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Face to Face with Rick Wakeman -- Ian Anderson

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moshkito View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 23 2016 at 14:26

Hi,

Ian Anderson's comments on Face to Face with Rick Wakeman, which is a magnificent interview, btw!

There is a part in that nice interview that is scary ... for me. When Ian Anderson states that pretty much everything and anything that can be done with the medium of rock music has been done in the 40 or 50 years of its time ... it sends a strong message to you and I.

Basically, the medium, is over, and the ability to do anything new is getting to be nearly impossible, and I can see this, specially in a commercial sense of the music ... it now becomes this and that, and tomorrow, yet another half nude body and what not.

But, this is also likely to be a way of saying that the design of rock music, and its history, let's say the classic 4 folks - guitar, drums, bass and keys - is over and that combination needs to change and stop altogether until folks learn something new to change and help develop the next 50 years in music history.

In looking at music history, one can see how something like this might have been an issue ... somewhere along the way, in Bach's time, someone must have said that any music with a harpsichord was now redundant and boring. Now comes Mozart, and after so many violin concertos, and pieces of music that showed more cleverness than ability, it was also thought that a lot of that "chamber music" thing was over. And now comes the orchestral music ... and by the time we get to Beethoven and Tchaikovsky, we have to have more violins and strings ... orchestras double in size! And 100 years later, composers have already gotten the most out of that combination they could ... and the new breed arrived. 50 years later, it was not enough and electricity gave us the "new music" with jazz and rock. And of course, in the late 60's, this all exploded into a commercial definition that blew out into something else ... everyone and every kitchen sink, was an artist!

Needless to say, this changes the ideas and the specs of music and its history, if Ian is right about his assessment ... and he has already been right about one of them, at least ... when the cover of "A Passion Play" kinda suggests that classical music and arts are over ... and of course replaced by rock/jazz as we knew it at the time, and 40 years later ... are totally bored with! THE NEXT PICTURE/COVER, of course,  IS A MELTING MARSHALL STACK?

This brings out ... something I have been listening to recently ... 200 Motels - The Suites ... and it is an astounding piece of music, that Frank Zappa could only relate to his folks and musicians with the context he did, because most of them did not even understand, or care about a lot of modern music and Varese and others ... and this double CD, shows what is likely to be Frank's greatest composition ever ... in its totality, but sadly, it will not be appreciated as much because so many folks only think of Frank as a rock icon, and not a composer of serious music. If you are not convinced by the end of this CD, you are not listening.

And hearing a chorale and others go through the lines, and sing them, you get the feeling that this Chorale is doing is as a way to make fun of all the music they had done before that was "serious" and was not half as good as this stuff they are having a great time with! Maybe the words are important after all!

in many ways, it is a hugely BOLD comment by Ian, but historically, it is accurate because every 40 to 50 years things change to something else as the older stuff becomes either "golden" and "historical", and the rest dies ... as nothing. From a commercial standpoint, this makes sense, since the top ten thing has always been about copy/copy/copy and not talent or originality. And maybe, it is for us, to open up the ears and minds to that thought in order to see/learn some new things about ourselves and its derivatives in any art forms. This is, for me, one of the reasons why I find it so weird that musicians are so afraid to try experimental and other exercises to improve their rehearsal techniques, which might give a better clue into some new musics and designs for the future.



Edited by moshkito - February 24 2016 at 10:22
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you will, eventually, find your own art inside! Try it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omphaloskepsis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2016 at 07:18
Oh, I agree.  200 Motels is incredible and scary.  An album that manipulates your emotions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2016 at 13:21
Face to face with Rick Wakeman?  I know the feeling....


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 29 2016 at 12:50
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


But, this is also likely to be a way of saying that the design of rock music, and its history, let's say the classic 4 folks - guitar, drums, bass and keys - is over and that combination needs to change and stop altogether until folks learn something new to change and help develop the next 50 years in music history.

In looking at music history, one can see how something like this might have been an issue ... somewhere along the way, in Bach's time, someone must have said that any music with a harpsichord was now redundant and boring. Now comes Mozart, and after so many violin concertos, and pieces of music that showed more cleverness than ability, it was also thought that a lot of that "chamber music" thing was over. And now comes the orchestral music ... and by the time we get to Beethoven and Tchaikovsky, we have to have more violins and strings ... orchestras double in size! And 100 years later, composers have already gotten the most out of that combination they could ... and the new breed arrived. 50 years later, it was not enough and electricity gave us the "new music" with jazz and rock. And of course, in the late 60's, this all exploded into a commercial definition that blew out into something else ... everyone and every kitchen sink, was an artist!


Except that string quartets and chamber music never died out; people compose them to this day, and not just in old fashioned ways. People also still do solo piano and solo guitar, so how on earth could everything interesting for a far more complex combination such as drums/bass/guitar/keyboards have been written already?

I think that certain compositional styles and habits may die out, but lots and lots of material must be written so that instruments or combinations of them could be considered "over", probably too much for humankind.

I think that craving for something new and revolutionary all the time is pretty much a thing of the present. Take any half-decent keyboard that came out in the 1980s, say, that nobody would want to use these days anymore; I think there are still millions of opportunities in them that nobody has explored.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 29 2016 at 23:00
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

...

I think that certain compositional styles and habits may die out, but lots and lots of material must be written so that instruments or combinations of them could be considered "over", probably too much for humankind. 

I think that craving for something new and revolutionary all the time is pretty much a thing of the present. Take any half-decent keyboard that came out in the 1980s, say, that nobody would want to use these days anymore; I think there are still millions of opportunities in them that nobody has explored.

Agreed.

Recording, and the ability of people to hear and find out about different music's is something that is rather new for the general public ... there was no media per se, and the majority of the arts did not really begin to circumnavigate the glove until the 1900's came around, and these things went nuts as soon as radio started and then later all the other media that helped bring it about.

Yes, many of these things still are done today, and have been done for a long time, however, they are not some of the best known and appreciated things today ... you and I still love listening to Bach and Vivaldi and Handel, but some listeners of progressive music will fall asleep bored senseless (hopefully not!).

I don't think that rock'n'roll is over, otherwise I would immediately ask Ian ... now what? What you gonna do? Write a flute concerto? 

It was an interesting comment ... however, I am not sure it is as valid as he thinks, though he might be right in the end, if things continue repeating as they are these days. I'm waiting for his next album cover with the Melting Marshal Stack so he can prophecy the fall of rock music!

Wink

Confused

Beer

... none of the hits, none of the time ... you will, eventually, find your own art inside! Try it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2016 at 20:14
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

There is a part in that nice interview that is scary ... for me. When Ian Anderson states that pretty much everything and anything that can be done with the medium of rock music has been done in the 40 or 50 years of its time ... it sends a strong message to you and I.


Not quite sure where Ian is coming from...seems even he doesn't agree with himself LOL




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2016 at 08:33
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Not quite sure where Ian is coming from...seems even he doesn't agree with himself LOL






I think he does it on purpose to create conversation when he is bored. I am not sure that he was bored with Rick, but I think that he started thinking that this conversation was not going anywhere except into more discussions about the hits and pop music!

Something like that!

Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GreatBeyonder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2016 at 04:08
I seriously doubt music has run its course. It's just waiting for the next Miles Davis to come along and upset the cart. If you could predict or imagine what genius looked like, then it would hardly be genius.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smurph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2016 at 11:13
I think the time for genius to be accepted by a wide audience is completely over. The next Miles Davis will have to work a day job.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DDPascalDD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2016 at 14:45
I like thinking about music and its future, but after much of thinking I came to one conclusion: predicting what's gonna happen to music is extremely hard!

On the one hand, music does get a lot of attention these days. How many people give attention every day to paintings, architecture, drama. Almost everyone listens at least some music before falling asleep again.

On the other hand, people don't give sh*t about the form of a song, if a song is built around nice chords, just any complexity won't really be even noticed by the majority. (Btw IMO it's fairly understandable)

Therefore, the average listener doesn't need innovation. Electronic music has already taken over a lot of hearts (dance, house, that lind of cr4p), where sound matters more than compositional quality, and less and less parts are actually played.

It seems though, as if this doesn't hold up for too long. It's not popular for a very long time but many prefer music played by the 4 folks as described. Only I can't say what will gain popularity. I can say that only a small group of people really would like to hear something new.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2016 at 14:49
Originally posted by Smurph Smurph wrote:

I think the time for genius to be accepted by a wide audience is completely over. The next Miles Davis will have to work a day job.

It will be specially difficult with the internet being a critic like they are, and trashing the material left and right. I work on the basis of not writing or saying much about stuff I do not quite care for a whole lot, but the only moments I dare beyond that line is to make fun of some groups ... love to tease Metallica for example, and many other bands, but I do not even dislike some of their music!

The hope is that any new band, or artist, can develop his/her own identity strong enough so they know what they want and need to do early enough, to not have to rely on the comments, here, there and everywhere else, in order to do their own creativity thing. 

It scares me, though, that one thinks that J. K. is the "writer", and so is Stephen ... and no one else can write anything, and what's worse, everyone here, there and everywhere, will immediately say something uncouth and poor about the work itself, specially when it is new and does not kiss up to the standards that top ten and hits do.

So, yeah, in some ways, what Ian says is true ... because anything new will not be what we know, and will have a different name ... one just hopes that it won't be ... poohpooh ... or some other crudity.
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you will, eventually, find your own art inside! Try it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiamondDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2016 at 14:49
It's almost true what Ian says, Rock/contemporary music is particularly going through a phase where it's stretching sideways, absorbing the past rather than moving forward; yet there is still that small niche for the invention of a genius that opens the doors to a whole new world. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DDPascalDD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2016 at 14:59
There is indeed that small chance...
You should first become the most popular dj, and then suddenly demand all attention of your new track which is something completely new.

But who has the ability of both?

Edited by DDPascalDD - March 28 2016 at 15:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dinesha4n Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2016 at 02:33
then how could we have to face the interview with yours without scary?? you may have an funny questions
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2016 at 02:40
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Face to face with Rick Wakeman?  I know the feeling....


I could've done this with Peter Hammill but iPods weren't around then and buggered if I was gonna lug a camera around with me ........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote npjnpj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2016 at 22:13
Sounds to me as if he's saying: Well, I haven't got any new ideas, so no one else is going to have any either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2016 at 10:09
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

Sounds to me as if he's saying: Well, I haven't got any new ideas, so no one else is going to have any either.

I almost agree with this ... mostly it really is saying that he no longer knows how to use his voice or his flute to augment the music he wants to make ... and he is transposing that to something else.
... none of the hits, none of the time ... you will, eventually, find your own art inside! Try it!
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