American Politics the 2016 edition

Equality 7-2521 wrote: micky wrote: interesting...  I read the Republican social problems differently.. thus the fatal gunshot wound leading to being supplanted.  Who makes up the base, the core of the Republican Party. Economic conservative?  hardly..  foreign hawks? hardly... it is the very group that would try to keep a straight face and vote for Trump (even though he flies in the face of everything that religious conservatives say is important to them) than vote for a Democrat. The basic problem they have is that in order to move left.. they have to cut lose ..a substantial part of their core support. The cultural right and remnants of the Religious Right.  They have ZERO place in the Democratic Party.  There is no place for them... yet as i noted earlier.. there are still Replicans out there that still subscribe to all that less taxes, small government and pro-business.  You have two very different camps under one tent.  Not really. They just have to wait for a lot of those people to die. And in any case, it's hard to predict how parties absorb voters and form alliances. 50 years ago the South was die hard democrat. And the point is that there becomes room. The notion that parties actually stand for anything is terms of principles is wrong. It plays out like this often because they have core voter bases that are fairly inelastic, but the parties are just clamoring for voters. micky wrote: anyhow Pat... you don't see the more 'moderate' (fiscal and foreign) aspects of the Republcian Party finding a home with the Libertarians... accepting a more liberal society ideology for a home in a still evolving party that they could easly evolve into one more to their tastes...one that is not shackled with the albatross of being embarrassing and completely out of touch with America today (" no matter who much I believe in limited government.. I can not vote for a party of racists and bigots').. not to mention the basic ideals in which this country was based upon. Sure it could happen but i lean no. The moderate part is one thing. A moderate libertarian and moderate republican are further off on FP and economic policy than the same for a republican and democrat. The democratic nominee for president is a Bush republican's wet dream for foreign policy. Dems seem like a nice home for most republicans.  Also, I don't buy that idea that donald trump is any more racist or bigoted than the slew of other candidates from both parties. Additionally I think that anyone who isn't voting for trump because of disgusting comments he's made shouldn't be voting in the first place.

Edited by JJLehto - October 20 2016 at 08:19

Wake me up when it is over.

timothy leary wrote: Wake me up when it is over.

Better not boss

A Person wrote: but it's not bad when America does it apparently.

This is American foreign policy. HRC talks tough about the oppressive Putin regime while the US commits war crimes in Yemen with the decisions antecedent to this being made by her state department.

Equality 7-2521 wrote: micky wrote: interesting...  I read the Republican social problems differently.. thus the fatal gunshot wound leading to being supplanted.  Who makes up the base, the core of the Republican Party. Economic conservative?  hardly..  foreign hawks? hardly... it is the very group that would try to keep a straight face and vote for Trump (even though he flies in the face of everything that religious conservatives say is important to them) than vote for a Democrat. The basic problem they have is that in order to move left.. they have to cut lose ..a substantial part of their core support. The cultural right and remnants of the Religious Right.  They have ZERO place in the Democratic Party.  There is no place for them... yet as i noted earlier.. there are still Replicans out there that still subscribe to all that less taxes, small government and pro-business.  You have two very different camps under one tent.  Not really. They just have to wait for a lot of those people to die. And in any case, it's hard to predict how parties absorb voters and form alliances. 50 years ago the South was die hard democrat. And the point is that there becomes room. The notion that parties actually stand for anything is terms of principles is wrong. It plays out like this often because they have core voter bases that are fairly inelastic, but the parties are just clamoring for voters. micky wrote: anyhow Pat... you don't see the more 'moderate' (fiscal and foreign) aspects of the Republcian Party finding a home with the Libertarians... accepting a more liberal society ideology for a home in a still evolving party that they could easly evolve into one more to their tastes...one that is not shackled with the albatross of being embarrassing and completely out of touch with America today (" no matter who much I believe in limited government.. I can not vote for a party of racists and bigots').. not to mention the basic ideals in which this country was based upon. Sure it could happen but i lean no. The moderate part is one thing. A moderate libertarian and moderate republican are further off on FP and economic policy than the same for a republican and democrat. The democratic nominee for president is a Bush republican's wet dream for foreign policy. Dems seem like a nice home for most republicans.  Also, I don't buy that idea that donald trump is any more racist or bigoted than the slew of other candidates from both parties. Additionally I think that anyone who isn't voting for trump because of disgusting comments he's made shouldn't be voting in the first place.

thanks for the thoughts.. especially on the differences between Libertarian and Republican ideologies...I had thought they might be more akin economically but then again... it is not really an area I've fully educated myself on.. economics to be is the Genesis of the political world to me.. it puts me to sleep...thus the questions

as far as Trump....  no...I don't think he is either.  Thus is the rub...  the electorate he is pandering to.. IS and they compromise about 25% of the electorate... thus a high percentage of the Republican Party.

Trump will disappear.. they will not... so what becomes of them... and the Party... that is where historical examples fail.  You have had Parties out of lockstep with the prevailing winds of the times..and they evolved... never before have you had such a disconnect between the moderate Party establishment and its very un-moderate ..call them extreme.. I do...  core base. That is the civil war in the party that has NO historical precedence... who will win that... do you really think Christian Fundies and bigots, racists and the white supremacists will move LEFT.  No... I don't... The Republican Party has known they have to move left and evolve to remain viable in a changing America.. problem is.... their base.. does NOT. Do you think Fox, Talk Radio, and Breitbart .. their one stop sources for news in a biased against them world.. would actually tell them they have lost the culture war and need to move left and get with the times. HAH!  OF course not... thus this split may not right itself for many years.. and by the time they do... it simply might be too late.



Edited by micky - October 22 2016 at 08:30

something really interesting to look at...  early voting this year is expected to perhaps hit 40% of all votes cast nationwide this year. Makes you wonder about exit polling and having states be called to one candidate or the other. I'll be curious to see how quickly they are tabulated and included in states vote totals..

Especially interesting is going  back to Georgia..  they were well above the national average in 2012 (nearly 48%0.. perhaps this year well more than half of the votes there are going to be cast prior to election day.

Really cool.. still would like to see it be a national holiday (day off) but in lieu of that. Good to see early voting take hold as it has nationwide.


Edited by micky - October 22 2016 at 14:28

Numbers do look good. 5-12 points ahead, and she's had a nice breakthrough with white millennials.

^ It is gratifying to see the motivation and will to GOTV on the dem side.   When I was a kid you couldn't hit an excited progressive registered voter with a dead raccoon.

Atavachron wrote: ^ It is gratifying to see the motivation and will to GOTV on the dem side.   When I was a kid you couldn't hit an excited progressive registered voter with a dead raccoon.

^ Just as I've been predicting. Also helps McMullin that Johnson is now tanking in the polls nationwide.