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Topic ClosedModern album FINAL!!! Hybris v. Spirit of Eden

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Poll Question: pick the winner of the 2015 PA's modern album tournament
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
41 [44.57%]
51 [55.43%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Modern album FINAL!!! Hybris v. Spirit of Eden
    Posted: October 18 2015 at 17:01
Thank you Svetonio, after reading you, even I wanted to vote for Talk Talk.
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2015 at 16:46
Yeah, it was a fun contest. Thanks Micky ClapClapClap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2015 at 15:40
Oh what the fcuk .... Lazarus arise .... this may now be nowt but dust and ashes but damn it was a shame the way it ended and Mickey at least deserves a round of applause for putting the thing together. It was a sterling effort.

Clap Thumbs Up Clap


Edited by t d wombat - October 18 2015 at 16:57
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2015 at 06:17
And yet, this thread had been dormant for a few days, before someone (too lazy to check who) put a coin in the single-song jukebox to reliven the dying fire and cooling ashes

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2015 at 05:45
Originally posted by Barbu Barbu wrote:

*yawn*
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

OK, eight pages of jerking around
Abso-f**king-lutely. It's a snorefest of the first magnitude guaranteed to cure the insomnia of the most hypertensive person on the planet. It really is tedious in the extreme having to think of new things to say about a worn-out subject that should have been put to rest a very long time ago, I mean really, do we have to repeat the same old same old each and every time some clown mashes their grubby mits into the keyboard in the hope that the random stream of ASCII characters forms some kind of semi-coherent pronouncement that all will swallow without having to think. Has the forum really exhausted all viable topics of discussion such that all we have left is to turgidly drag out this monotony of insignificance and thus induce a somnolent coma of languorousness in not only those who can find nothing else to read on a nonplussed and indifferent autumnal morning but also in those who have managed to muster enough neural-activity to actually post something... but by Chripes do all the posts have to be so bloody boring? I try, I really do honestly try, I try to make the tedium more entertaining but at the end of the day the subject matter itself bores even me, I read *yawn* and internally translate that as "stop being a dick" and I see 'eight pages of jerking around' and again I internally translate that as "stop being a dick" because in the final assessment, responding to someone who cannot stop said activity is to behave like a dick yourself, oh the sweet irony as that domino effect ripples through every off-topic post in this thread. Yet still it's like a sloth on mogadons watching slow-motion replays of grown men playing golf in lake of treacle while wearing stupid trousers. If only there was a way of making these things more exciting like they do on Big Brother or Some Lobotomised Shitehawk's Got Talent, some way of prizing the can of generic lager and bag of potato chips from the pudgy fingers of the massed unwashed so they could create their own amusement instead of relying on others to keep them awake and entertained. Perhaps we could encourage some form of audience participation so they could zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz hu? what? sorry I dozed off for a few seconds there as Morpheus sprinkled sand in my eyes, what was I saying, humm, oh yeah, so they could invest in some intelligent debate of their own over and above giving the Roman thumb's-down from the Colosseum cheap seats in indignant lethargy induced judgement to the tiresome pissing contest that is nothing but a poor substitute for real animated and involved discussion. But yeah, *yawn*, it's like watching paint dry on a damp day when there is nothing else to do in life except trawl the forum looking for something mildly interesting to comment upon and drawing a total blank as your arse grows ever more numb from the lack of movement and your eyelids droop from the weary weight of under-stimulation. I see a thread about coffee has recently been started, perhaps that will wake us from our stupor.


tl;dr

*yawn*

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

 ... oh, and the score is 40-50. (I was so wrapped up in the ongoing discussion that I forgot about the poll  ).
 ... and so to page 9 before the sandman beckons us all to the ennui of mass catalepsy.


Edited by Dean - October 10 2015 at 05:56
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2015 at 05:29
OK, eight pages of jerking around, ... oh, and the score is 40-50. (I was so wrapped up in the ongoing discussion that I forgot about the poll ).

Edited by Dayvenkirq - October 10 2015 at 05:32
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2015 at 04:23
*yawn*
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2015 at 02:23
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

One thing is usually ignored by English mohter-language guys: some words may sound offensive but if translated back in their original languages may be not. Svetonio usually floods the teams with his suggestions but many of them are now on PA. I'm with Smurph for what it can matter.


Did think about that (I'm a French mother-tongued dude myself), but Svet's persistance in using the words after repeated remarks shows that he neither cares about his "maybe using the wrong words", nor was this choice of word is  by inadvertance








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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2015 at 21:18
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2015 at 20:25
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

One thing is usually ignored by English mohter-language guys: some words may sound offensive but if translated back in their original languages may be not.
Nope.  While I would agree with this on *some* instances where the translation of specific words can be misinterpreted, for example I have noticed that when dealing with Spanish speakers that sometimes the use of the word "ignorance" can sometimes be taken to mean "ignorant", this does not apply to phrases and whole sentences - so while this comment about us English mother-language guys is often used around here, I don't find it to be particularly convincing. Here we are not talking about the nuances of translation - the offence that Svetonio conveys in his jibes are exactly those he intended, so when he says:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 .... but it's all nothing without that great avant prog band Šarlo Akrobata LOL
I wonder who were the geniuses in that avant team who added them.
That's not an error in translation. He really is being sarcastic and he really is insulting you and your team.
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Svetonio usually floods the teams with his suggestions but many of them are now on PA.
Ah.. no. Not many but some. It is impossible to count how many bands he has suggested in the Suggest New Bands thread because the search only shows the last 100 but by extrapolating the time frame in which those 100 bands were suggested over the time in which he was active in suggesting bands then the total is probably approaching 500, add that to the bands he's "suggested" in Unsigned bands and all those in Bandcamp Recommendations, What Are You Plugging Now and all the other threads he spams with these "recommendations" then you are probably looking at close to 1000. Of that the small number that have been accepted is by far outweighed by those that have been evaluated and rejected. Frankly, you could do just as well by picking bands at random.
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

 I'm with Smurph for what it can matter.
Good for you. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2015 at 14:31
Well let me just end this with the mighty Pink Floyd Facepalm:
Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2015 at 14:25
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

One thing is usually ignored by English mohter-language guys: some words may sound offensive but if translated back in their original languages may be not. Svetonio usually floods the teams with his suggestions but many of them are now on PA. I'm with Smurph for what it can matter.
I don't think lingual nuances matter in this case one bit. Many of us have made it pretty clear to Svetonio that there's a line no one can cross.
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

It's not about suggestions but common forum behaviour.
Yes.


Edited by Dayvenkirq - October 09 2015 at 14:26
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2015 at 14:23
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Luca, this has nothing to do with his suggestions (many of which, as David pointed out, have been evaluated and accepted). This thread has been derailed beyond redemption, and this is very disrespectful towards the person who did a lot of work to put the Battle of the Albums together.

Indeed. I was just about to edit my previous post to reflect this.
It's not about suggestions but common forum behaviour.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2015 at 14:20
Luca, this has nothing to do with his suggestions (many of which, as David pointed out, have been evaluated and accepted). This thread has been derailed beyond redemption, and this is very disrespectful towards the person who did a lot of work to put the Battle of the Albums together.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2015 at 14:16
I guess it's quite easy to feel that way when you don't encounter him anywhere else Luca. To those of us who run into him on a daily basis and have to deal with his abusiveness, arrogance and downright hostile attitude towards anyone here who tries to make the site go around.....well we're all getting a bit tired of it all now.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2015 at 14:11
One thing is usually ignored by English mohter-language guys: some words may sound offensive but if translated back in their original languages may be not. Svetonio usually floods the teams with his suggestions but many of them are now on PA. I'm with Smurph for what it can matter.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2015 at 08:01
Originally posted by Smurph Smurph wrote:

Svetonio might not be correct but you all treat him more like sh*t than we treat anyone.

Personally I don't like post-rock much so this conversation is not for me. :) Just thought I would add my no sense.
Then how would you have us treat him? In a perfect world we should treat him with the same respect that we would wish to be treated ourselves and not as we perceive we are being treated. But the world is far from perfect and we are not saints, so when we are treated disrespectfully it is only natural to respond in kind. Because when all avenues of reasoned debate and argument fails then what is borne from exasperation and frustration is irreverence and mockery and so he is treated with the same contempt he levels at those who have the temerity to disagree with his fanciful, erroneous and unsubstantiated pronouncements. He reaps what he sows, a cycle that repeats ad nauseum.

As I publicly conceded when someone chastised me for mirroring his behaviour back at him in exaggerated parody, that can be seen as nothing better than lowering yourself to his level of 'argument', [note the use of irony-quotes], and that is indeed regrettable and in hindsight inexcusable, but in the heat of the moment perfectly justified. When someone is behaving like a dick then requesting that they stop being a dick is not without justification, and that is not an insult whereas actually calling them a dick most certainly would have been. Of course that "stop being a dick" incident was not the tipping-point, it is merely an oft-quoted excuse to avoid having to reply to my (predominately insult-free) counter-arguments. Why he needs an excuse is for others to decide, but presenting himself as the victim in light of all the denigration he heaps upon the PA, its collaborators and admins, and anyone who fails to agree with him does not garner a jot of sympathy from me.

Now luckily, as an indirect result of that reflex riposte, I have been placed in the enviable position of being able to pick-over and decimate his posts in fine detail without having to wade through a tirade of informal fallacies, non sequiturs, random meme-quotes, inexplicable YouTube videos and ad hominem replies that others have to deal with from him. And that's somewhat liberating because the only course of action left open to him is to discredit me as a person (which he has attempted on many occasions) and thus hope to belittle any counter-arguments I put forward ... which of course is another informal fallacy. His ineffectual jibes I can take in my stride since they are but mere words - and frankly a little robust commentary in a forum discourse is not something that should reduce anyone to weeping into their pillow at night - I can be momentarily offended and in that moment my ire will be piqued so I can rebuff, rebuke or ignore that at will, the choice is mine. (Anyone who plays the victim card as a result of my responding to a personal attack in like-minded fashion is pissing into the wind as far as I am concerned).

So. Enough of that bollocks, to the off-topic matter in hand: Are Talk Talk Art Rock? 

Well, yes they are - in the loosest definition of the term that is, bearing in mind that Art Rock is not a defined style of music where all artiste that have been tagged as Art Rock since the mid-60s can be identified as having common identifiable traits, because they don't. Art Rock is a catch-all for many disparate and unrelated bands that can also be identified by a "cloud" of other musicological taggings, some of these we would recognise as Progressive Rock and some we would not. Art Rock as a terminology is ambiguous, ill-defined and frequently misrepresented. This ambiguity allows too much room for argument and disagreement so (before my time) the PA decided not to continue using this term as part of its subgenre family tree, choosing instead to delineate the entire spectrum into those that were Progressive Rock (Heavy Prog, Eclectic Prog and Crossover Prog) from those that were not (Prog Related and Unrelated), whether anyone disagrees with that unilateral decision is immaterial, that is what we have and whether you agree or not, it works for us. Calling a band Art Rock is like describing a car as being "Red" or "Blue" - accurate but misleading and uninformative.

To say that Art Rock can be differentiated from another form of music by a single trait such as the style of singing is a fallacy since artistes tagged as Art Rock encompass a wide gamut of vocal styles that encompasses the whole Popular Music genre (as does Progressive Rock)  - if such a trait existed then the singers would be interchangeable (as they are in other music genres that can be identified as having a distinct vocal style, such as Soul music, Black Metal or Rap).

Wikipedia (and let's be rational here - like it or not, Wikipedia is a reference point and not the definitive be all and end all of critical argument), cites Talk Talk as being (among other things) as Art Pop and that in my estimation is a fair assessment for a band that transitioned from Synthpop to embryonic Post Rock over a brief career that spanned five studio albums. They are recognised as being the forerunners of what was later called Post Rock by their undeniable influence on that genre and not because they were the first to produce an album with Post Rock characteristics. If other artists created music with some of those characteristics before them, (and I would credit PiL with having done that in 1979) then that is fine too, as long as causation can be demonstrated (otherwise it is simply coincidence). Another Green World (and Before And After Science) are without doubt highly influential albums whose influence cut across many subsequent genres of music, but there the relationship to the bedrock of Post Rock albums created a two decades later owes more to what influenced Eno and those later Post Rock bands than the direct effect of Brian Eno himself. The argument for Talk Talk being regarded as a crossover between Art Rock/Pop and Progressive Rock (in the form of embryonic Post Rock) rests not on their earlier pop albums but solely with Spirit of Eden and Laughing Stock (arguably a contemporaneous 1990s Post Rock album), and unlike the Proto Prog and Prog Related categories where such things as "influence" and "history" are taken into account, in Crossover Prog (as with all "Prog" subgenres here) it is only the recorded music that is being considered. If anyone disagrees with their inclusion that's fine, though it must be remembered that no band will ever be removed from the database; criticise the music not the people who added them (no, it wasn't me so I don't take such criticisms personally), just as it is fine to question any band added here but anyone who attacks "the geniuses" (and that I believe was in itself a crass back-edit of a worse comment) who added them can expect nothing but a whole heap of foul-smelling effluent being dropped on them from a great height in response.




Edited by Dean - October 09 2015 at 08:28
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2015 at 21:03
I like turtles...err, threads not getting completely derailed, that is.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2015 at 20:25
haha
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2015 at 20:12
Yea but there used to be a genre listed on Progarchives so it can be a bit confusing haha
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