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Joined: June 01 2012
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 898
Posted: July 13 2015 at 17:45
Evolver wrote:
Peter Gabriel? After his first two albums, he was barely prog, if at all. From the third album on, he was adult contemporary pop (soundtrack album not included), much like 80's Genesis.
This doesn't really resonate with me. While albums three and four did contain massive pop hits (Games Without Frontiers, Biko, and Shock the Monkey) I would hardly classify the bulk of these two albums as contemporary pop. Overall, Melt is extremely dark and brooding - other than the short track length and simpler song constructs - not what I would call pop by any stretch of the imagination. While Security has definite world beat flavor to it, it too is pretty dark and not again what I would call pop-like. For me, the tipping point is So, while I think it is a great pop album, I don't really think of it as a progressive album.
He neither drank, smoked, nor rode a bicycle. Living frugally, saving his money, he died early, surrounded by greedy relatives. It was a great lesson to me -- John Barrymore
Joined: October 02 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 85
Posted: July 16 2015 at 10:12
tboyd1802 wrote:
Evolver wrote:
Peter Gabriel? After his first two albums, he was barely prog, if at all. From the third album on, he was adult contemporary pop (soundtrack album not included), much like 80's Genesis.
This doesn't really resonate with me. While albums three and four did contain massive pop hits (Games Without Frontiers, Biko, and Shock the Monkey) I would hardly classify the bulk of these two albums as contemporary pop. Overall, Melt is extremely dark and brooding - other than the short track length and simpler song constructs - not what I would call pop by any stretch of the imagination. While Security has definite world beat flavor to it, it too is pretty dark and not again what I would call pop-like. For me, the tipping point is So, while I think it is a great pop album, I don't really think of it as a progressive album.
Even on So, even though there are some major pop hits, stuff like We Do What We're Told (milgram's 37) and This Is The Picture (Excellent Birds) is amazing, and as dark and brooding and weird as Melt. None of Gabriel's albums are complete pop, and I'd argue neither were Genesis'.
Joined: April 03 2015
Location: Darlington, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 4706
Posted: July 16 2015 at 18:30
No! The Neo-prog bands like Marillion, IQ, Pendragon etc. saved prog here in the UK! Discipline was an interesting album, but of its time and never achieved that 'cross-over' effect to save anything. They were dark times indeed!
“Living in their pools, they soon forget about the sea.”
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
Posted: July 16 2015 at 22:41
Squonk19 wrote:
No! The Neo-prog bands like Marillion, IQ, Pendragon etc. saved prog here in the UK! Discipline was an interesting album, but of its time and never achieved that 'cross-over' effect to save anything. They were dark times indeed!
Of course that Discipline was an interesting album but tell me please, is Discipline also a prog album for ya?
Oh and don't forget that Discipline the albumhad nothing to with Neo Prog music what was / is actually a strand of English Symphonic rock (no doubt an authentically English thing and although great and very popular, Symphonic rock was / is just one of a number of the sub-genres of Prog) as same as e.g. Larks Tongue In Aspic (1973)had nothing to do with e.g. Selling England By The Pound the album (1973). That strand of English Symphonic rock that was labeled as "neo prog" in 80s, undoubtedly was started with Genesis' A Trick of the Tail (1976), so Neo Prog bands you mentioned above were actually tend to keep their stuff nicely frozen in 70s and everyone can hear it easy and immidiately at their first albums; I mind you, that wasn'tthe case with King Crimson's Discipline.
Joined: August 09 2015
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14106
Posted: August 13 2015 at 08:01
I think the reference to Math Rock is spot on. Discipline was stunningly innovative and very influential, except that what it did wasn't to "save Prog" but rather to pave the way for something new. To "save Prog" as a well-defined genre that was after its heyday, some less progression was actually required, rather something like a careful makeover, but that wasn't Discipline's job.
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
Posted: August 13 2015 at 09:20
Lewian wrote:
I think the reference to Math Rock is spot on. Discipline was stunningly innovative and very influential, except that what it did wasn't to "save Prog" but rather to pave the way for something new. To "save Prog" as a well-defined genre that was after its heyday, some less progression was actually required, rather something like a careful makeover, but that wasn't Discipline's job.
In my humble opinion,
(by the way I bought Discipline LPwhen it was released) that albumhas saved that development process of Prog, what is the most important moment in whole story. Of course,Disciplinewas just oneof a number of veryprogressive and greatalbums of 80s Prog, but as an album released by King Crimson i.e. prog gods, it was getting a lot of prog audience's attention at the time as new KC'srelease deserved aswell.
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Was KC's Discipline the album actually saved Prog?
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