ELP / King Crimson......Is This True????

Biggles wrote: Guillermo wrote: With all the "Big Ego" musicians in the music industry, I was thinking if some of these "arrogant" musicians join forces for a "supergroup", how it could be? For example, an "impossible line-up" like: Ian Anderson-flute and vocals. Roger Waters -bass and vocals, lyricist. Sting-vocals, acoustic guitar, bass. Robert Fripp-guitar and "Frippertronics". Bill Bruford-drums, Keith Emerson-keyboards, Ritchie Blackmore-guitar . Maybe these musicians couldn`t be in the same rehearsal room together for more than 30 minutes! Add Paul McCartney to that equation and you've got yourself a time bomb.

Add Rick Wakeman to that equation and you've got yourself an atom bomb.

bluetailfly wrote: Rust wrote: I wonder if the whole limo incindent with Fripp and Lake helped inspire Fripp to write the lyrics for "Easy Money"? No, I don't think so, because that that song come out before the limo incident. My understanding was that the limo incident occurred around the time of 1977's Works I (when, according to Greg Lake "you couldn't get arrested for being a member of King Crimson"). And besides, how would the reference to "licking fudge" relate to this experience? Feel free to use your imagination...

Actually you're wrong.  It happened in the 90s after the Epitaph boxset was released and they were on a signing tour.

"In July 1977, Emerson, Lake And Palmer, complete with a full orchestra, pulled into town for three sell-out nights at Madison Square Garden. Although ELP were the complete antithesis both musically and ideologically to Fripp’s new scene, the guitarist nevertheless went along to see the band in action and was able to get backstage before the band went on.

 
Lake recalls seeing his former bandmate for the first time since leaving Crimson back in 1970 as he made his way to the arena.  "And as I'm walking past this barrier I see Robert and I was shocked.  So I asked him what he was doing there and said to the roadie 'Get him out of the crowd and get him back into the dressing room and look after him'.  So up we go on the stage and we play the show." 

As Lake remembers, after the show the pair agreed to go out to eat.  "So we went off in the limo and we're going down the road and I said to him 'You know Robert, one day we ought to get our guitars out and play together again.  It's been so long since we did that.'  And he said 'I don't think so.'  So I said to the driver ‘Just pull over on the left here', opened the f**king door and told him to leg it.  I said 'Out you go' and I dropped him off.  I thought why was he like that?  It must have been jealousy.  There was ELP selling out three nights at Madison Square Garden and you couldn't get arrested in King Crimson at that time." 

 
"Not quite accurate," retorts Fripp.  “I went to all three of the MSG shows. I believe I went backstage every evening. After the final show there was a visit to a restaurant for the band and entourage, to which I was invited. Greg was vibrating with various suits and, at the end of the evening, sat me down to talk with him. Greg presented, in strong terms, the idea of a KC69 reformation."

Leaving the restaurant in the limousine with Fripp sat next to the driver and Lake in the back, the pair journeyed to Fripp's home.  Fripp recalls the conversation as the car stopped to let him out. 

Lake asked Fripp what he thought about the proposal of a KC69 reunion.  Fripp avoided a direct answer by asking Lake to give him a call. "So that's it? You want me to call you?" asked Lake.  Fripp replied "You already know my answer."  A perplexed Lake asked "You mean no?", to which Fripp replied: "That's right." 

Lake's limo drove off into the night. It would be several years before the pair met again."

SidSmith wrote: Thanks  Trotsky Sometimes stories have a habit of getting distorted over the passing of the years.  This is not meant as a criticism of Three Fates by the way. These stories get told and retold more so with the advent of the internet. I know for many people on the board the thought of a KC 69 reunion still holds a lot of juice and so I thought it might be useful to clarify some of the politics; ie both Greg and Robert have their own versions of the truth. As do we all.

Evidently Sid.. cause I was going by what Greg told me..

bluetailfly wrote: Big Ears wrote: If Robert Fripp did not want Greg Lake in King Crimson, why did he hire a soundalike in John Wetton? This is an observation not a criticism - Red is a good album. UK were also a very good version of ELP. Furthermore, Greg replaced John Wetton very briefly in Asia.  I don't see Wetton as a Greg Lake sound-a-like at all. Wetton and Lake are very different vocalists, and have very different artistic styles and personas. A look at their lyrics, for one thing reveals they have very different approaches to composing for music: Greg is more overtly sentimental and relies on the traditional troubador, singer/songwriter confessional style to express himself. Wetton is much more offbeat, and more of a contemporary type of poet/lyricist with a more ironic approach, less "Lend Me Your Love Tonight"-type of approach. Less of the first-person type of narrative. He was actually an excellent choice, because he allowed Fripp et al to move beyond the limited (though excellent) artistic range of Lake and compose music that doesn't have to highlight the vocalist as much as the first album did.

But as a bass player, Wetton sounds totally different from Lake. I can't even begin to see a similarity.

Mharo wrote: Guillermo wrote: "In March 1970, Greg Lake left Crimson to combine with Keith Emerson in a new group venture (see YES/ELP family tree). The plot had been hatched in stolen moments on the American tour, when Crimson were supporting The Nice at the Fillmore in San Francisco (for 4 nights: 11-14 December). Fripp`s subsequent suggestion that he might also join was vetoed by Emerson, who was not keen to work with a guitarist. (Jimi Hendrix had expressed interest in ELP too)." Is it true that hendrix thought about joining ELP? Hendrix, Emerson, Lake & Palmer (HELP)????

You can read the answer in http://www.emersonlakepalmer.com/bio.html  , ELP`s official website:

Several drummers were considered, spoken to, and/or auditioned; among them: Coliseum's Jon Hiseman, Cream's Ginger Baker, and Mitch Mitchell from The Jimi Hendrix Experience. 

It was Mitchell, whom Lake and Emerson believed had the most potential, and though Emerson wanted to keep the project a keyboard-bass-drums trio, there was serious talks to add Jimi Hendrix to the line up. 

"Yeah, that story is indeed true, to some degree." says Lake. "Mitch Mitchell had told Jimi about us and he said he wanted to explore the idea. Even after Mitch was long out of the picture and we had already settled on Carl, talk about working with Jimi continued. We were supposed to get together and jam with him around August or September of 1970, but he died before we could put it together." 

The rumors of the potential band with Hendrix did leak out to the British music press, who began running articles saying the band would be called "Hendrix, Emerson, Lake & Palmer" or HELP, for short. 

threefates wrote: Actually its only partially true. They weren't at a concert.. this happened after the entire original lineup was at Tower Records doing a signing when the "Epitaph" compilation was released.  In the limo on the way back to the hotel Greg asked Fripp what he thought about the original KC doing a reunion show.  He did not ask to rejoin KC, but wanted to get the original members together for a show. Fripp said something rude as usual.. something like "I'm not going back there"  and Greg had the limo stop and he asked Fripp to get out... It wasn't because Fripp didn't want to do it, but because he was rude in his response.

And still there's people who vote for the arrogant Robert Fripp´as a role model

People say he's a genius....I believe he's good, but not the genius people believes and much less the genius he believes he is.

The guy has treated fans, press and ex Crimson members as crap.

Iván

EDIT: I also read somewhere that Fripp had despective comments about an ELP or Greg Lake cocert, something that wouldn't be strange comming from him.

Have anybody heard about this?

Charles wrote: As for Greg Lake and John Wetton... Greg Lake had one of the best technical voices of anyone from the BRITISH symphonic era, and of the three in ELP, he was not a certifiable "virtuoso", but yet he like Mike Rutherford were excellent bassists... John Wetton's vocals were perfect for that incarnation of King Crimson, and as a bassist was far more authoritive and imaginative than Grege Lake... Charles

I totally agree with you in both respects. Anyway, I think that in ELP Lake was far more important as a vocalist than as a bassist. His virtuosity was in the way he sang more than in the way he played bass - which was rather difficult to hear amid the racket (I say it in an affectionate way!) made by Emerson and Palmer. In KC, however, you can hear much more of Lake's bass playing, and I think the synergy he had with Mike Giles was quite amazing.

On the other hand, it's true that Wetton was by far the better bassist of the two - as a matter of fact, one of the best of the whole prog scene. In both KC and UK he played very complex music, in which the bass was fundamental - with Bill Bruford as a drummer, no less! However, as everyone in PA knows by now , I think his vocal skills were rather weak when he joined KC. He got much better with time, but Lake is something else entirely.

Progger wrote: Ivan, At last we agree on something. To quote Steve Wilson in a recent interview ''King Crimson's output is patchy but I do like Red'.... iT BAFFLES ME WHY PEOPLE RATE FRIPP SO HIGHLY AS A GUITARIST He is certainly a very weak composer!!!!!

Don't understand why this agreement, because you're stating different things.

Never said anything about King Crimson's stuff, at least the debut album and Red are among my favorites.

I never said either that Fripp is overrated and much less he's a weak songwritter.

First talked about his personal character and then I said I believe  he's not the genius some people believes he is (And even less than he beleives he is) which is very different, but any guy who writes something as beautiful as Starless is not a weak composer in my book.

The word overrated is surely overrated.

Iván