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Topic Closed2nd Round Classics: Zarathustra v. Days of Future

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Poll Question: Pick One... if you can...
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micky View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: 2nd Round Classics: Zarathustra v. Days of Future
    Posted: July 25 2015 at 09:12
ouch man...   two beloved favs here


in the near corner.  One of the greatest of ALL prog albums. As noted so well by one of the greatest of all PA'rs..

Museo Rosenbach - Zarathustra CD (album) cover

ZARATHUSTRA

Museo Rosenbach

 

Rock Progressivo Italiano

4.29 | 612 ratings

From Progarchives.com, the ultimate progressive rock music website

maani
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5 stars I am notoriously stingy with 5-star reviews. Thus, I want to explain carefully why I am ready to put "Zarathustra" in the same pantheon as "In The Court of the Crimson King," "Piper at the Gates of Dawn," "Foxtrot," "Close to the Edge," "Thick as a Brick," and "In A Glass House," among others. Although it is not a "seminal" album like those noted above - and although it has some minor "flaws" (for example, the production is dated) - it nevertheless has a few things in its favor that far outweigh any minor quibbles, and definitely point to a legitimate "masterpiece."

Most important is its early arrival on the prog scene. Released in April 1973, the album was actually written during 1972: according to a Museo Rosenbach web site, all the tracks had been completed by mid- to late 1972. Thus, although the band claims Genesis as one of its major influences (along with Gentle Giant and Jethro Tull), it is highly unlikely that "Zarathustra" was influenced by "Foxtrot," given that the latter was not released until October 1972. This means that the "Zarathustra" suite - all 21 minutes of it - was not a response to "Supper's Ready," but was written contemporaneously with - and independent of - it. Based on this, and after numerous listenings, there is no question in my mind that the "Zarathustra" suite is every bit as creative and brilliant (re composition, musicianship, etc.) as "Supper's Ready." Yes, I realize this will sound like "blasphemy" to many; however, although I, too, believe "Supper's Ready" (along with "Thick as a Brick") to be perhaps the earliest, most important and influential "conceptual" prog "suite," the originality and execution of "Zarathustra" is every bit as creative, and proves itself worthy of the comparison. Indeed, had MR been as "well-known" as Genesis at the time, "Zarathustra" would probably have been just as influential as "Supper's Ready."

Also important to consider is that "Zarathustra" was MR's debut album. It took Gentle Giant three albums to get to their first conceptual "quasi-masterpiece" ("Three Friends"), Genesis four albums to get to "Foxtrot" (and "Supper's Ready"), and Jethro Tull five albums to get to "Thick as a Brick" - and none of the debut albums by any of these bands was anywhere near the masterpiece that "Zarathustra" is. Indeed, of the eight "seminal" progressive groups (Crimson, Floyd, Moody Blues, Genesis, Yes, Gentle Giant, Tull and ELP), only Crimson's "Court" and Floyd's "Piper" are equally great debuts (with ELP's debut coming pretty close).

"Zarathustra" is certainly influenced. Indeed, one can even discern the exact influences: Genesis' "Trespass" (1971), Giant's "Acquiring the Taste" (1971) and "Three Friends" (June 1972), and Tull's "Thick as a Brick" (March 1972). Yet Museo Rosenbach not only "filters" those influences beautifully to create something both creative and compelling, but "Zarathustra" also clearly influenced those bands' later work (as well as many other bands). That is, "Zarathustra" both draws from and adds to some of the earliest works of Genesis, Yes, Gentle Giant, ELP, Crimson and Tull - an extremely rare, if not unique, occurrence in prog-rock, especially given the comparative obscurity of MR.

The "Zarathustra" suite itself is one of the most beautifully and "carefully" crafted compositions in the history of progressive rock, and I use the word "carefully" in its literal sense: i.e., that great care was taken. The band neither rushes into things, nor lets things "sit" for too long. Every section - whether soft, smooth, slow and simple, or "hard," rocking, fast and complex - is constructed for maximum effect, with minimal (if any) "down" time. And although the vocals are not always as "immediate" as a Gabriel or Anderson (Jon or Ian), Stefano Galifi moves between soft and subtle and "immediate," using the natural raspiness in his voice to evoke a sense of "urgency." (There are also some very nice "choral" parts, sung entirely by the group.) Perhaps most remarkably, Galifi and the band are able to convey the story of Nietzsche's "Superman" (in both lyrics and music) quite well even if one does not understand Italian. For all of these reasons, "Zarathustra" stands on its own as an incredibly creative, often brilliant, and extremely early (if not seminal) concept suite.

The other three compositions (all of which are related, to one degree or another, to the Zarathustra story), vary in length from 4 to 8 minutes, and are all equally well-written and executed. (Indeed, the album is set up almost as a "reverse" of Foxtrot: i.e., imagine putting "Supper's Ready" first, and following it with "Watcher of the Skies," "Get'Em Out by Friday" and "Can Utility and the Coastliners.")

What makes any album a "masterpiece?" Obviously, there are the compositional, lyrical, musicianship, production and general execution elements. However, that is not enough. It must have something else: a quality that makes the album not only an exceptional achievement "in its time," but also an achievement that "transcends" its time - and, indeed, makes the album "timeless." Although, as noted, the production on "Zarathustra" sounds somewhat dated, it nevertheless "transcends" its time, and is not only a timeless masterpiece - in the truest sense of that word - but an exceptional, historically important album, and an absolute must-have for any serious prog-rock collection.

and in the other corner.. one of the most influential of all prog albums

reviewed by the master writer and slayer of TORMEN MAXT himself LOLLOLLOL Russell!!!!!

The Moody Blues - Days Of Future Passed  CD (album) cover

DAYS OF FUTURE PASSED

The Moody Blues

 

Crossover Prog

4.15 | 603 ratings

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russellk
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4 stars One of the most important precursors to progressive rock, 'Days Of Future Passed' is notable for the number of innovations it introduced to popular music.

It's not THE MOODY BLUES' first album, but it's the first after they re-formed in 1966, having shed their gentle R&B image and embraced psychedelic sensibilities. That they should have issued this record as their first of the new formation is nothing short of astonishing. To put out a concept album of wistful tunes about 'a day in the life' sandwiched between pop orchestral colourings hardly seems a recipe for success, but it worked extremely well.

Of particular note to me is the way the band operated. Each member apart from GRAEME EDGE composed songs for the band, (and even he did poems, most of them rather poor) and thus in a very democratic fashion THE MOODY BLUES incorporated a stunning variety of voices, vocalists and talents. This served to keep the band alive far longer than most of their contemporaries, and echoed THE BEATLES' method of working.

MICHAEL PINDER is worth noting. One of the very earliest adopters of the mellotron, his work was soon imitated by keyboardists the world over, and within three years the mellotron was the ubiquitous face of progressive rock.

At this point I must confess I do not much like this album. I'm a keen classical music fan, and it pains me to listen to what the LONDON FESTIVAL ORCHESTRA played here. These simple pop stylings do nothing for me. The crescendos are overwrought and unearned (the one following 'Nights In White Satin' is simply ghastly), and any instrumental virtuosity is sacrificed in favour of triangles and other mock-orchestral touches. Of all the music here, I'm interested only in the hits 'Tuesday Afternoon' and 'Nights In White Satin'. Overplayed they might have been, especially the latter, but they are both glorious amalgams of psychedelic rock and JUSTIN HAYWARD'S achingly beautiful voice, setting the scene for what THE MOODY BLUES would offer in the 1970s and beyond. The rest of the album is dated now, and was bland even when I first heard it. It receives a fourth star out of respect for its place in history.

By the way, this is one album you should listen to on vinyl. Not only is the sound so much warmer, the CD mastering changed a number of aspects of the album for the worse. Oh yes, JOHN LODGE'S falsetto is atrocious (listen to it on 'Evening'). Thankfully he used it less and less as time went on.

Overall, as everyone says, this is an album any serious devotee of progressive rock should listen to, even forty years later. Our prog metal friends will scratch their heads, as will our avant-prog fans, and wonder what the fuss is about. But this is part of your history too.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2015 at 09:14
Zarathustra Thumbs Up
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2015 at 09:22
^ And me
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2015 at 09:44
Not big on either album but I'll give it to the Moodies I guess.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2015 at 10:00
Easy pick for the Italians.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2015 at 10:02
Originally posted by Mellotron Storm Mellotron Storm wrote:

Easy pick for the Italians.


yeah same here. But for once won't go into a conniption if a popular English knocks out a superior but lesser known Italian. LOL Both great and much loved and deserve to advance.

However Zarathrustra is as good as anything ..anyone did.  Not bad for frickin debut album.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2015 at 10:09
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by Mellotron Storm Mellotron Storm wrote:

Easy pick for the Italians.


yeah same here. But for once won't go into a conniption if a popular English knocks out a superior but lesser known Italian. LOL Both great and much loved and deserve to advance.

However Zarathrustra is as good as anything ..anyone did.  Not bad for frickin debut album.

I'll go into a conniption for you Micky if Moody Blus win.LOL The orchestral crap between the songs makes me cringe but I get that many feel it's possibly the first Prog album and has historical relevance. Still that Museo album is a dark and heavy monster with plenty of mellotron no? I think so.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2015 at 10:13
yeah John.. but for some reason.. though I appreciate it, respect it, and enjoy the HELL out of playing it.. at very loud volumes. It never 'hit' the way other beloved RPI albums did...  since that is obviously the root of passion.. just how they hit me in the heart and soul.. I wouldn't be able to get worked into a tizzy.  It doesn't hurt that .. that particular reason..  hitting right in the heart and soul.. is exactly why I love DoFP so much. Such beauty in that album..  after how many years.. 40+ I've had that playing.. or played for me as a child (a parental fav).. I still TO THIS DAY.. tear up and the shear beauty and majesty of that music on that album.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2015 at 10:19
Moody Blues for me. I have a difficult relationship with Museo Rosenbach.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2015 at 10:39
Zarathustra, I seem to be voting for all the Italians this time around.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2015 at 11:21
Zarathustra, but it's close.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2015 at 11:29
Days of Future passed.


One of my best achievements in life was to find this picture :D
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2015 at 15:04
Moody Blues
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2015 at 16:07
The Moodies are more important in the history of prog evolution but Zarathustra is Zarathustra. It can't be denied. Can it?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2015 at 16:11
anything is possible at PA's...LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2015 at 16:31
Bloody Moohs !
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2015 at 16:34
...Noooooo my mobile battery is dead. night guys
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2015 at 16:50
Zarathustra without any doubt!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2015 at 18:46
The Moodies.
A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2015 at 19:05
Moody Blues
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