King Crimson "Red"

poeghost wrote: It's interesting that Red was one of Kurt Cobain's favorites, as I thought Red had a 90s alternative grunge sound. That was surprising to me coming from a 70s band. Out of all the Crimson albums I've heard so far, I like Red the least. I don't have a favorite yet. Still have to listen to more of their albums.

Be it grunge or post rock, Red had something dirty and direct about it, some kind of opposition against all too polished pretentious music (while still being quite complex) that paved the way for an aesthetic that was still to develop. In this sense it was a truly progressive album, to the point of being up against how some people had come to understand "progressive" as some kind of rather conservative, clean and somewhat "remoted from real life" genre. (You find some of these elements also in some output of Peter Hammill/VDGG before the 80s.)

Thinking about this I realise that I hated King Crimson's Earthbound live LP so much that I sold it and never came back to it because of its diabolically ugly sound, but one could well think that this was a predecessor of this aesthetic. I remember having read a positive review about Earthbound from the time when it came out in Sounds and being totally bewildered by the fact that anybody could like this. I think now I'd understand better what this was about. Perhaps this was a very early punk record.

Its pull-no-punches overall bleakness was magnificently realized, but it lacks the change of mood in the other two, which have lighter moods to enjoy.

If said mood reads "intense," then yes...accurate!

I love "Red", especially the title track and starless. There is just one thing, which beclouds this work: "The titletrack sounds very close to the music of the "Mahavishnu orchestra".

cstack3 wrote: I remember reading a review of "Red" at the time that said that the faces of Fripp, Wetton and Bruford on the album cover very accurately reflected the mood of their music on the album.  I've always thought that was a very accurate comment, you decide!  <div style="text-align: center;">

According to the literature in the 30th anniversary edition of Red, each of the three musicians were photographed separately and then the photos were combined for the resultant group shot. I'd say Wetton looks amused by the proceedings.

cstack3 wrote: This article showed up online: http://ultimateclassicrock.com/king-crimson-red/ Although I do enjoy "Red," I don't consider it to be my favorite of the LTIA era KC albums.  I thought that LTIA was the superior LP of the three, but I'm sure this is controversial.  Interesting that Bob deliberately "held Crimson back" from commercial success!!  What was he thinking?? Thoughts?

hieronymous wrote: USA is probably my favorite album - I love the way the guitar and bass sound, and the energy of the performances. That's part of why LTiA isn't at the top, because I much prefer the USA version of "LTiA Part 2" both sound- and performance-wise. That being said, my favorite studio album is Red. As a bassist, I was definitely influenced by the distorted bass sounds of John Wetton and I feel that Red has the best mix of production/sound, songs, and performance. Love the title track, the multitracked bass solo in "Fallen Angel," and the climax in "Starless" gets me every time. I'm not going to say one album is better than another - for instance, someone said they like Starless & Bible Black best, whereas I have never liked it, so different aspects of these albums touch us differently. I will say, though, that I have probably over-listened this album over the years - probably first heard it in the late '80s? - so I don't listen to it much now, or much King Crimson in general.

I don't have USA, but I do have Collectible King Crimson Vol 1, which features the same concert, but without overdubs nor edits. And Larks Toungues in particular I like better on the original album. Songs like Easy Money and Exiles do sound stronger on live versions, but LTiA pt 2 really misses Jamie Muir IMO. The percussions are just crazy with him.

Dellinger wrote: I don't have USA, but I do have Collectible King Crimson Vol 1, which features the same concert, but without overdubs nor edits. And Larks Toungues in particular I like better on the original album. Songs like Easy Money and Exiles do sound stronger on live versions, but LTiA pt 2 really misses Jamie Muir IMO. The percussions are just crazy with him.

I can see that Re: Jamie Muir on the original. I think my identity as a bassist colors my feelings on the song. I believe that I have read that John Wetton was gradually developing his distorted bass sound - to me, the sound on USA is just perfect and then they carried it over onto Red.

If I ever end up diving back into LTiA (the album) the percussion angle is a good perspective to approach it from. Wasn't Jamie Muir involved in some stuff with Derek Bailey pre-Crimson? I used to be more up on this stuff...

I can easily imagine why Fripp wanted to hold King Crimson from the brink of massive commercial success.
As with anything, success in small amounts is useful. It pays bills and enables you to pursue your craft further, so success in moderate measure is why KC is still around ....

But, more of a good thing isn't always better. A look at Fripp and his band shows the way they have always preferred to do things (and some including Robert himself would say this is what King Crimson "means") includes avant-garde exploration and improvisation. How many groups attain massive commercial success and still find the freedom to pursue their artistic craft with this kind of freedom?  I can't think of one.
After you've grappled with a ravenous critical press and huge fan-base pinning down who-you-are and what-you-do, you become labelled, codified, and then imprisoned by mass expectations.

That's the kind of thing I would always want to head off at the pass, were I in Fripp's position.



Edited by CapnBearbossa - August 25 2016 at 11:48

Lewian wrote: poeghost wrote: It's interesting that Red was one of Kurt Cobain's favorites, as I thought Red had a 90s alternative grunge sound. That was surprising to me coming from a 70s band. Out of all the Crimson albums I've heard so far, I like Red the least. I don't have a favorite yet. Still have to listen to more of their albums. Be it grunge or post rock, Red had something dirty and direct about it, some kind of opposition against all too polished pretentious music (while still being quite complex) that paved the way for an aesthetic that was still to develop. In this sense it was a truly progressive album, to the point of being up against how some people had come to understand "progressive" as some kind of rather conservative, clean and somewhat "remoted from real life" genre. (You find some of these elements also in some output of Peter Hammill/VDGG before the 80s.)

Edited by Mascodagama - August 25 2016 at 14:02