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Big Kid Josie 
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 Topic: Why so much Genesis love?
Posted: August 10 2015 at 15:32 |
OK, I am prepared to get flamed for this but: why so much Genesis love on this forum?
I actually love Genesis's work, particularly SEBTP and the 2 post-Gabriel albums before Hackett left---TOTT and WAW. I think they're a great 70's prog band and up there with Yes, ELP, Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Jethro Tull, Rush, et al. I get that Banks is a fine, elegant keyboardist, Collins a great prog drummer in their early days, and Hackett an original guitarist who made some beautiful, melancholy olde English ballads. I absolutely love Entangled, Blood on the Rooftops, Carpet Crawlers, Cinema Show, etc. I like Gabriel with Genesis, but actually like his early solo work even better. I don't like at all what Collins turned Genesis into, but I don't hold that against the band in their 70's prime either. I see them as 2 totally different bands, with Hackett and without him.
But I don't understand why they are lauded on this site above all those other fine 70's prog bands...can someone enlighten me? It's not that I don't think they're a great band, just not better than the others I mentioned above...
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micky
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Posted: August 10 2015 at 15:33 |
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hahhahah..
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LearsFool
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Posted: August 10 2015 at 15:36 |
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Might have something to do with their penchant for excellent openers, drawing people in. That is the one thing I'll always give them.
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micky
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Posted: August 10 2015 at 15:41 |
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easy listening prog.. non-offensive.. ie... not challenging. Easy to build up a large fanbase.. oh wait.. they didn't do until they discovered their true talents as pop masters supreme. It wasn't that far a turn for them anyway.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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rdtprog
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Posted: August 10 2015 at 15:47 |
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because they were different than those bands you mentioned. The music is not simply symphonic like Yes, ELP and experimental like KC and not close to JT. The music has that special atmosphere that you don't find in those bands, dark, mysterious, religious and funny at the same time. But love is irrational, you know...
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SteveG
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Posted: August 10 2015 at 16:08 |
Because they invented prog, silly! 
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Big Kid Josie
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Posted: August 10 2015 at 16:09 |
Yeah, I do find Genesis different from those other bands I mentioned. (I actually think all those bands are very different from each other, one of the great things about the early prog explosions.) So...they're more popular on this forum (or so it seems to me) because their version of being different appeals to more folks than those other bands, I guess...."Love is irrational", non-logical, etc.
It didn't seem like, at the time, Genesis was that popular in the 70's heydey. I mean, my friends and I dug them, but it was almost an unknown thing among other music-lovers back then...maybe they were too "olde english whimsy" for the States?
Not that popularity at the time says anything good or bad about a band. It just seems Genesis love is something of an after-the-fact thing/modern reappraisal...
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micky
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Posted: August 10 2015 at 16:11 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Big Kid Josie
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Posted: August 10 2015 at 16:14 |
Welllll...I get that you're probably being facetious, but...From Genesis to Revelation came out in 69 after Crimson's ITCOTCK and at the same time as the first Yes album, Floyd's Ummagumma, and the Moody's OTTOAD. I would say it's the weakest among those prog albums.
Although they made a string of fine albums when they got their classic line-up together.
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micky
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Posted: August 10 2015 at 16:16 |
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yeah Genesis did it all man... except sell records...
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SteveG
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Posted: August 10 2015 at 16:25 |
On a serious note, I think it's because they were complicated but still accessible. If that makes any sense. 
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HackettFan
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Posted: August 10 2015 at 16:39 |
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This is almost an impossible question because it is not about why I like/love Genesis, but why everyone else does too. My guess is that many like me discovered Prog through Genesis and thereby became the gold standard. I have always found their stature to be equivalent to Yes, but with better stories, better drama. Their playing is not quite as virtuoso-ish as ELP, but with more consistently better song(/instrumental) writing. Their song writing is equivalent in quality to Pink Floyd, but with better more intricate playing. I have always found their stature less than that of King Crimson Among Prog pundits, but there was a warmth to Genesis not found in KC (not at least until Wetton or Belew). Their instrumental work was more intricate than Jethro Tull. Rush is just plain different, nuff said about that.
Genesis were the first Prog band, to my knowledge, accrue a line tribute bands (unless we're counting the Beatles). This tends to indicate that they were quickly associated with a "golden age", most likely motivated by the sense of loss from PG's and to a lesser extent HF's departures. Genesis were also superior to many many other bands in terms of storytelling, but with their movement toward Pop came a movement away from that sort of storytelling, which brought a desire for the return of the old lore. Notice how many more references (like that of Hogweed and such) can be pulled out of Genesis material in a fashion that is widely recognizable across the PA spectrum.
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GKR
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Posted: August 10 2015 at 16:42 |
 SteveG wrote:
On a serious note, I think it's because they were complicated but still accessible. If that makes any sense. |
Kinda. But this question just came in a time exaclty were "Seeling England by the Pound" is almost passing Thick as a Brick in teh #2 and #3 positions... so... it kinda means something, right?
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SteveG
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Posted: August 10 2015 at 16:55 |
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^Don't forget that a lot of this love for Genesis was well after the fact. The most successful 'retro loved' prog band, IMHO.
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HackettFan
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Posted: August 10 2015 at 17:00 |
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Atavachron
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Posted: August 10 2015 at 17:02 |
Big Kid Josie wrote:
OK, I am prepared to get flamed for this but: why so much Genesis love on this forum?
I actually love Genesis's work, particularly SEBTP and the 2 post-Gabriel albums before Hackett left---TOTT and WAW. I think they're a great 70's prog band and up there with Yes, ELP, Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Jethro Tull, Rush, et al. I get that Banks is a fine, elegant keyboardist, Collins a great prog drummer in their early days, and Hackett an original guitarist who made some beautiful, melancholy olde English ballads. I absolutely love Entangled, Blood on the Rooftops, Carpet Crawlers, Cinema Show, etc. I like Gabriel with Genesis, but actually like his early solo work even better. I don't like at all what Collins turned Genesis into, but I don't hold that against the band in their 70's prime either. I see them as 2 totally different bands, with Hackett and without him.
But I don't understand why they are lauded on this site above all those other fine 70's prog bands...can someone enlighten me? It's not that I don't think they're a great band, just not better than the others I mentioned above... |
Actually if you hang around here enough, Floyd, Yes and Tull get about as much love. And to be frank, Genesis, in many ways, were better than the others mentioned, so I can't blame people for the love. Plus remember they are practically an institution in Britain.
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Catcher10
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Posted: August 10 2015 at 17:06 |
You are right in that in the early day's, Genesis was not popular in the US....but across the pond they were popular from the position that people knew their music. Some US side had heard it, what did not help was the Lamb Tour in the US started before anyone even had the album. Once Trick of the Tail hit I think US side is when they started to get more popular, not that any prog-band can be popular, it's not in the molecular structure of prog bands to be "popular".
Why they are revered on this site, like HackettFan says it must do with their writing styles, music and lyrics. There is something magical to it, they are telling stories......And for me it is the music, that line up of 5 members is probably the best there will ever be, next to Rush of course  .
If you, like some, feel their 80's music kicks them out of the prog scene then so be it, we all can have our own feelings. But that is the definition of progression, move on to something else...and yet they still created some amazing music. People just have a problem in the fact that they became so friggin POPular, who cares, they made a ton of money and they deserve it IMO. Their first 4 albums probably sold more issues after their more accessible music came out, makes sense as people wanted to discover where they came from.
Genesis are brilliant.....I am not sure many here feel they are head and shoulders over the others you mention, but where they stand on this site and other prog music sites seems correct in my mind, it's justified.
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HackettFan
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Posted: August 10 2015 at 17:09 |
SteveG wrote:
^Don't forget that a lot of this love for Genesis was well after the fact. The most successful 'retro loved' prog band, IMHO. |
For sure. That was exactly my point about them representing a lost age. After the fact certainly isn't unreal. Abraham Lincoln wasn't nearly so widely adored until he was assassinated. It's not uncommon for artists (painters, writers) to be more appreciated after they've passed away. Genesis is lucky to see some of their appreciation and legacy while they're still alive. But I think that the departure of PG and HF were seen as a sort of passing.
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t d wombat
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Posted: August 10 2015 at 17:14 |
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Collins became a megastar and Genesis went along for the ride. Pre Face Value they were popular but not exceedingly so though I think they always wanted to be, probably more so than many of their peers. Watching the various docos I'm always struck by the constant talk about wanting a hit single. Not sure about that at all but nonetheless they were good at coming up with the hooks and compared to most of their peers they were exceedingly melodic and far more accessible than e.g VDGG and KC, even Yes. Reality is that for a Prog lover they were easy listening, with just enough Prog pomp and circumstance to convince me, at least, they were the real Prog deal.
I've always felt it was the combination of good writing, a modicum of wit and excellent playing that sucked me in. Sure I wish they had continued to strive for art rock perfection but even so, and yes even in their later years, they still produced music that really took me with it. I was discussing CAS v We Can't Dance with someone here the other day and while doing so had yet another listen to Duke. I simply find that album along with others from the Genesis catalogue still puts a goofy grin on my dial that only some of Yes and Floyd achieved amongst the other big guns. None however did it so often as Genesis.
They also adapted pretty well to the changes within the group. Sure losing Phillips was sad but Hackett was a damn fine replacement and Stuermer is undeniably a great player live while few other drummers could have covered for Collins as brilliantly as Thompson. Of course there is the loss of the fella in the frock to deal with but thankfully they did go with Collins instead of choosing a more typical rock singer. Yes that probably worked against them in the end but that is another story really.
So OK, there are plenty of other outfits that are more than likely superior to Genesis and these days I probably only listen to something of theirs occasionally but when push comes to shove they will always be my favourite prog band. I'll readily admit that without Genesis (and Yes and Tull) I probably would not have explored this wonderful genre as much as I have.
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Andrew B
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dr prog
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Posted: August 10 2015 at 17:34 |
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I find them no better than a dozen bands from the 70-75 period. Trespass and Foxtrot are pretty good. The other 3 albums in that period are hit and miss. Gabriel never did much for me. His 80s stuff is pretty terrible
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All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Why so much Genesis love?
