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HackettFan View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2016 at 20:10
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

The Lamb is my favorite album of all time. If I were forced to identify a weak side, I would pick side 2, and even that's not very weak. I think the final song, It, could have had more punch and more crunch in order to bring the album to a more dynamic climax. There are plenty of instrumental interludes on the Lamb, so I don't understand that criticism. Supernatural Anesthetist is my favorite instrumental part (I'm a Hackett fan). Most of the instrumental interludes are actually on side 4 too. I like Gabriel's voice. Comparisons have been made with yes, but Jon Anderson's voice is as annoying to me as Gabriel's to Dellinger. A lot of Yes music I like until a vocal intrudes. I'm surprised, though, the Lamb seemed more popular in my high school than it does on PA. How 'bout that?


Originally posted by Rednight Rednight wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

The Lamb sort of lost this moments of beauty, and became too song and lyric oriented...
The Lamb', even with all its shortcomings, is chock full of moments of beauty! And stating that it "became too song and lyric oriented" is puzzling - isn't prog generally this in the first place (unless it's instrumental)?


Well, I don't know if I didn't explain myself correctly... besides, I may not remember some of this instrumental interludes if they didn't interest me and haven't listened to the whole album in a while. However, I said song oriented meaning shorter mostly lyrics based songs, instead of longer songs with instrumental sections. And the album may have it's good share of instrumental interludes (stand alone tracks if I remember correctly?), but then again, that would be part of the problem... I would like those instrumental interludes to have been worked as parts of the main songs (it's sort of the same problem I have with The Wall... even though I like that album much more). But in the end, whether it's got instrumental interludes, and shorter songs... and some longer songs too... the main problem is that I don't like the songs as much as "Musical Box", "Supper's Ready", "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight", "Firth of Fifth", and "Cinema Show"... there's just no song that I enjoy nearly as much as those ones.
Yes, it might be more song oriented, though Genesis has always been so. A lot of those longer epics were always balanced out by Harlequin, Time Table, I Know What I Like, and others. What I like about the Lamb is that it creates continuity not just between sections within songs perhaps in different keys and such, but it creates a sense of movement and continuity that transcends songs. The dynamic contrasts that were once only relevant to one song now applied across songs. The Lamb, for instance, goes beyond well beyond something like Supper's Ready, which has nothing to do with anything on side 1 of Foxtrot. That's how I see/hear the Lamb.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2016 at 03:42
I too recall reading about Gabriel sort disappearing during TLLDOB sessions to meet with the French film producer, which eventually lead to his departure in (I believe) August '75.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2016 at 05:20
When I was doing SPACE PIRATE RADIO in Santa Barbara, Genesis offered to do the touring show of Lamb to
our most active promoter and perform it at UCSB for very inexpensive.  He turned it down because Fleetwood Mac were playing the County Bowl the same weekend (not the same night) and felt concert goers wouldn't spend the money.  *sigh*
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2016 at 07:00
Originally posted by Guy Guden Guy Guden wrote:

When I was doing SPACE PIRATE RADIO in Santa Barbara, Genesis offered to do the touring show of Lamb to
our most active promoter and perform it at UCSB for very inexpensive.  He turned it down because Fleetwood Mac were playing the County Bowl the same weekend (not the same night) and felt concert goers wouldn't spend the money.  *sigh*

Pardon my English, but that person is an idiot! Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2016 at 23:15
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

The Lamb is my favorite album of all time. If I were forced to identify a weak side, I would pick side 2, and even that's not very weak. I think the final song, It, could have had more punch and more crunch in order to bring the album to a more dynamic climax. There are plenty of instrumental interludes on the Lamb, so I don't understand that criticism. Supernatural Anesthetist is my favorite instrumental part (I'm a Hackett fan). Most of the instrumental interludes are actually on side 4 too. I like Gabriel's voice. Comparisons have been made with yes, but Jon Anderson's voice is as annoying to me as Gabriel's to Dellinger. A lot of Yes music I like until a vocal intrudes. I'm surprised, though, the Lamb seemed more popular in my high school than it does on PA. How 'bout that?


Originally posted by Rednight Rednight wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

The Lamb sort of lost this moments of beauty, and became too song and lyric oriented...
The Lamb', even with all its shortcomings, is chock full of moments of beauty! And stating that it "became too song and lyric oriented" is puzzling - isn't prog generally this in the first place (unless it's instrumental)?


Well, I don't know if I didn't explain myself correctly... besides, I may not remember some of this instrumental interludes if they didn't interest me and haven't listened to the whole album in a while. However, I said song oriented meaning shorter mostly lyrics based songs, instead of longer songs with instrumental sections. And the album may have it's good share of instrumental interludes (stand alone tracks if I remember correctly?), but then again, that would be part of the problem... I would like those instrumental interludes to have been worked as parts of the main songs (it's sort of the same problem I have with The Wall... even though I like that album much more). But in the end, whether it's got instrumental interludes, and shorter songs... and some longer songs too... the main problem is that I don't like the songs as much as "Musical Box", "Supper's Ready", "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight", "Firth of Fifth", and "Cinema Show"... there's just no song that I enjoy nearly as much as those ones.
Yes, it might be more song oriented, though Genesis has always been so. A lot of those longer epics were always balanced out by Harlequin, Time Table, I Know What I Like, and others. What I like about the Lamb is that it creates continuity not just between sections within songs perhaps in different keys and such, but it creates a sense of movement and continuity that transcends songs. The dynamic contrasts that were once only relevant to one song now applied across songs. The Lamb, for instance, goes beyond well beyond something like Supper's Ready, which has nothing to do with anything on side 1 of Foxtrot. That's how I see/hear the Lamb.


Yeah, perhaps those longer songs were balanced by shorter ones... but the ones I liked better were the longer ones (not all of them, though, and still I do like some of the shorter songs too... only not as much as the ones I mentioned earlier). And the album may create continuity between songs and whatever, but if I don't really like the songs so much, nor the narrative between them, then the album is just lost to me. Not to say there is nothing that I enjoy from The Lamb... there are a few songs I do enjoy very much... just, once again, not as much as the ones I mentioned earlier.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2016 at 05:18
The Lamb is my favourite Genesis album. I see and hear it as fullbodied piece of work that would lose something magical if it was to lose just one second of it's playing time. The pause in the Waiting Room is just as important to the overall scope of this album as In the Cage's thundering climax. You need darkness in order to appreciate light and vice versa.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2016 at 07:51
FWIW I do think some of Lamb is dispensable but I could hardly care less.  One of the most evocative, atmospheric and creepy albums Genesis have done.   Right from the opening notes of the title track...just completely unlike anything they had done before or ever since.  The Eno effect?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2016 at 16:29
Great replies as always, guys!

I might sound crazy, but I think Phil did a great job with lead vocals on Lamb tracks live in 1976/1977 and onward.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2016 at 21:47
Originally posted by PrognosticMind PrognosticMind wrote:

Great replies as always, guys!

I might sound crazy, but I think Phil did a great job with lead vocals on Lamb tracks live in 1976/1977 and onward.


I actually like Phil as a singer better than Gabriel. And mostly I like it better how he sings Gabriel songs... however, for other reasons I often end up liking the original versions better (or live versions still with Gabriel - which I also usually like Gabriel singing live better than on studio).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2016 at 15:53
Originally posted by PrognosticMind PrognosticMind wrote:

Great replies as always, guys!

I might sound crazy, but I think Phil did a great job with lead vocals on Lamb tracks live in 1976/1977 and onward.
Crazy's got nothing to do with it. "You are correct, Sir!" -Ed McMahon

Edited by Rednight - February 08 2016 at 15:54
"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2016 at 16:03
Originally posted by PrognosticMind PrognosticMind wrote:

I too recall reading about Gabriel sort disappearing during TLLDOB sessions to meet with the French film producer, which eventually lead to his departure in (I believe) August '75.

"As I cuddle the porcupine, he said I had none to blame but me..."
The only thing French about the guy was in the title of his most famous film - The French Connection. It was William Friedkin, an American director.

Edited by Rednight - February 08 2016 at 16:04
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2016 at 16:11
foxtrot is more complete album I think the only instrumental track is horizons ever body seems to be on a more united front, to make a proper album or at least what I feel is proper like dark side of the moon compared to the wall my thoughts only
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2016 at 16:36
Originally posted by grantman grantman wrote:


foxtrot is more complete album I think the only instrumental track is horizons ever body seems to be on a more united front, to make a proper album or at least what I feel is proper like dark side of the moon compared to the wall my thoughts only
What do you mean by "complete"?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2016 at 06:17
Originally posted by Rednight Rednight wrote:

Originally posted by PrognosticMind PrognosticMind wrote:

I too recall reading about Gabriel sort disappearing during TLLDOB sessions to meet with the French film producer, which eventually lead to his departure in (I believe) August '75.

"As I cuddle the porcupine, he said I had none to blame but me..."
The only thing French about the guy was in the title of his most famous film - The French Connection. It was William Friedkin, an American director.

I was unaware of this. Thank you for sharing.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2016 at 15:22
My point of entry with prog Genesis was Trick of the Tail.  I loved it right away, and that led me to getting every studio album they had ever done.  

A few years back, I did some "spring cleaning" of my music library, and when Genesis came up, not all of them survived.  Everything after Wind and Wuthering didn't make the cut (except for the song "Keep it Dark", which I inexplicably love).  Same with "From Genesis to Revelation" - gone.  Of all the albums that remained, Lamb is the least best of the lot.

Not unlike Tales from Topographic Oceans, or Brain Salad Surgery, I find it pretentious, and the story takes away from the music.  I've kept Lamb because I'm waiting for it to hit me one day.  Like one day, I'll put it on, and find it as amazing as so many others on this site who sing its praises.  It's been nearly a decade, and it hasn't happened yet.  It does have its moments, though they are few and far between for me.

If I'm picking a favorite Genesis album, though, it's Trespass.  "Looking for Someone" is my all time favorite Genesis song, and I love how raw the album is.  It's got a ton of character.

BTW have any of you heard this cover of "Back in NYC" by Tin Spirits?  It's pretty great.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2016 at 17:33
I like the Tin Spirits version! They are a (relatively) local band (Swindon) and have seen them do it live (along with a few wisely chosen covers such as 'Red' in amongst their own material..)

Regarding the Lamb; my own view of it is very much coloured by my own personal circumstances when I first heard it and therefore still has a very strong emotional effect on me. Musically I feel it has more quirks and twists (most work in my view but a few don't)than SEBTP mostly built out of the 'jamming' way that much of it was constructed (much by Rutherford/Banks/ Collins whilst PG was absent or writing lyrics) but its the deep sense of expressing a wide range of emotions in a very eccentric, english and intense way which can still reduce me to tears.. even seeing the Musical box version twice I was surprised to find myself still very moved and transported. I do feel that the emotional energy of the lyrics and 'pilgrims progress' theme was mostly born out of the emotional rawness and exhaustion of PG's Personal situation and relationship with the rest of the band. Although this is a 'flawed' diamond in many respects, its actually remarkable that the whole band managed to create as coherent an album as they did..

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2016 at 20:12
Originally posted by PrognosticMind PrognosticMind wrote:

Great replies as always, guys!

I might sound crazy, but I think Phil did a great job with lead vocals on Lamb tracks live in 1976/1977 and onward.


I agree, and in fact it occurs to me that of the two or three TLLDOB tracks that I like, two of them (the title track and Slippermen) are on Seconds Out.

I wonder if or how often people tend to prefer what they first heard of a band? Certainly, if it grabbed your attention then I would expect that it is going to hold a special place in your feelings for that band.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2016 at 21:16
tittlelob is giving me an itchycock.  It's a great album.  If you keep picking at it, it won't heal...

Go ahead and type in or cut and paste in the whole album name fer crying out loud otherwise your postings tend to get tiresome towards the end. heheheheh



Edited by Slartibartfast - February 09 2016 at 21:21
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2016 at 21:32
The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway was my first exposure to Genesis. Our local FM rock radio station in Dallas played the entire album uninterrupted one night shortly after its release in November 1974. I was intrigued by the music at the time. After a relatively small amount of airplay over the next couple of months, it disappeared from the radio. I heard nothing more about this new (to me) group until August 1975 when it was announced that Peter Gabriel had left the group. I remember the DJ saying "Well, looks like that's the end of Genesis". I was more than a bit pissed to hear it since I had just learned of them and then they were gone. Disapprove Fortunately for me, they still had a few really good albums left in them before they morphed into 80s pop stars. The Lamb got me interested in Genesis; A Trick of the Tail made me a fan.


Edited by SquonkHunter - February 12 2016 at 22:12
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2016 at 23:30

The Lamb may not be my favorite of Genesis but I’ve always had a soft spot for it.  While it didn’t introduce me to prog (that honor would go to the Moodies, Procol H. and early ELPs, largely via my brothers’ collections) it was my introduction to the band.  I was lucky to live in an area with at least three good FM stations, and top 40 radio had, with few exceptions, become so gagworthy that I was more than ready for a change.  It was the beginning of my Age of Discovery, and I don’t care how corny it sounds: it was literally a whole different world I’d found my way to, most notably (to my ears) for the great prog releases of that year: Hero and Heroine, Mysterious Traveller, The Power and the Glory, Hamburger Concerto, Eldorado, Relayer, Hall of the Mountain Grill, Kansas (1st), Down to Earth, Turn of the Cards, Mirage, WarChild, Free Spirit, Red, Country Life, The World Became the World, Todd Rundgren’s Utopia, Illusions on a Double Dimple, Crime of the Century, Sheet Music…


And of course the Lamb.  The first time I heard the title track it all clicked.  I’d literally heard nothing like it: the shimmering keyboards, the vocal mannerisms, the propulsive drum fills.  I quickly discovered Nursery Cryme, Foxtrot and Selling England afterward, but the Lamb will always occupy a special place for me, as the album that served as my gateway to the greater world of prog.

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