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Tiresias View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Gentle Giant gets ripped apart
    Posted: August 20 2005 at 21:35

Hilarity does not ensue.

I gave my friend who introduced me to TFK, PoS, and SB the cd of Playing the Fool. 

The man is a musical genius who is possibly the smartest and most skilled musician I've ever met.

So... How did you like it?

Him: Oh god..the vocal fugue and counterpoint was disappointing. They were complex for complexities sake.  They sh*t all over what Bach did for counterpoint.  Just shabby songwriting if you ask me.

Well, sorry you didn't like it.  However I saw his point.  Compared to the subtle complexity of Bach's fugue and counterpoint pieces, Gentle Giant is child's play. 

 

I still love them though.

Wh'ghal ng'fth mglw'y Ry'leh, Cthulhu fhtagn...



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Tiresias View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 21:36
I also learned the most I ever wanted to know about counterpoint in 20 minutes from him. God, he's awesome.
Wh'ghal ng'fth mglw'y Ry'leh, Cthulhu fhtagn...



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 21:37

Ah. I don't like your friend's opinion.

Don't let Trouserpress see this thread!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 21:40
Originally posted by Yanns Yanns wrote:

Ah. I don't like your friend's opinion.

Don't let Trouserpress see this thread!

I was thinking that

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 21:41

I understand what he meant though

I don't hold it against him. Their song structure is not in acccordance with fugue patterns in the traditional sense.  The progression of a fugue is supposed to be three voices the first in the root note.  The second voice enters on the 3rd 5th or 6th of the note, as well as the third voice. 

Gentle Giant did this wrong, unfortunately.  My friend has mild OCD

Wh'ghal ng'fth mglw'y Ry'leh, Cthulhu fhtagn...



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 22:01
Originally posted by Yanns Yanns wrote:

Ah. I don't like your friend's opinion.

Don't let Trouserpress see this thread!

Well, Im a big GG fan too, and all that I can say is:

RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!
EXERIOR Experimental tech/death/progmetal from Norway!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 22:01
Originally posted by Tiresias Tiresias wrote:

I understand what he meant though

I don't hold it against him. Their song structure is not in acccordance with fugue patterns in the traditional sense.  The progression of a fugue is supposed to be three voices the first in the root note.  The second voice enters on the 3rd 5th or 6th of the note, as well as the third voice. 

Gentle Giant did this wrong, unfortunately.  My friend has mild OCD


But if everyone followed traditional patterns and didn't try doing their own thing, music would become unbearably stagnant and boring. We wouldn't have prog at all if nobody ever "broke the rules," so to speak, we'd just be listening to the same rehashed textbook musical ideas over and over again.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2005 at 22:13
hes kidding complex for complexities sake and he LIKES the flower kings, haha, when the flower kings write something original and artful i will throw myself out of a window in shock
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2005 at 07:15

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2005 at 07:28
He's forgetting that Gentle Giant were a rock band.   They shouldn't be judged on classical terms.   No classical composer has ever created the same kind of atmosphere and musical journeys that Gentle Giant created, Bach included.   Because of this, their music is just as valid as Bach's.    
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2005 at 07:30
let's be honest: when it comes to counterpoint no-one beats Johann Sebastian. but is it fair to compare Gentle Giant to him? I think not; Gentle Giant are a rock band, after all

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2005 at 07:50

I think it's funny that everyone here says that it's not appropriate to compare GG and Bach. Yet such inappropriate comparisons are done all over this website and no one takes offence. Prog Metal is compared to Krautrock, Neo-Prog to Symphonic Prog etc.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2005 at 08:18
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Neo-Prog to Symphonic Prog

I don't know that that's all that ridiculous, neo prog is after all influenced by '70s symph more than it is anything else (it's just not as good )
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2005 at 08:18
Originally posted by Tiresias Tiresias wrote:

I understand what he meant though

I don't hold it against him. Their song structure is not in acccordance with fugue patterns in the traditional sense.  The progression of a fugue is supposed to be three voices the first in the root note.  The second voice enters on the 3rd 5th or 6th of the note, as well as the third voice. 



I'm sure they were aware of the 'rules' but chose to use what they liked etc. Kerry Minear is a  classically trained organist I believe, so he would definitely have known about the bach way of doing things.




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2005 at 08:24

Maybe I'm wrong but I guess J.S. Bach still is the greatest composer who ever lived. Many composers/musicians who ever analysed his stuff and others would agree with me. I think GG themselves also would agree to that. So what else is new?

On the other hand. Had Johann Sebastian been born around 1950 he probably would have founded Gentle Giant 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2005 at 08:29
Originally posted by goose goose wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Neo-Prog to Symphonic Prog

I don't know that that's all that ridiculous, neo prog is after all influenced by '70s symph more than it is anything else (it's just not as good )

Read the definition on the website, it explains the difference pretty well. It's also my opinion that as a genre it's not as good as 70s Symph Prog, but there are some damn good Neo Prog bands.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2005 at 08:37
Every composer after Bach was influenced by him (at least those who knew him; in the late 18th / early 19th century he was almost forgotten; Mendelsohn and Schumann rediscovered him; both Mozart and Beethoven knew Bach though and admired him. Beethoven said about Bach: "He should not be named 'Bach' (German for brook), he should be named 'Meer' (German for ocean)".

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2005 at 09:27

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Every composer after Bach was influenced by him (at least those who knew him; in the late 18th / early 19th century he was almost forgotten; Mendelsohn and Schumann rediscovered him; both Mozart and Beethoven knew Bach though and admired him. Beethoven said about Bach: "He should not be named 'Bach' (German for brook), he should be named 'Meer' (German for ocean)".

Yeah, he was considered quite dull for some time. Even his own (forgotten) sons had a much "poppier" sound to them (almost like Gabriel and Hackett left).

"Though names may change each face retains the mask it wore"

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2005 at 09:30
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by goose goose wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Neo-Prog to Symphonic Prog

I don't know that that's all that ridiculous, neo prog is after all influenced by '70s symph more than it is anything else (it's just not as good )

Read the definition on the website, it explains the difference pretty well. It's also my opinion that as a genre it's not as good as 70s Symph Prog, but there are some damn good Neo Prog bands.

Yeah but surely they're not anything like so incomparable as krautrock and prog metal, or baroque and prog .
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2005 at 10:13
Originally posted by goose goose wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by goose goose wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Neo-Prog to Symphonic Prog

I don't know that that's all that ridiculous, neo prog is after all influenced by '70s symph more than it is anything else (it's just not as good )

Read the definition on the website, it explains the difference pretty well. It's also my opinion that as a genre it's not as good as 70s Symph Prog, but there are some damn good Neo Prog bands.

Yeah but surely they're not anything like so incomparable as krautrock and prog metal, or baroque and prog .

Agreed.

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