. The band (all exceptional musicians) was on fire, and he and the boys mixed up the standard tour set quite a bit, adding acoustic versions of "Trains" and "How is Your Life Today?", and in addition, he road tested a new extended piece of music at this show.
Just prior to the Montreal shows he did an extended interview as part of his participation in the Montreal Jazz Fest. It is available on YouTube here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Oo9UVpHedI&feature=youtu.be
Regardless of whether or not you personally find resonance in Mr. Wilson's music, I've always found him to be very well spoken, intelligent and exceptionally knowledgable about music in general, his influences and their contributions to his music, and his music within today's industry and social context. At one point in the interview the interviewer asked him if he listens to any new music himself. His response - yes, I listen to about 10 new cd's a week. My guess is that there are very few of us fans who consume this much new music ourselves.
In the end, who cares what we call his music. I for one admire him and all he has accomplished over the last quarter century, and like his music very much.
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He neither drank, smoked, nor rode a bicycle. Living frugally, saving his money, he died early, surrounded by greedy relatives. It was a great lesson to me -- John Barrymore
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ole-the-first
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 03 2012
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 1534
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Posted: July 01 2015 at 08:56 |
micky wrote:
someone has to wear the white hat around here and stamp out runaway musical mediocrity and uberfanboyism in the west
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Loool, here comes the ultimate musical truth, I guess
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This night wounds time.
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
Status: Offline
Points: 23098
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Posted: July 01 2015 at 09:02 |
tboyd1802 wrote:
I had the pleasure of seeing Mr. Wison four times on the North American leg of his most recent tour. All of the shows were outstanding, the last night in Montreal was exceptional. The band (all exceptional musicians) was on fire, and he and the boys mixed up the standard tour set quite a bit, adding acoustic versions of "Trains" and "How is Your Life Today?", and in addition, he road tested a new extended piece of music at this show.
Just prior to the Montreal shows he did an extended interview as part of his participation in the Montreal Jazz Fest. It is available on YouTube here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Oo9UVpHedI&feature=youtu.be
Regardless of whether or not you personally find resonance in Mr. Wilson's music, I've always found him to be very well spoken, intelligent and exceptionally knowledgable about music in general, his influences and their contributions to his music, and his music within today's industry and social context. At one point in the interview the interviewer asked him if he listens to any new music himself. His response - yes, I listen to about 10 new cd's a week. My guess is that there are very few of us fans who consume this much new music ourselves. <span style="line-height: 1.4;"> </span> <span style="line-height: 1.4;">In the end, who cares what we call his music. I for one admire him and all he has accomplished over the last quarter century, and like his music very much.</span> | Great post
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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ole-the-first
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 03 2012
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 1534
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Posted: July 01 2015 at 09:05 |
Svetonio wrote:
arrogantly self-assertive individuals who are in a fury against the contemporary progressive rock in general |
There's a lot of people like these anywhere. It's a very typical reaction for everything that is new, not only in musical background, so no need to waste your time for proving them they're wrong. In the whole information current all those ignorant opinions are insufficient and turn vestigial quite soon.
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This night wounds time.
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24391
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Posted: July 01 2015 at 11:27 |
If any of you think that not liking Wilson means one is against the contemporary prog scene, I am afraid you are sorely mistaken - at least if you are referring to Micky and me. I have spent the best part of the past six years supporting new bands and artists with my reviews (just click on either of the links in my signature if you want proof), and we both have spent a lot of money to attend concerts and festivals featuring mostly modern artists (including both Wilson and Porcupine Tree). So, rather offensive expressions such as the ones that appear in some of the posts above mine are out of place.
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17492
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Posted: July 01 2015 at 11:30 |
tboyd1802 wrote:
I had the pleasure of seeing Mr. Wison four times on the North American leg of his most recent tour. All of the shows were outstanding, the last night in Montreal was exceptional. The band (all exceptional musicians) was on fire, and he and the boys mixed up the standard tour set quite a bit, adding acoustic versions of "Trains" and "How is Your Life Today?", and in addition, he road tested a new extended piece of music at this show.
Just prior to the Montreal shows he did an extended interview as part of his participation in the Montreal Jazz Fest. It is available on YouTube here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Oo9UVpHedI&feature=youtu.be
Regardless of whether or not you personally find resonance in Mr. Wilson's music, I've always found him to be very well spoken, intelligent and exceptionally knowledgable about music in general, his influences and their contributions to his music, and his music within today's industry and social context. At one point in the interview the interviewer asked him if he listens to any new music himself. His response - yes, I listen to about 10 new cd's a week. My guess is that there are very few of us fans who consume this much new music ourselves.
In the end, who cares what we call his music. I for one admire him and all he has accomplished over the last quarter century, and like his music very much. |
Nice post ...Wife and I saw him in Seattle, the last US stop and I think we sent him off to Canada in a good mood. Several times the crowd gave him long applause, at one point he even commented "oh the second wave of applause.." As he asked us to sit and nobody did. Adam Holzman received huge applause as the only "US guy" of the band, as Steven said "Adam, these are your people, they love you!" It was pretty cool.....I totally agree on how articulate Steven Wilson is.
It's really nice to have him making the music he is right now......Is he progressive rock? The upper echelon of PA has already labeled him, so on this site he is progressive rock, other members are free to agree or disagree with that.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20483
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Posted: July 01 2015 at 11:33 |
Raff wrote:
If any of you think that not liking Wilson means one is against the contemporary prog scene, I am afraid you are sorely mistaken - at least if you are referring to Micky and me. I have spent the best part of the past six years supporting new bands and artists with my reviews (just click on either of the links in my signature if you want proof), and we both have spent a lot of money to attend concerts and festivals featuring mostly modern artists (including both Wilson and Porcupine Tree). So, rather offensive expressions such as the ones that appear in some of the posts above mine are out of place.
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Right on Raff. I love PT but not solo SW, and I don't know where this anti new prog thinking stems from.
I guess that if you don't love all new prog, then you're viewed as a hater.
Edited by SteveG - July 01 2015 at 11:39
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