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Big Kid Josie View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Emerson and Wakeman
    Posted: July 06 2015 at 16:24
I know, I know...these guys did their best work 35-45 years ago and aren't relevant to new prog fans, but humor me, I'm an old child of the 70's.

ELP was the first prog band I got into and my initial opinion was that Keith Emerson was hands-down the greatest keyboard man in prog, with Wakeman, Moraz, Lord, Fritz distant top 5 candidates.  Keyboard Magazine and keyboard players I knew seemed to feel the same way.  I certainly think Emo was, in his prime, an original, genre-defining player in early prog.  His technical playing and showmanship originally led me to value him highly over, say, Rick Wakemen.  But, after BSS, ELP seemed to fizzle out and lose inspiration.  I've been listening to a lot of early Wakeman solo albums lately---Six Wives, Journey, King Arthur, etc. and have been struck by how well-composed they are.  Now, Emo could compose with the best of them early on...Tarkus, KE9, etc.---but he seemed to fade out and not produce much except the soundtracks and occasional ELP reunion album. 

But I'm almost struck by the feeling that Wakeman was a better---or at least equally as good of a---composer as Emo.  I haven't heard much past his early stuff and the Recollections anthology, but I know Wakeman has certainly put out a lot of solo material.  While I gather that some/a lot of it is sub-par to the early 70's solo albums, it seems like even if 10% of it was good, he's a more prolific composer than Emo.

I know personal preference plays into this tremendously, but---as objectively as you can make it---do you think Wakeman was the better composer of the two, even if Emerson was technically more skilled? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2015 at 18:46
I've never bothered arguing which of the two is better (some say Moraz is better than either/both). Wakeman's recorded plenty of great music since the 70s, and he's far and away the more prolific composer of the two. There's another thread where I posted a list of post-1970s albums of Rick's that I think are great. I'll find it and paste it here later.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2015 at 21:11
I much prefer Emerson to Wakeman. My comparison is based mainly on their 1970s work, which is still a very relevant period for me, personally. 
            I must say that I like the playing and composing of Jurgen Fritz the most, though. Never a single banal note.


Edited by presdoug - July 06 2015 at 21:17
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2015 at 22:28
I like Wakeman better, both at playing and at composing. He's got far more albums and songs that I really like than ELP/Emerson. If you would like to check out something great from Rick after the 70's, check out "Out There", just a wonderful album too.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2015 at 04:11
I've always preferred Wakeman, although I am a massive Yes fanboi. Both are stellar musicians.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2015 at 04:35
I refuse to choose GeekLOL .
I always say I have four favorite keyboardists:

Rick Wakeman
Keith Emerson
Tony Banks
The guy from my avatar

Impossible to choose for me.
Maybe I should even add a nr. 5, since my love for Canterbury has grown through the years: Dave Stewart (Egg, Khan, Hatfield, National Health, Bruford etc.)


Edited by Moogtron III - July 07 2015 at 04:36
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2015 at 02:58
''Keith Who?'' LOL 
 
Wakeman pretty much jumped in and defined keyboard prog with Six Wives which is basically a perfect album technically and compositionally.
 
Emerson though is my long time hero. Tarkus..WOW! still remember playing that thing to death when I was 14 and still not bored zillion of plays later. When Emerson caught fire it was something else. I think a major part of his early success with ELP was down to Carl Palmer. Palmer pushed him to the absolute limit and I think one of the issues with Wakeman over the years is that he is not surrounding himself with stellar musicians like Palmer. I do like Out There though and the 2 Retro albums. Emerson though has produced some good solo albums with Marc Bonilla which should not be discounted.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2015 at 03:23
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:


Tarkus..WOW! still remember playing that thing to death when I was 14 and still not bored zillion of plays later.


It never gets boring after zillions of plays. One of the best pieces of music ever recorded
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2015 at 03:40
I'd prefer Keith Emerson playing, but I'd probably have a better night out if I went to "An Audience With Rick Wakeman".
I also love (Can't find the link) but in an online article, Keith was considered an influence on the creator of the soundtrack to the video game Final Fantasy VII, Nobuo Uematsu.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7wJ8pE2qKU This is from the final battle with the game boss and I think it's like something out of Tarkus between 2.14 and 3.22.

There's even an old thread on PA about the music from Final Fantasy and Keith Emerson's influence here:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17714

And if you have ever played the game or lived with someone who has, make your Friday complete by bringing them to tears with this golden moment from the Final Fantasy VII soundtrack that if it appeared on an ELP album, wouldn't have seen them as easy to destroy when Punk broke!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgAhcIBgkfk
OH GOD! IT'S GOT TEARS IN MY EYES TOO! I FORGOT THE FEELS!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2015 at 21:50
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:


''Keith Who?'' LOL 
 
Wakeman pretty much jumped in and defined keyboard prog with Six Wives which is basically a perfect album technically and compositionally.
 
Emerson though is my long time hero. Tarkus..WOW! still remember playing that thing to death when I was 14 and still not bored zillion of plays later. When Emerson caught fire it was something else. I think a major part of his early success with ELP was down to Carl Palmer. Palmer pushed him to the absolute limit and I think one of the issues with Wakeman over the years is that he is not surrounding himself with stellar musicians like Palmer. I do like Out There though and the 2 Retro albums. Emerson though has produced some good solo albums with Marc Bonilla which should not be discounted.
 


Well, when Wakeman has been with Yes he was surrounded by stellar musicians, specially on the two albums still with Bruford. None of them were inferior to either Emerson or Palmer.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2015 at 22:59
I enjoy Wakeman's playing honestly much more. perhaps it's because I'm more familiar with his work but I don't know.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2015 at 05:19
Personally I also believe that Jurgen Fritz from Triumvirat is one of the greatest. Many would say that he is heavily inspired by Emmerson, and in general that Tirumvirat is a clone of ELP, but (beaing a fan of both Elp and Triumvirat) I think that Fritz took the ''chaotic'' and chromatic composing style of Emmerson and made it go to eleven :P. There is a more classical and melodic approach with all the ''heavy'' prog elements.. I would recommend Illusions of a simple dimple, and specifically the song Mister ten percent. Amazing music and keyboard performance! 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2015 at 21:01
Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:

I refuse to choose GeekLOL .
I always say I have four favorite keyboardists:

Rick Wakeman
Keith Emerson
Tony Banks
The guy from my avatar

Impossible to choose for me.
Maybe I should even add a nr. 5, since my love for Canterbury has grown through the years: Dave Stewart (Egg, Khan, Hatfield, National Health, Bruford etc.)

Right there with you, Moogtron III!  Definitely my five favorites!  I would place Banks, Wakeman, and Jobson above Emerson (not in any particular order - maybe Banks and Jobson slightly above Wakeman as their string-instrument playing [Banks on guitar and Jobson on violin] no doubt extend the breadth of their composition abilities), with Stewart following closely behind...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2015 at 00:00
While I love Wakeman's work in the Yes framework on Fragile through Tormato, I've always ranked Emo much higher for his work during the Nice era through Works.  Outside of the 70's and on the solo album front, I don't really care for the work of either.  From a compositional to technically physical ability level, Emo comes way out on top for me.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2015 at 02:28
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:


''Keith Who?'' LOL 
 
Wakeman pretty much jumped in and defined keyboard prog with Six Wives which is basically a perfect album technically and compositionally.
 
Emerson though is my long time hero. Tarkus..WOW! still remember playing that thing to death when I was 14 and still not bored zillion of plays later. When Emerson caught fire it was something else. I think a major part of his early success with ELP was down to Carl Palmer. Palmer pushed him to the absolute limit and I think one of the issues with Wakeman over the years is that he is not surrounding himself with stellar musicians like Palmer. I do like Out There though and the 2 Retro albums. Emerson though has produced some good solo albums with Marc Bonilla which should not be discounted.
 


Well, when Wakeman has been with Yes he was surrounded by stellar musicians, specially on the two albums still with Bruford. None of them were inferior to either Emerson or Palmer.
 
agreed so I was really thinking more about his solo career . I would argue that Wakeman's best album with Yes was Going For The One probably because he gets to play pipe organSmile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2015 at 13:25
I was trained in Piano for 14 years, and Emerson's playing definitely stands out to me as good, but there is nothing he has played that I dont feel confident I can play.

But thats true about most non-classical, 2 handed works.

After a certain point, it doesn't make sense to compare them in a 1 dimensional "who has more skill", because they probably have their own strengths and weaknesses pertaining to which specific techniques they are good at.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2015 at 13:26
Tony Banks.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2015 at 16:36
Both are technically very skilled. I think Emerson did a better job in composing. Wakeman was good in supplementing compositions by others in Yes.


Edited by terramystic - July 29 2015 at 16:36
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2015 at 22:24
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:


''Keith Who?'' LOL 
 
Wakeman pretty much jumped in and defined keyboard prog with Six Wives which is basically a perfect album technically and compositionally.
 
Emerson though is my long time hero. Tarkus..WOW! still remember playing that thing to death when I was 14 and still not bored zillion of plays later. When Emerson caught fire it was something else. I think a major part of his early success with ELP was down to Carl Palmer. Palmer pushed him to the absolute limit and I think one of the issues with Wakeman over the years is that he is not surrounding himself with stellar musicians like Palmer. I do like Out There though and the 2 Retro albums. Emerson though has produced some good solo albums with Marc Bonilla which should not be discounted.
 


Well, when Wakeman has been with Yes he was surrounded by stellar musicians, specially on the two albums still with Bruford. None of them were inferior to either Emerson or Palmer.

 
agreed so I was really thinking more about his solo career . I would argue that Wakeman's best album with Yes was Going For The One probably because he gets to play pipe organSmile


For me, it's the two albums with Bruford... they may just as well be the pinnacle of prog for my taste. Plus, Wakeman did play pipe organ on the CttE title track too (though perhaps it was not as prominent as on Awaken).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2015 at 22:25
Originally posted by terramystic terramystic wrote:

Both are technically very skilled. I think Emerson did a better job in composing. Wakeman was good in supplementing compositions by others in Yes.



Actually, I like 6 Wives and Arthur much more than any album released by ELP, so I wouldn't really agree about the composing thing. I guess I could add to that list also Journey to the Centre of the Earth, Criminal Record, and Out There.
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