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Dean 
Special Collaborator 
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
 Posted: June 24 2016 at 02:52 |
 I initially suspected that Pat meant that any heavy blunt object can be a weapon, but as those are not illegal as such then I'm now curious as to what he means.
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What?
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Online Points: 64350 |
Posted: June 24 2016 at 03:33 |
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I imagine he means having grown up inner-city he was coming across any number of knives, shivs, blackjacks, brass knucks, and guns in various degrees of disrepair. The fact is anything could be used as a weapon, as fellows like 007 are so fond of demonstrating. Toothbrushes at ten paces, anyone?
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: June 24 2016 at 04:09 |
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It was a sincere question by the way, I honestly don't know how one would go about obtaining these types of weapons if made illegal. So I don't know if a "crackdown" on markets is very realistic. I never once have heard about that idea though. If one wants to ban certain weapons, might as well make an attempt to patrol for them, otherwise why bother? Unlike Pat who grew up in a rough part of Philly, I was from the middle-upper middle class suburbs where one never even needed a gun. In fact to further my point about economic well being being a factor, things like break ins were very rare in the few blocks around me, violent crime nearly unheard of. In the years after the recession there was a pretty big increase in break ins, 2 of the houses neighboring us were hit, as well as some stabbings, shootings, once even a hostage taken at our mall by gunpoint that resulted in the person having to be killed by police. So yeah, there ya go. As for finding them in sewers, man that's some crazy sh*t. All I know is clearly there's a way.
So then, stringent background/metal health checks really would go a way if indeed there's not really this thriving black market for guns. Of course crime will still happen. Day to day crime doesn't need to involve automatic weapons, that still needs to be addressed with better economic policies.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: June 24 2016 at 08:22 |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: June 24 2016 at 08:31 |
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By the way, on occasion I have surfed the dark web and I can tell you even there I've seen guns being sold...
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15783 |
Posted: June 24 2016 at 08:37 |
I'm sorry, but I don't know what you're trying to tell me. |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15783 |
Posted: June 24 2016 at 08:39 |
I meant firearms. Though all knives and some blunt objects are also illegal in Philly |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15783 |
Posted: June 24 2016 at 08:46 |
You can try to crackdown on illegal firearm sales. From the pictures people paint it seems like these types of markets don't exist in other countries. But I'm always skeptical about just importing the conclusion into the US. Inner cities and border states have it weaved into their cultures. You can try to weed that out, but the scope of our drug/drug enforcement problem I think makes it hard to have any tangible progress in that direction. Illegal arms are needed as part of the drug game. Do European countries who have successfully curtailed their gun ownership have similar issues with drugs? |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15783 |
Posted: June 24 2016 at 09:31 |
You might enjoy this run down. |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: June 25 2016 at 02:27 |
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BTW I was talking to my girlfriend today, who has spent time in and knows the UK well, and I asked her how hard is it own a gun there, can just anyone as long as they go through some process and she said it's very hard and "that's why there's so many stabbings" and other things there. That supposedly there's a good amount of crime, sometimes involving broken bottles/glass and ya know...instead of guns guess if sh*t is gunna break out they just find others to beat each other.
Just found that interesting. Anyway yeah dark web doesn't surprise me, I actually figured that was the way people did. Least younger/more savvy ones. So in a true moment of brilliance Donald Trump praised Scotland on their vote to "take their country back" and attempting to twist it into some victory for his own campaign. Scotland of course voted largely to stay in the EU
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: June 25 2016 at 03:18 |
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I saw jokes about how the "brexit" will embolden Texas to leave the US, seems people are smarter (maybe they were serious) than they realize!
 I remember last time Texas passed some for fun vote to leave the US, Austin passed it's own measure to leave Texas...and thus remain in the US. Sad part is, given the state of politics today I am not even sure if I should remember all this humorously or as a prediction
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: June 25 2016 at 03:35 |
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What?
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TeleStrat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2014 Location: Norwalk, CA Status: Offline Points: 9319 |
Posted: June 25 2016 at 11:37 |
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Guns purchased at gun shows are not illegal if you live in certain states. Thirty three states allow legal guns to be purchased at gun shows without filling out the background check paperwork. Only licensed (FFL) sellers are required to use the forms, private sellers (and there are a lot of them) are not.
At gun shows in my area (two or three a year) paperwork is required because California is one of the seven states that require background checks on all purchases. From articles I've read plainclothes agents regularly go to gun shows but are looking for guns and ammo that are specifically banned. As I have stated in another thread I am opposed to the "gun show loophole" but since I live in California there is already a law against this. Whether or not this law is always enforced is another story.
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 12681 |
Posted: June 25 2016 at 12:17 |
But, as you so clearly pointed out in your post, it is the hodgepodge of state laws that is the culprit for much illegal maneuvering and under-the-table purchases. One can't really have a gun-free zone or a ban on assault weapons in one state, when one can simply drive next-door to make a purchase. I certainly don't want the 2nd Amendment infringed upon; however, a comprehensive Federal law should abrogate the lunatic patchwork of state laws with federal registration and an FBI background check standard (that includes checking for mental health issues and no-fly status) for each and every gun purchase. You can't buy or sell a car without registration and insurance, and you can be put in jail or fined if you drive without a license, on a suspended license or without insurance. Cars can kill, but aren't designed for that, guns do kill, are designed for it and should be regulated with the same vigor.
Edited by The Dark Elf - June 25 2016 at 12:19 |
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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TeleStrat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2014 Location: Norwalk, CA Status: Offline Points: 9319 |
Posted: June 25 2016 at 12:39 |
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I agree with you completely. I fully support gun laws that prevent firearms from ending up in the wrong hands. I would like to see every state have the gun laws that California has but I guess that can only happen at the federal level.
California has two questions regarding mental illness on the background check form. They also have a question regarding domestic abuse. If we can do it why can't everyone do it?
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 12681 |
Posted: June 25 2016 at 12:51 |
I'll give you three reasons: 1) The NRA. 2) Politicians supported by the NRA. 3) Please reread the first two if in doubt.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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TeleStrat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2014 Location: Norwalk, CA Status: Offline Points: 9319 |
Posted: June 25 2016 at 13:06 |
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You're right about that at the federal level so for now it will have to be state by state.
For example. California has passed a law requiring manufacturers to use microstamping on firing pins which would "mark" shell casings retrieved at crime scenes. Each company would have a different mark so that the police could at least determine what type of gun was used even if an actual bullet was not retrieved. So far seven other states are considering this. The California law has been passed but has not been implemented because of opposition. I think it will eventually be put in place.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: June 25 2016 at 13:13 |
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Ah yes the gun show loophole, I forgot about that load of nonsense. Because going to a gun show means rules can be randomly discarded
 that's deff something the Dems should work on. Checks should be universal and nowhere exempt
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 12681 |
Posted: June 25 2016 at 13:17 |
That, and in many states you can privately sell a handgun to an ex-con cousin or a crackhead down the street for $50 bucks, and because its a private sale it doesn't have to be registered.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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LearsFool
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 09 2014 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 8618 |
Posted: June 27 2016 at 17:58 |
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The Supreme Court gets stuff done: abortion restrictions in Texas are declared undue burdens and so unconstitutional, and people convicted for domestic violence can be restricted from owning firearms.
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American Politics the 2016 edition
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