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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2019 at 04:04
So how was the Keswick show, Ken? Was getting good reviews on FB and the Keswick shows are rarely ever disappointing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2019 at 08:50
They've always been one of my favorite bands. Under-appreciated for sure, but they can play next to any of the great ones and come, if not on top, at least on the same level.  

Edited by Manuel - October 14 2019 at 08:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2019 at 09:52
Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

They've always been one of my favorite bands. Under-appreciated for sure, but they can play next to any of the great ones and come, if not on top, at least on the same level.  
 
Renaissance are my all-time favourite Prog-Rock band, and for that reason, they'll be the subject of my next song titles thread. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2019 at 07:33
The show was fantastic! The orchestra was involved from the first to the last, and much better integrated with the songs than before.  They also changed up the set list dramatically as you will see.  Annie was in fine voice though seemed less effective in the lower registers like on "Opening Out".  But "Day of the Dreamer" was definitely one of the highlights along with "Midas Man".  If there was a big disappointment it was probably in the highly touted special guest Jim McCarty.  He was introduced just prior to "Island" but did not speak at all, and he played acoustic guitar along with Mark Lambert, and he played again on Ashes, but his role was negligible.  I had hoped they would do eith "Spare Some Love" or "On the Frontier", two tracks which I believe he co-wrote.  To make room for other songs, both "prologue" and "Mother Russia" were bumped off the set list.  I didn't mind Prologue not being there but how can they not play "Mother Russia"?  Anyways, here is the list, hopefully in correct sequence

1. Carpet of the Sun
2. Ocean Gypsy
3. Running Hard
4. Midas Man
5. Symphony of Light
break
6. Running Hard (again!  They had failed to record it the first time)
7. Opening Out
8. Day of the Dreamer
9. Mystic and the Muse
10. Song for all Seasons
11. Ashes are Burning


Edited by kenethlevine - October 15 2019 at 07:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2019 at 07:47
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

The show was fantastic! The orchestra was involved from the first to the last, and much better integrated with the songs than before.  They also changed up the set list dramatically as you will see.  Annie was in fine voice though seemed less effective in the lower registers like on "Opening Out".  But "Day of the Dreamer" was definitely one of the highlights along with "Midas Man".  If there was a big disappointment it was probably in the highly touted special guest Jim McCarty.  He was introduced just prior to "Island" but did not speak at all, and he played acoustic guitar along with Mark Lambert, and he played again on Ashes, but his role was negligible.  I had hoped they would do eith "Spare Some Love" or "On the Frontier", two tracks which I believe he co-wrote.  To make room for other songs, both "prologue" and "Mother Russia" were bumped off the set list.  I didn't mind Prologue not being there but how can they not play "Mother Russia"?  Anyways, here is the list, hopefully in correct sequence

1. Carpet of the Sun
2. Ocean Gypsy
3. Running Hard
4. Midas Man
5. Symphony of Light
break
6. Running Hard (again!  They had failed to record it the first time)
7. Opening Out
8. Day of the Dreamer
9. Mystic and the Muse
10. Song for all Seasons
11. Ashes are Burning



Thanks for the review! I guess McCarty was brought in more to honour him, being the 50th anniversary concert series. It's been way too long now.

Well, it was good that they had to redo Running Hard because it didn't get recorded because I read a fan saying they did it much better the second time around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2019 at 07:51
There have been complaints about leaving out Mother Russia. They could have cut out Ocean Gypsy and Opening Out to make room for it. Oh well. I am very interested in how Mystic and the Muse was orchestrated because it's already so dramatic. Made for the orchestra like Russia or SFAS track. And if Annie did hit that climactic high note on Mystic thus time too, she might just make a record of sorts as the oldest singer to hit a sixth octave note live in concert.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2019 at 08:02
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

There have been complaints about leaving out Mother Russia. They could have cut out Ocean Gypsy and Opening Out to make room for it. Oh well. I am very interested in how Mystic and the Muse was orchestrated because it's already so dramatic. Made for the orchestra like Russia or SFAS track. And if Annie did hit that climactic high note on Mystic thus time too, she might just make a record of sorts as the oldest singer to hit a sixth octave note live in concert.

I thought they did Mystic great.  My friend thought the song too cacophonous.
I thought the logical one to leave out in favor of Mother Russia would have been ASFAS given they have played it the last few times and they were already doing 2 orchestral tracks from that album.  But it is wonderful and it's made for the orchestra.

I do think they are at the point now where they need to come out with a new studio album because there isn't much left to do on stage
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2019 at 08:07
ps TBH Running Hard isn't one of my faves.  I was kind of hoping Midas Man was the one they failed to record.  That to me is one of the most chilling songs ever, rich and atmospheric
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2019 at 08:36
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

ps TBH Running Hard isn't one of my faves.  I was kind of hoping Midas Man was the one they failed to record.  That to me is one of the most chilling songs ever, rich and atmospheric


Yeah, Running Hard isn't one of my favourites either and we have heard it way more often than Midas Man.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2019 at 08:37
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

There have been complaints about leaving out Mother Russia. They could have cut out Ocean Gypsy and Opening Out to make room for it. Oh well. I am very interested in how Mystic and the Muse was orchestrated because it's already so dramatic. Made for the orchestra like Russia or SFAS track. And if Annie did hit that climactic high note on Mystic thus time too, she might just make a record of sorts as the oldest singer to hit a sixth octave note live in concert.


I thought they did Mystic great.  My friend thought the song too cacophonous.
I thought the logical one to leave out in favor of Mother Russia would have been ASFAS given they have played it the last few times and they were already doing 2 orchestral tracks from that album.  But it is wonderful and it's made for the orchestra.

I do think they are at the point now where they need to come out with a new studio album because there isn't much left to do on stage


Annie has mentioned wanting to do a new album often times. Yeah, it's time they do it. If not, maybe arrange a farewell tour and have Camp and Sullivan on stage one last time to sign off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2019 at 08:44
^ yep
She did mention Camp once on stage this time as one of the songwriters they have had over the years.  She also mentioned Betty Thatcher.  But she didn't mention the Relfs at all.

A reunion with sets by the classic lineup, at least those who are left, and the original lineup (ditto) playing early Renaissance and Illusion songs would have been great, but maybe that can be part of a farewell extravaganza.  I mean, Annie probably can't keep this up much longer and Rave is not a young un either  Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2019 at 09:42
^ More then a reunion with Camp and Sullivan, I would like to see McCarty back in the songwriters chair. If his solo album Through The Fire is any indicator, he's as good a songwriter as the late Dunford.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2019 at 09:44
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

^ yep
She did mention Camp once on stage this time as one of the songwriters they have had over the years.  She also mentioned Betty Thatcher.  But she didn't mention the Relfs at all.

A reunion with sets by the classic lineup, at least those who are left, and the original lineup (ditto) playing early Renaissance and Illusion songs would have been great, but maybe that can be part of a farewell extravaganza.  I mean, Annie probably can't keep this up much longer and Rave is not a young un either  Embarrassed

I guess it is hard for her to imagine a life without singing (even though she did stay away from live performances until 2009).  But she even mentioned in a recent interview that touring is taking a toll on her.  I think she should call it a day when she is still able to sing beautifully and go back to painting.  All the more so because there isn't much left for her to prove. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2019 at 09:46
Chances are probably slim to see them in Europe these days? Unfortunately I've never managed to see them live. I'd probably go from Italy to London, say, to see them, but it may not happen anymore. (For some reason I couldn't go when they played in London 2015 and I was still living there.) 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2019 at 10:01
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^ More then a reunion with Camp and Sullivan, I would like to see McCarty back in the songwriters chair. If his solo album Through The Fire is any indicator, he's as good a songwriter as the late Dunford.

Hi Steve!  I really enjoy MCcarty's solo albums expecially "Out of the Dark" and the Renaissance Illusion album you mention.  But his last one sounded like a man who is content with his lot and not about to return to daring songwriting.  I guess you never know

Re playing in UK, with all active members of the band being US-based, it seems probable that won't happen again.  But who knows, maybe that will be part of their farewell tour Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2019 at 09:24
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

 
Annie has mentioned wanting to do a new album often times. Yeah, it's time they do it. If not, maybe arrange a farewell tour and have Camp and Sullivan on stage one last time to sign off.

I reiterate this as I hear a mobile phone recording from the New York concert of SFAS where Annie is just way, way offkey.  This was bound to happen at some stage.  I just hope this didn't happen at Keswick (as that would make the DVD a disappointing experience) but this is another indication that the time is ripe for Annie to step down gracefully.  Shouldn't get to the point where fans start grumbling about getting conned. I sincerely hope somebody like Rave will be truthful and sincere to her because the problem for singers this legendary is they will be constantly surrounded by people raving about them and not giving them an honest opinion. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2019 at 09:29
As we keep rolling, no major problems in Carpet of the Sun.  The complex orchestral layers of SFAS may have confused her.  Still, the point stands as this should not happen to a singer who has performed with the RPO without putting a foot wrong even in the face of screaming static from the mic. 

Edited by rogerthat - October 16 2019 at 09:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2019 at 09:55
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

As we keep rolling, no major problems in Carpet of the Sun.  The complex orchestral layers of SFAS may have confused her.  Still, the point stands as this should not happen to a singer who has performed with the RPO without putting a foot wrong even in the face of screaming static from the mic. 

I recorded a bit of Island, which by the way I love, and never noticed much on the original album.  It has that hippy vibe like Spare Some Love and on the Frontier which, while atypical for Renaissance, does link them to that mystical tradition of that period.  They do a great orchestral part on it too.  I'll try to figure out how to share it here
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2019 at 10:05
[[/TUBE]
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^ More then a reunion with Camp and Sullivan, I would like to see McCarty back in the songwriters chair. If his solo album Through The Fire is any indicator, he's as good a songwriter as the late Dunford.

Hi Steve!  I really enjoy MCcarty's solo albums expecially "Out of the Dark" and the Renaissance Illusion album you mention.  But his last one sounded like a man who is content with his lot and not about to return to daring songwriting.  I guess you never know

Re playing in UK, with all active members of the band being US-based, it seems probable that won't happen again.  But who knows, maybe that will be part of their farewell tour Clap

Yeah, I agree that McCarty needs to get off of his celestial cloud. Lol, but can you imagine Annie singing lead on this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2019 at 09:59
There has been, for sometime, a tussle over what really happened with She Is Love and it's come to the fore again in an FB group of Renaissance fans...of which Jon Camp himself happens to be a member. 

So, there are two conflicting versions of what happened that led to Jon singing the song rather than Annie. 

Jon first said in an interview given for the Renaissance Fanfare web group (which too has migrated to FB, I believe) that the backing track had somehow come out at the wrong key and Annie was unable to sing so he had to get it done and by using a lot of effects because it was way too high for him.  


Now whose feathers exactly were ruffled by this interview is not clear but the wiki entry for Song for All Seasons reproduces a version purportedly given by Annie in an interview. I say purportedly because there is no citation for the interview, which is very odd, as all interviews given in the last ten or so years by Annie were up on online outlets.  


Anyhow, this version claims that Annie was too sick to record on that day and Jon ended up recording it himself.  

Somebody raked up this in the FB group I mentioned and here's what Jon had to say. 

"Annie said that the song was in a perfect key for her during rehearsals, so it was orchestrated as such-when it came to record the vocals-it turned that there had not been enough care taken by her in choosing the correct key and therefore she was unable to complete the vocal art-as thousands of pounds had been spent on the said orchestration it could not be wasted as an album track-I certainly didn't want to sing it, and I too skip it on the rare occasions I play the album( I have a tendency not to listen to my own music) It was hell to sing, completely beyond my range and we had to throw that many effects at it to make it passable that it took a long while to do. Any other take on this is pure fabrication in order to save face-hope this clears it up once and for all."

Pretty scathing words there.  LOL  Well, let's see whether this clears up the matter or stirs it up anew. 
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