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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2016 at 09:31
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I think its an album that clearly marked the end of that band in that grouping. The last half of the album is mythological gibberish and both Peter Gabriel and Genesis were better off as separate entities at that point.
 
And by the time they do a song that it is rock'n'roll, you already know that no one wanted to do anything else for the album! Or the band in its current state at the time!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2016 at 09:56
1- I don't feel it drags on after The Lamia. Most people will tell you that the part where the album gets a bit boring comes between Lilywhite Lilith and The Lamia (The Waiting Room, Anyway, Here Comes the Supernatural Anaesthetist). I love every second of the Lamb, though.

2-It's the best record they've ever made

3-Read 2...and btw, I think Nursery Cryme is better than Foxtrot.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2016 at 10:19
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

The Lamb sort of lost this moments of beauty, and became too song and lyric oriented...
The Lamb', even with all its shortcomings, is chock full of moments of beauty! And stating that it "became too song and lyric oriented" is puzzling - isn't prog generally this in the first place (unless it's instrumental)?

Edited by Rednight - February 04 2016 at 10:21
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2016 at 10:41
I just read Mike Rutherford's memoir about a month ago, and of course he talked about this album. While the band were hard at work on the music, PG was going through deeply personal/family issues at the time, and was seriously behind on the lyrics. I can see that affecting his output. Might be worth checking the book out of the library sometime.

I own everything but the archives and some of the live albums. Generally i favour Trick ->. 

One thing i was always read is the band was like 'half a million in debt', i wonder where the turning point to even was..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2016 at 12:20
I love The Lamb and consider it one of the great prog concept achievements of all time along with Topographic Oceans, Passion Play & Brick.  That said, I've always had a couple minor criticisms on the album: sound quality and as the OP mentioned, the "drag" factor.  

First, the sound quality has always been a little thin and flat to my ears...not nearly as lush and full as the other studio Genesis albums that lead up to it (Nursery->Foxtrot->Selling).  Almost like they used a different studio, made some specific sonic decisions to create a different overall sound or had a new engineer or something.  Second, I totally hear you about the drag factor, but I only feel it on a couple pieces after "The Lamia".  "Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats" feels like filler that could be cut down from 3 minutes down to 1/2 a minute.  Also, it would be more effective as a fade out to "The Lamia" rather than a separate piece.  They get right back on track with "The Colony of Slippermen" which is my fave track on the whole album, but then "The Light Dies Down..." totally feels like a desperate attempt to take up some time both musically and lyrically and conceptually attempt to tie in the end of the album with the beginning just from the title.  I think they could have dropped that song altogether and it would have made a much stronger flow to the end.

For me criticizing The Lamb is kind of like complaining about a luxury cruise to Alaska, "I wish I had seen 15 whales instead of 14, caught 10 salmon instead of 9, and the fresh all you can eat crab meat cocktail bar could have had a platter so I didn't have to get up so often to refill my plate" Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2016 at 12:31
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

I love The Lamb and consider it one of the great prog concept achievements of all time along with Topographic Oceans, Passion Play & Brick.  That said, I've always had a couple minor criticisms on the album: sound quality and as the OP mentioned, the "drag" factor.  

First, the sound quality has always been a little thin and flat to my ears...not nearly as lush and full as the other studio Genesis albums that lead up to it (Nursery->Foxtrot->Selling).  Almost like they used a different studio, made some specific sonic decisions to create a different overall sound or had a new engineer or something.  Second, I totally hear you about the drag factor, but I only feel it on a couple pieces after "The Lamia".  "Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats" feels like filler that could be cut down from 3 minutes down to 1/2 a minute.  Also, it would be more effective as a fade out to "The Lamia" rather than a separate piece.  They get right back on track with "The Colony of Slippermen" which is my fave track on the whole album, but then "The Light Dies Down..." totally feels like a desperate attempt to take up some time both musically and lyrically and conceptually attempt to tie in the end of the album with the beginning just from the title.  I think they could have dropped that song altogether and it would have made a much stronger flow to the end.

For me criticizing The Lamb is kind of like complaining about a luxury cruise to Alaska, "I wish I had seen 15 whales instead of 14, caught 10 salmon instead of 9, and the fresh all you can eat crab meat cocktail bar could have had a platter so I didn't have to get up so often to refill my plate" Wink

Fantastic post, and you definitely had me laughing at the end there LOL Clap

Everyone's responses have been great. Thank you for this discussion! It's nice checking in every few hours and seeing people posting.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2016 at 12:59
Originally posted by Blinkyjoh Blinkyjoh wrote:

I just read Mike Rutherford's memoir about a month ago, and of course he talked about this album. While the band were hard at work on the music, PG was going through deeply personal/family issues at the time, and was seriously behind on the lyrics. I can see that affecting his output. Might be worth checking the book out of the library sometime.

I own everything but the archives and some of the live albums. Generally i favour Trick ->. 

One thing i was always read is the band was like 'half a million in debt', i wonder where the turning point to even was..


They broke even with Trick apparently, and it sold much better than The Lamb.

I do love the Lamb, but I agree Trick is better (probably my fave Genesis album) There are parts of the Lamb which are certainly among their best work but side 4 lets it down IMO
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2016 at 13:31
I still don't understand why LLDOB rates so highly with people. But this is a good thing - it gives me a reason to listen to it again!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2016 at 16:10
Originally posted by hieronymous hieronymous wrote:

TLLDOB is one of my least favorites - I am probably in the minority here, but I just don't like the songs, and as someone else mentioned, too many vocals! I could go on, but instead I will say that Live is probably my favorite - that's the one I heard first, the sounds of the instruments and the energy of the performances top the originals for me. For studio albums, SEBTP, then Foxtrot.

OK, I'll go on a little bit about TLLDOB - the story is just too vague and ridiculous for me. I suppose it is very psychological and dreamlike, but I just find it annoying. And Peter Gabriel as half-Puerto Rican is a bit much.
I am right there with you on this opinion.  There are some decent songs on the album, but as a whole the concept basically makes no sense to me and explanations that I have been given don't make the concept any better.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2016 at 22:13
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

The Lamb is my favorite album of all time. If I were forced to identify a weak side, I would pick side 2, and even that's not very weak. I think the final song, It, could have had more punch and more crunch in order to bring the album to a more dynamic climax. There are plenty of instrumental interludes on the Lamb, so I don't understand that criticism. Supernatural Anesthetist is my favorite instrumental part (I'm a Hackett fan). Most of the instrumental interludes are actually on side 4 too. I like Gabriel's voice. Comparisons have been made with yes, but Jon Anderson's voice is as annoying to me as Gabriel's to Dellinger. A lot of Yes music I like until a vocal intrudes. I'm surprised, though, the Lamb seemed more popular in my high school than it does on PA. How 'bout that?


Originally posted by Rednight Rednight wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

The Lamb sort of lost this moments of beauty, and became too song and lyric oriented...
The Lamb', even with all its shortcomings, is chock full of moments of beauty! And stating that it "became too song and lyric oriented" is puzzling - isn't prog generally this in the first place (unless it's instrumental)?


Well, I don't know if I didn't explain myself correctly... besides, I may not remember some of this instrumental interludes if they didn't interest me and haven't listened to the whole album in a while. However, I said song oriented meaning shorter mostly lyrics based songs, instead of longer songs with instrumental sections. And the album may have it's good share of instrumental interludes (stand alone tracks if I remember correctly?), but then again, that would be part of the problem... I would like those instrumental interludes to have been worked as parts of the main songs (it's sort of the same problem I have with The Wall... even though I like that album much more). But in the end, whether it's got instrumental interludes, and shorter songs... and some longer songs too... the main problem is that I don't like the songs as much as "Musical Box", "Supper's Ready", "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight", "Firth of Fifth", and "Cinema Show"... there's just no song that I enjoy nearly as much as those ones.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2016 at 03:52
I've had the following lines stuck in my head for the last three days:

"Rael imperial aerosol kid; exits into daylight, spraygun hid..."

"Groucho with his movies trailing, stands alone, his punclhine failing"

"Smiling at the Majorette, smoking Winston cigarettes"

"As I cuddled the porcupine, he said I had none to blame but me"

"No time for romantic escape when your fluffy heart is ready for rape; no!"

"Erogenous zones, I question you. Without you what would a poor boy do? Without you mankind handkinds through the blue"

"Here come the supernatural anesthetist; if he wants you to snuff it, all he has to do is puff it (he's such a fine dancer!)"
"A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2016 at 06:29
I respect the artistic decision a lot to make a big concept album like this that uses musical forms somewhat different from the long intricate compositions that the band did before. For me this is not so much a matter of comparing Lamb to SEBTP, Trespass etc. and wondering what I like more. I think it's a good thing if a band tries out new forms of expression, and I'm fine with the band being ambitious as they were here. Certainly, as an attitude, this appeals more to me than doing "another one of the same kind". It was the same with The Wall.

That said, I'm not terribly interested in lyrics and stories when it comes to music. I'm fine with the lyrics and the story here but I don't bother much, and this means that I don't find myself listening to the whole of the album much. I love Carpet Crawlers, Fly on a Windshield, In the Cage, Lamia, and I don't have all too strong complaints about anything else; but overall, as much as I respect them for doing this and think that overall this is something very good (that I'd appreciate as a critic), it doesn't rank very highly on my personal list.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2016 at 08:38
PrognosticMind, give The Colony of Slippermen a few more spins. This section is awesome:

He places the number into a tube,
It`s a yellow plastic "shoobedoobe".
It says: "Though your fingers may tickle
You`ll be safe in our pickle."
Suddenly, black cloud come down from the sky.
It`s a supersized black bird that sure can fly...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2016 at 09:02
Originally posted by Upbeat Tango Monday Upbeat Tango Monday wrote:

PrognosticMind, give The Colony of Slippermen a few more spins. This section is awesome:

He places the number into a tube,
It`s a yellow plastic "shoobedoobe".
It says: "Though your fingers may tickle
You`ll be safe in our pickle."
Suddenly, black cloud come down from the sky.
It`s a supersized black bird that sure can fly...

I've grown much more fond of that track in the last two days. I enjoy that particular passage Tongue.

Back in N.Y.C. might have one of the catchiest choruses ever.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2016 at 10:21
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

The Lamb is my favorite album of all time. If I were forced to identify a weak side, I would pick side 2, and even that's not very weak. I think the final song, It, could have had more punch and more crunch in order to bring the album to a more dynamic climax. There are plenty of instrumental interludes on the Lamb, so I don't understand that criticism. Supernatural Anesthetist is my favorite instrumental part (I'm a Hackett fan). Most of the instrumental interludes are actually on side 4 too. I like Gabriel's voice. Comparisons have been made with yes, but Jon Anderson's voice is as annoying to me as Gabriel's to Dellinger. A lot of Yes music I like until a vocal intrudes. I'm surprised, though, the Lamb seemed more popular in my high school than it does on PA. How 'bout that?


Originally posted by Rednight Rednight wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

The Lamb sort of lost this moments of beauty, and became too song and lyric oriented...
The Lamb', even with all its shortcomings, is chock full of moments of beauty! And stating that it "became too song and lyric oriented" is puzzling - isn't prog generally this in the first place (unless it's instrumental)?


Well, I don't know if I didn't explain myself correctly... besides, I may not remember some of this instrumental interludes if they didn't interest me and haven't listened to the whole album in a while. However, I said song oriented meaning shorter mostly lyrics based songs, instead of longer songs with instrumental sections. And the album may have it's good share of instrumental interludes (stand alone tracks if I remember correctly?), but then again, that would be part of the problem... I would like those instrumental interludes to have been worked as parts of the main songs (it's sort of the same problem I have with The Wall... even though I like that album much more). But in the end, whether it's got instrumental interludes, and shorter songs... and some longer songs too... the main problem is that I don't like the songs as much as "Musical Box", "Supper's Ready", "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight", "Firth of Fifth", and "Cinema Show"... there's just no song that I enjoy nearly as much as those ones.
Yes, the songs mentioned at the end there are of a heady lot to be compared to. And 'Lamb' may have offered a new side of Genesis that took some getting used to.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2016 at 10:39
"Looking behind me the water turns icy blue...the lights are dimmed and once again the stage is set for you" Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2016 at 11:49
I love TLLDOB but I can hear what you mean about Side 4, but only when compared to the rest of the album. I'm a fan of Gabriel's vocals so the abundance of singing doesn't both me. However, I feel like "Hairless Heart" is one of the best instrumentals of all time. The whole record is fantastic but if I'm not in the mood for the whole thing, my go-to tracks are "Cuckoo Cocoon", "Hairless Heart", "Counting Out Time", "The Carpet Crawlers", "Lilywhite Lilith" (amazing backing vocals from Collins!), "Anyway", and "The Lamia". 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2016 at 12:27
Originally posted by CharonKnight CharonKnight wrote:

I love TLLDOB but I can hear what you mean about Side 4, but only when compared to the rest of the album. I'm a fan of Gabriel's vocals so the abundance of singing doesn't both me. However, I feel like "Hairless Heart" is one of the best instrumentals of all time. The whole record is fantastic but if I'm not in the mood for the whole thing, my go-to tracks are "Cuckoo Cocoon", "Hairless Heart", "Counting Out Time", "The Carpet Crawlers", "Lilywhite Lilith" (amazing backing vocals from Collins!), "Anyway", and "The Lamia". 

Hairless Heart is excellent. Lilywhite Lillith is super catchy and reminds me of a 70's hippy ballad. The Grand Parade of Lifeless Packaging is beyond catchy; that might be the catchiest rhythm on the whole record.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2016 at 15:19
The boys were stewing in the studio while Gabriel was tied up with family and film soundtracks.  The result was hours and hours of tape of Genesis jams.  I've never owned the LP version, just the double CD.  The first disc is outstanding - not a duff moment, but disc 2 drags in the middle if you're not in the mood for Banks.  I do love the last track.....it's only knock and noll but I like it!
I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2016 at 16:04
Originally posted by Intruder Intruder wrote:


The boys were stewing in the studio while Gabriel was tied up with family and film soundtracks. 
Film soundtracks? That's the first time I've ever read that. Which films were they, pray tell. All I know is that he left the recording sessions of The Lamb' for an extended time to meet with that director of The French Connection to come up with some ideas for a possible film collaboration, and that suitably miffed the others.

Edited by Rednight - February 05 2016 at 16:06
"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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