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Meltdowner 
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Joined: June 25 2013
Location: Portugal
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 Posted: December 30 2015 at 11:43 |
 Catcher10 wrote:
The best thing about the recent LZ reissues on vinyl is the big sound from Bonham, just like the original issues. On some of those I bought the super deluxe versions that included the CD, so I have done several A/B comparisons and those CDs are now drink coasters.  I was hoping they would sound better...
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True, I also have some LZ coasters now 
moshkito wrote:
Except Klaus Schulze ... the mix is always different and the listen ... another treat! And sometimes even longer ... and longer ... and longer ... and you become serialized heavenly experienced! |
I agree, Schulze is one of the exceptions.
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Nightfly
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Joined: August 01 2007
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Posted: December 30 2015 at 17:17 |
Catcher10 wrote:
Nightfly wrote:
I've just got the new Opeth Deliverance/Damnation remix package on vinyl and Damnation in particular has never sounded better - lovely warm open sound. It's certainly far better than the original Cd. Deliverance, not so much, I'm on the fence.
Not prog, but 2 albums that I've never heard as good on Cd as Vinyl are Rainbow Rising, Cozy Powell's drum fill at the start of Stargazer sound way to low in the mix on all versions i've heard compared to my original vinyl, even a 180gm audiphile version, though still much better than the Cd.
Deep Purple's Made In Japan, the power and depth from the grooves of my original 70's vinyl version have never been beaten unless there's a version I've not heard. The Cd sounds very thin in comparison. |
I agree with you, 70's power rock/metal almost always sounds better on vinyl, especially the original issues. The mix on drums has that big beefy sound on vinyl. The CD versions always sound thin and without beef, those lower tones seem to fail with digital for some reason.
The best thing about the recent LZ reissues on vinyl is the big sound from Bonham, just like the original issues. On some of those I bought the super deluxe versions that included the CD, so I have done several A/B comparisons and those CDs are now drink coasters. I was hoping they would sound better... |
I've bought all the super deluxe LZ box sets except Coda which I'll get around to and the vinyl in particular does sound great. I'm yet to do a direct comparison to my 70's LZ vinyl though.
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RoeDent
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 08 2009
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 850
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Posted: December 30 2015 at 17:48 |
This feels like a good place to post an observation I have:
Karn Evil 9 by ELP is so long (29:37) that it can't fit on one side of vinyl, so in some ways it paved the way for the long epics we see today by the likes of Transatlantic (or most of Neal Morse's bands) and The Flower Kings. The rise of the CD meant we are now able to hear these long pieces uninterrupted.
Edited by RoeDent - December 30 2015 at 17:49
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Catcher10
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Joined: December 23 2009
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Posted: December 30 2015 at 18:43 |
Nightfly wrote:
Catcher10 wrote:
Nightfly wrote:
I've just got the new Opeth Deliverance/Damnation remix package on vinyl and Damnation in particular has never sounded better - lovely warm open sound. It's certainly far better than the original Cd. Deliverance, not so much, I'm on the fence.
Not prog, but 2 albums that I've never heard as good on Cd as Vinyl are Rainbow Rising, Cozy Powell's drum fill at the start of Stargazer sound way to low in the mix on all versions i've heard compared to my original vinyl, even a 180gm audiphile version, though still much better than the Cd.
Deep Purple's Made In Japan, the power and depth from the grooves of my original 70's vinyl version have never been beaten unless there's a version I've not heard. The Cd sounds very thin in comparison. |
I agree with you, 70's power rock/metal almost always sounds better on vinyl, especially the original issues. The mix on drums has that big beefy sound on vinyl. The CD versions always sound thin and without beef, those lower tones seem to fail with digital for some reason.
The best thing about the recent LZ reissues on vinyl is the big sound from Bonham, just like the original issues. On some of those I bought the super deluxe versions that included the CD, so I have done several A/B comparisons and those CDs are now drink coasters. I was hoping they would sound better... |
I've bought all the super deluxe LZ box sets except Coda which I'll get around to and the vinyl in particular does sound great. I'm yet to do a direct comparison to my 70's LZ vinyl though. |
One reason the vinyl sounds better, to my ears, is they are pressed from the 24bit masters and the CDs are truncated down to redbook which is 16bit..so some detail is missing or not heard as well as on the vinyl versions. Just a thought.....
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024
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Posted: January 03 2016 at 12:44 |
moshkito wrote:
When I look back to almost 50 years, I'm glad that the LP's are gone.
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They are actually increasing sales faster than any other medium and pressing factories are being set up to cope with demand, actually! LPs are VERY much still here.
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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Atavachron
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Posted: January 03 2016 at 13:14 |
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^ As is network TV, live radio, and movie theaters. Who'd have thought.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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dr wu23
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Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
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Points: 20451
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Posted: January 03 2016 at 13:58 |
IMHO vinyl is more of a nostalgia/fad thing right now and not because of 'sound quality'. I have been listening to vinyl for a very long time being an old fart and it simply doesn't sound better....different yes,,,better no. It comes down to a matter of taste ...as always with music. Most of the younger people I know are not buying turntables and vinyl but still doing the download thingy and I Pods, etc. As an example my son in law and daughters who like to listen to popular music aren't into vinyl and my best friends kids in their early 30's aren't really into vinyl either. I have offered to give them some of my old classic rock and they said thanks but no thanks. I still buy the odd used piece if I find something interesting from the local record shops but imho buying new and old vinyl is a collectors thing and not a mainstream purchase mode with most music fans.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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Catcher10
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Joined: December 23 2009
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Posted: January 03 2016 at 16:35 |
Yesterday is the past, the future is tomorrow and today is today......Rock n roll was dubbed a "fad", longest existing fad there is in my mind  . Vinyl is not a fad, it never went away and doubt it ever will, ask the pressing plants all over the world that have 3-6 month order files and waiting list. CDs have more of a chance of going away than vinyl does, unfortunately. CDs are not even looked at for portability anymore...why would you?? Vinyl never was, the cassette tape was the vinyl killer in the 70s, especially for portability. Today it's the digital file, regardless of resolution....the fad item is the CD, it only exists because they are cheap to make. Better sound comes in the form of hi-rez 24bit digital files, the CD pretty much is at the bottom of the audio quality spectrum with redbook standard 16bit audio.
Young people today are 100% all about RIGHT NOW!! I have been a high school lacrosse coach for many years, as well as Jr High lacrosse and other youth sports. These kids have no desire to invest time and sit in their rooms like we did back in the 60s and 70s and spin records, that mentality does not exist, I hear/see it in these kids everyday almost.....Their phones are their music system along with Pandora and the like, that is their portable system too, plug into their car system and go...no fuss no muss. They have no desire to go to a record store and buy CDs let alone vinyl...Today it does not happen. As they get older, get big paying jobs, settle down and such, you might see some of them meander into vinyl, but most will stick with digital files.
For us that are 45+, the nostalgia thing is there, 100%.....For me I am past the nostalgia thing, I grew up with vinyl so the nostalgia feeling has since left many years ago. Many many people I chat with on several audio forums are in the same boat, nostalgia is gone, it's simply a matter of choice on how we listen to our music and we chose vinyl because it does sound better, 100% subjective but you can't convince me other wise...by now I have done waayyyyyy too much A/B demo'ing and it's clear who the "winner" is.
Now on this site, I will not argue because it is about the music, as long as all kids are listening to music regardless of what media, then I am good with it.....Music is the most important point.
And back to the OP, again I think there are several CDs that are better than any other media, as well as tons of vinyl that is better. It's a matter of finding out for yourself, if you want to invest the time, in today's world "time" is not something people want to invest much time in.
Slow down, sit down and listen to the music.
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Rando
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Joined: April 08 2006
Location: Bay Area
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Points: 472
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Posted: January 03 2016 at 21:10 |
Catcher10 wrote:
....For us that are 45+, the nostalgia thing is there, 100%.....For me I am past the nostalgia thing, I grew up with vinyl so the nostalgia feeling has since left many years ago. Many many people I chat with on several audio forums are in the same boat, nostalgia is gone, it's simply a matter of choice on how we listen to our music and we chose vinyl because it does sound better, 100% subjective but you can't convince me other wise...by now I have done waayyyyyy too much A/B demo'ing and it's clear who the "winner" is. ....And back to the OP, again I think there are several CDs that are better than any other media, as well as tons of vinyl that is better. It's a matter of finding out for yourself, if you want to invest the time, in today's world "time" is not something people want to invest much time in.
Slow down, sit down and listen to the music. |
True - I'm also in that age bracket and besides the differences between vinyl and CD's what I also miss is the vinyl album art. For me it was the joy and anticipation of unwrapping a brand new record, looking at it, admiring it, and perhaps even picture framing it, which was also very much of the listening experience - But so much for aesthetics and nostalgia - At the same time I do like the convenience and extras that come with re-releases and remastering on CD's - and with all the other media formats available today, generally speaking vinyl will always sound better. I know it becomes a subjective thing, but today we live in a sort of attention-deficit world who might not notice or care - I'm just happy vinyl is very much alive and well - I also wonder if 'Drive-in movie theaters' will ever make a comeback!
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- Music is Life, that's why our hearts have beats -
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
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Points: 16136
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Posted: January 05 2016 at 13:47 |
Hercules wrote:
moshkito wrote:
When I look back to almost 50 years, I'm glad that the LP's are gone.
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They are actually increasing sales faster than any other medium and pressing factories are being set up to cope with demand, actually! LPs are VERY much still here. |
I have to tell you that on a recent trip to Fry's, the LP's they were showing off to people, I wouldn't have bought today, and when I started my collection the music I bought was way better than the crap they were advertising on a very cheap and poor turntable ... to make sure Led Zep 2 sounded even worse! All in all, my concern is that the wrong stuff is being released and pushed by people that never understood or heard the fidelity in the music, enough to have any idea of what the differences were. The majority of those LP's in there, did not have one half the quality that MP3's on 256K would have. Over rated, and I will continue closing down my record library ... 1200 LP's to go, and I will only keep about 200 to 300 of them because they are too special for me for the cover or similar something or other.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Barbu
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Posted: January 05 2016 at 13:52 |
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Can't compare as I don't buy those insanely overpriced vinyls.
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Catcher10
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Location: Emerald City
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Posted: January 05 2016 at 14:37 |
moshkito wrote:
Hercules wrote:
moshkito wrote:
When I look back to almost 50 years, I'm glad that the LP's are gone.
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They are actually increasing sales faster than any other medium and pressing factories are being set up to cope with demand, actually! LPs are VERY much still here. |
I have to tell you that on a recent trip to Fry's, the LP's they were showing off to people, I wouldn't have bought today, and when I started my collection the music I bought was way better than the crap they were advertising on a very cheap and poor turntable ... to make sure Led Zep 2 sounded even worse! All in all, my concern is that the wrong stuff is being released and pushed by people that never understood or heard the fidelity in the music, enough to have any idea of what the differences were. The majority of those LP's in there, did not have one half the quality that MP3's on 256K would have. Over rated, and I will continue closing down my record library ... 1200 LP's to go, and I will only keep about 200 to 300 of them because they are too special for me for the cover or similar something or other. |
I would be interested in seeing an offering list on some of your 1,200 LPs. And I will pay you normal used record store pricing, as I buy to listen not resell or depending on grading would use Discogs pricing. If they are in bad shape you can keep them, not interested in ruining my stylus.
To my knowledge there are no mastering studios/pressing plants that accept recordings under 16bit, normally everything is at 24bit. So I can only guess if you thought the quality was that bad at mp3 at 256kbps it was the equipment they were playing it on.
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Catcher10
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Posted: January 05 2016 at 14:48 |
Barbu wrote:
Can't compare as I don't buy those insanely overpriced vinyls. |
Using various inflation calculators..... A price of US$8.99 in 1980-81 is worth today about US$25-25.50. I pay anywhere from $20-$30 for new vinyl......Seems very reasonable, considering the high demand of the past 5yrs for vinyl, and not "insanely overpriced". Unless your definition of "insanely overpriced" is $5.00.
VG+ used vinyl goes for about $5-$8 in used record stores......
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Barbu
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Joined: October 09 2005
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Posted: January 06 2016 at 08:42 |
^ no thanks, dude.  Vinyl : $47.66 CD : $12.88
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Meltdowner
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Posted: January 06 2016 at 08:50 |
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^ That one costs less than 28€ on vinyl here. I bought it on Blu-ray though.
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Catcher10
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Posted: January 06 2016 at 11:31 |
Barbu wrote:
^ no thanks, dude.
Vinyl : $47.66
CD : $12.88 |
I paid $23 for the vinyl on Amazon........Have never seen it for more than $30. Good for Steven Wilson though if he got some sales at $47.66.....Artists deserve to get paid as much as possible.
And for me honestly it is about sound quality, vinyl is better for me. I have HCE on CD, vinyl and 24bit hi-rez.....the CD sounds the worst with the other two almost tied. If I had a much better digital end system the 24bit should be better, but I have zero desire to spend that kind of cash on gear for a media that is still in need of improvements.
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Barbu
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Posted: January 06 2016 at 11:43 |
That's the price to pay to live in the ''plus meilleur pays du monde'', I suppose. Me, I call this Thievery! 
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Catcher10
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Posted: January 06 2016 at 12:03 |
Barbu wrote:
That's the price to pay to live in the ''plus meilleur pays du monde'', I suppose.
Me, I call this Thievery! |
I suppose.....Although in October my wife and I were on Med cruise and I stopped in a record store in Florence and prices were €25-€30, for new vinyl
We spent a week in Barcelona and I bought 5 records and paid €20-€30 and had them ship them to my home, good prices for vinyl I have not seen in the US.
Perspective.......It's all good!! 
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moshkito
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Posted: January 06 2016 at 12:45 |
Hi, it's hard to not think that one can become cynical on this ... but my whole idea/point, still is ... the music is about the person and that person's soul ... and be it recorded on vinyl or digital ... should not make a difference, as the person will still shine ... in either process. I shudder to think that something like Layla, would not have been "found" by Tom Dowd (see his DVD), in the middle of all those tapes and examples and things done ... and take away someone's incredibly good ear for seeing, finding and making sure it gets remembered ... in music. We should not be thinking about that. What made music great, was not this or that ... it was the music itself, thus I tend to be a bit ... on the "other side" and dismiss the LP/CD/Digital discussion 99 out of 100 times. I can still feel and live and thrive listening to 21st Century Schizoid Man ... and SW's version is not any better or changes my inner feelings a single iota! And neither does the LP. And I have always believed that what I tuned in was the feeling behind the music itself and not ideas ... that have nothing to do with it all in the end. And yeah, this part can be subjective and difficult to discuss.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Barbu
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Posted: January 06 2016 at 13:13 |
Yeah!!!! Rock, let's rock! The time has come to forget all the bullsh*t and rock! 
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Prog albums - CD vs. vinyl
