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Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
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Points: 10213
Topic: Was KC's Discipline the album actually saved Prog? Posted: August 13 2015 at 09:20
Lewian wrote:
I think the reference to Math Rock is spot on. Discipline was stunningly innovative and very influential, except that what it did wasn't to "save Prog" but rather to pave the way for something new. To "save Prog" as a well-defined genre that was after its heyday, some less progression was actually required, rather something like a careful makeover, but that wasn't Discipline's job.
In my humble opinion,
(by the way I bought Discipline LPwhen it was released) that albumhas saved that development process of Prog, what is the most important moment in whole story. Of course,Disciplinewas just oneof a number of veryprogressive and greatalbums of 80s Prog, but as an album released by King Crimson i.e. prog gods, it was getting a lot of prog audience's attention at the time as new KC'srelease deserved aswell.
Joined: August 09 2015
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Posted: August 13 2015 at 08:01
I think the reference to Math Rock is spot on. Discipline was stunningly innovative and very influential, except that what it did wasn't to "save Prog" but rather to pave the way for something new. To "save Prog" as a well-defined genre that was after its heyday, some less progression was actually required, rather something like a careful makeover, but that wasn't Discipline's job.
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
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Points: 10213
Posted: July 16 2015 at 22:41
Squonk19 wrote:
No! The Neo-prog bands like Marillion, IQ, Pendragon etc. saved prog here in the UK! Discipline was an interesting album, but of its time and never achieved that 'cross-over' effect to save anything. They were dark times indeed!
Of course that Discipline was an interesting album but tell me please, is Discipline also a prog album for ya?
Oh and don't forget that Discipline the albumhad nothing to with Neo Prog music what was / is actually a strand of English Symphonic rock (no doubt an authentically English thing and although great and very popular, Symphonic rock was / is just one of a number of the sub-genres of Prog) as same as e.g. Larks Tongue In Aspic (1973)had nothing to do with e.g. Selling England By The Pound the album (1973). That strand of English Symphonic rock that was labeled as "neo prog" in 80s, undoubtedly was started with Genesis' A Trick of the Tail (1976), so Neo Prog bands you mentioned above were actually tend to keep their stuff nicely frozen in 70s and everyone can hear it easy and immidiately at their first albums; I mind you, that wasn'tthe case with King Crimson's Discipline.
Joined: April 03 2015
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Posted: July 16 2015 at 18:30
No! The Neo-prog bands like Marillion, IQ, Pendragon etc. saved prog here in the UK! Discipline was an interesting album, but of its time and never achieved that 'cross-over' effect to save anything. They were dark times indeed!
“Living in their pools, they soon forget about the sea.”
Joined: October 02 2007
Location: Canada
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Points: 85
Posted: July 16 2015 at 10:12
tboyd1802 wrote:
Evolver wrote:
Peter Gabriel? After his first two albums, he was barely prog, if at all. From the third album on, he was adult contemporary pop (soundtrack album not included), much like 80's Genesis.
This doesn't really resonate with me. While albums three and four did contain massive pop hits (Games Without Frontiers, Biko, and Shock the Monkey) I would hardly classify the bulk of these two albums as contemporary pop. Overall, Melt is extremely dark and brooding - other than the short track length and simpler song constructs - not what I would call pop by any stretch of the imagination. While Security has definite world beat flavor to it, it too is pretty dark and not again what I would call pop-like. For me, the tipping point is So, while I think it is a great pop album, I don't really think of it as a progressive album.
Even on So, even though there are some major pop hits, stuff like We Do What We're Told (milgram's 37) and This Is The Picture (Excellent Birds) is amazing, and as dark and brooding and weird as Melt. None of Gabriel's albums are complete pop, and I'd argue neither were Genesis'.
Joined: June 01 2012
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Posted: July 13 2015 at 17:45
Evolver wrote:
Peter Gabriel? After his first two albums, he was barely prog, if at all. From the third album on, he was adult contemporary pop (soundtrack album not included), much like 80's Genesis.
This doesn't really resonate with me. While albums three and four did contain massive pop hits (Games Without Frontiers, Biko, and Shock the Monkey) I would hardly classify the bulk of these two albums as contemporary pop. Overall, Melt is extremely dark and brooding - other than the short track length and simpler song constructs - not what I would call pop by any stretch of the imagination. While Security has definite world beat flavor to it, it too is pretty dark and not again what I would call pop-like. For me, the tipping point is So, while I think it is a great pop album, I don't really think of it as a progressive album.
He neither drank, smoked, nor rode a bicycle. Living frugally, saving his money, he died early, surrounded by greedy relatives. It was a great lesson to me -- John Barrymore
Joined: September 20 2010
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Posted: July 12 2015 at 23:25
Argor wrote:
"Saved" isn't nessesarily the right word but one can't undermine it's impact on prog. As far as I know the title track futures very complicated polyrythms that you couldn't find in earlier music, even in prog (maybe in Zappas music). The whole rythmic structure seems like an obvious influence to Prog Metal bands, not metioning Post-Rock/Metal and the whole Math scene.
I meant to write, "saved the honor of the Prog", in favor of all those who understand things in a literal manner, but it seemed too long for the title.
Joined: September 26 2010
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Posted: July 12 2015 at 23:23
Slartibartfast wrote:
...
I still find this notion of punk killing prog and prog going away in the 1980's totally wrong.
...
IIRC, didn't Johnny Rotten himself leave the Sex Pistols for more experimental pastures with Public Image Ltd.? Granted, he didn't go off to make grandiose stuff in the vein of Rick Wakeman, but still...
He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
Joined: April 29 2006
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Posted: July 12 2015 at 22:19
It's just another prog album. No need to make a big deal of it. Old progressive bands were moving in a more pop direction. Fripp was experimenting and then this album came out. I for me the timing was great. Seeing the band live on the tour was wonderful. I still find this notion of punk killing prog and prog going away in the 1980's totally wrong. You just had to move away from the old guys a little and explore new stuff that didn't sound like replications of the old stuff....
Joined: January 06 2013
Location: Poland
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Posted: July 12 2015 at 18:36
"Saved" isn't nessesarily the right word but one can't undermine it's impact on prog. As far as I know the title track futures very complicated polyrythms that you couldn't find in earlier music, even in prog (maybe in Zappas music). The whole rythmic structure seems like an obvious influence to Prog Metal bands, not metioning Post-Rock/Metal and the whole Math scene.
Joined: September 25 2010
Location: Melbourne
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Posted: July 12 2015 at 06:04
Bands such as marillion and Asia dug the grave for the future of prog
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Posted: July 12 2015 at 02:48
micky wrote:
Discipline was a good album.. Drama a year earlier was a much more successful adaptation of prog rock into modern (80's) music. Besides.. neither saved prog. Prog needed no saving.. nor did Neo save it.. it only kept in on life support and likely would have continued on life support even without Neo for shear inertia as many of the bands still today are playing.
I don't think so. Prog needed to be saved from going totally underground. Otherwise PA would be much smaller and poor today.
Joined: September 25 2010
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Posted: July 11 2015 at 19:28
Prog pretty much died 2 years later. Thankfully I can search through the 70s for 100s of great albums
Edited by dr prog - July 11 2015 at 19:31
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Was KC's Discipline the album actually saved Prog?
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Lewian wrote:
