Gentle Giant gets ripped apart |
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Tiresias
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 03 2005 Status: Offline Points: 560 |
Topic: Gentle Giant gets ripped apart Posted: August 20 2005 at 21:35 |
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Hilarity does not ensue. I gave my friend who introduced me to TFK, PoS, and SB the cd of Playing the Fool. The man is a musical genius who is possibly the smartest and most skilled musician I've ever met. So... How did you like it? Him: Oh god..the vocal fugue and counterpoint was disappointing. They were complex for complexities sake. They sh*t all over what Bach did for counterpoint. Just shabby songwriting if you ask me. Well, sorry you didn't like it. However I saw his point. Compared to the subtle complexity of Bach's fugue and counterpoint pieces, Gentle Giant is child's play.
I still love them though. |
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Wh'ghal ng'fth mglw'y Ry'leh, Cthulhu fhtagn...
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Tiresias
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 03 2005 Status: Offline Points: 560 |
Posted: August 20 2005 at 21:36 | |||
I also learned the most I ever wanted to know about counterpoint in 20 minutes from him. God, he's awesome.
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Wh'ghal ng'fth mglw'y Ry'leh, Cthulhu fhtagn...
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Yanns
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 25 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 999 |
Posted: August 20 2005 at 21:37 | |||
Ah. I don't like your friend's opinion. Don't let Trouserpress see this thread! |
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Man With Hat
Collaborator Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team Joined: March 12 2005 Location: Neurotica Status: Offline Points: 166178 |
Posted: August 20 2005 at 21:40 | |||
I was thinking that |
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
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Tiresias
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 03 2005 Status: Offline Points: 560 |
Posted: August 20 2005 at 21:41 | |||
I understand what he meant though I don't hold it against him. Their song structure is not in acccordance with fugue patterns in the traditional sense. The progression of a fugue is supposed to be three voices the first in the root note. The second voice enters on the 3rd 5th or 6th of the note, as well as the third voice. Gentle Giant did this wrong, unfortunately. My friend has mild OCD |
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Wh'ghal ng'fth mglw'y Ry'leh, Cthulhu fhtagn...
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Bj-1
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 04 2005 Location: No(r)Way Status: Offline Points: 31157 |
Posted: August 20 2005 at 22:01 | |||
Well, Im a big GG fan too, and all that I can say is: |
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RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!
EXERIOR Experimental tech/death/progmetal from Norway! |
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Ty1020
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 24 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 721 |
Posted: August 20 2005 at 22:01 | |||
But if everyone followed traditional patterns and didn't try doing their own thing, music would become unbearably stagnant and boring. We wouldn't have prog at all if nobody ever "broke the rules," so to speak, we'd just be listening to the same rehashed textbook musical ideas over and over again. Edited by Ty1020 |
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Hangedman
Prog Reviewer Joined: November 03 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1261 |
Posted: August 20 2005 at 22:13 | |||
hes kidding complex for complexities sake and he LIKES the flower kings, haha, when the flower kings write something original and artful i will throw myself out of a window in shock
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The Hemulen
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 31 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 5964 |
Posted: August 21 2005 at 07:15 | |||
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oddentity
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 28 2005 Status: Offline Points: 248 |
Posted: August 21 2005 at 07:28 | |||
He's forgetting that Gentle Giant were a rock band. They shouldn't be judged on classical terms. No classical composer has ever created the same kind of atmosphere and musical journeys that Gentle Giant created, Bach included. Because of this, their music is just as valid as Bach's.
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10377 |
Posted: August 21 2005 at 07:30 | |||
let's be honest: when it comes to counterpoint no-one beats Johann
Sebastian. but is it fair to compare Gentle Giant to him? I think not;
Gentle Giant are a rock band, after all
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 20521 |
Posted: August 21 2005 at 07:50 | |||
I think it's funny that everyone here says that it's not appropriate to compare GG and Bach. Yet such inappropriate comparisons are done all over this website and no one takes offence. Prog Metal is compared to Krautrock, Neo-Prog to Symphonic Prog etc. |
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goose
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4097 |
Posted: August 21 2005 at 08:18 | |||
I don't know that that's all that ridiculous, neo prog is after all influenced by '70s symph more than it is anything else (it's just not as good )
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Off Centre
Forum Groupie Joined: August 19 2005 Status: Offline Points: 83 |
Posted: August 21 2005 at 08:18 | |||
I'm sure they were aware of the 'rules' but chose to use what they liked etc. Kerry Minear is a classically trained organist I believe, so he would definitely have known about the bach way of doing things. Edited by Off Centre |
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Sir Hogweed
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 29 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 191 |
Posted: August 21 2005 at 08:24 | |||
Maybe I'm wrong but I guess J.S. Bach still is the greatest composer who ever lived. Many composers/musicians who ever analysed his stuff and others would agree with me. I think GG themselves also would agree to that. So what else is new? On the other hand. Had Johann Sebastian been born around 1950 he probably would have founded Gentle Giant |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 20521 |
Posted: August 21 2005 at 08:29 | |||
Read the definition on the website, it explains the difference pretty well. It's also my opinion that as a genre it's not as good as 70s Symph Prog, but there are some damn good Neo Prog bands. |
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 02 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10261 |
Posted: August 21 2005 at 08:37 | |||
Every composer after Bach was influenced by him (at least those who knew him; in the late 18th / early 19th century he was almost forgotten; Mendelsohn and Schumann rediscovered him; both Mozart and Beethoven knew Bach though and admired him. Beethoven said about Bach: "He should not be named 'Bach' (German for brook), he should be named 'Meer' (German for ocean)".
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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
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Sir Hogweed
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 29 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 191 |
Posted: August 21 2005 at 09:27 | |||
Yeah, he was considered quite dull for some time. Even his own (forgotten) sons had a much "poppier" sound to them (almost like Gabriel and Hackett left). "Though names may change each face retains the mask it wore" |
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goose
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4097 |
Posted: August 21 2005 at 09:30 | |||
Yeah but surely they're not anything like so incomparable as krautrock and prog metal, or baroque and prog .
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 20521 |
Posted: August 21 2005 at 10:13 | |||
Agreed. |
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