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twalsh 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: August 26 2014 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 328 |
 Topic: Stairway to Heaven Copyright TrialPosted: April 12 2016 at 14:45 |
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http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/la-et-ms-led-zeppelin-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-trial-20160412-story.html
What do you think? I admit that I had not heard of Spirit before. |
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More heavy prog, please!
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ClemofNazareth
Special Collaborator 
Prog Folk Researcher Joined: August 17 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4659 |
Posted: April 12 2016 at 15:25 |
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Old news. Randy California himself talked about the similarities more than twenty years ago and suggested Plant/Page may have ripped him off, but it wasn't until 2014 that family attorney Michael Skidmore decided to sue.
One thing about this case that's interesting to me is that there was a claim many years ago by Hollenbeck Music that they owned the rights to "Taurus" because Spirit was under contract to them in 1967. Skidmore claims the contract wasn't valid but that even if it was, Hollenbeck forfeited their right to sue now because they didn't defend the copyright for more than 40 years. But neither did Randy California's family, even though the accusations of infringement have been around for at least 30 years. Skidmore claims nobody sued before now because Randy's mother didn't have enough money for a lawyer, but given Led Zeppelin settled numerous other copyright infringement and plagiarism lawsuits going as far back as the early 70s, I'm not sure a judge will buy that argument since anyone with a shred of sense would have been able to find a lawyer who would have taken the case on contingency. |
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"Peace is the only battle worth waging."
Albert Camus |
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17497 |
Posted: April 12 2016 at 18:41 |
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Old news yes...but it made CNN front page, so it will come up as "new" again....
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Intruder
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 13 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2086 |
Posted: April 13 2016 at 08:28 |
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Loved the Zep rehashed blues but the accusations of plagiarism have hounded Jimmy Page since he started throwing those riffs around on Zep I. Can't believe Mrs. California didn't have the cash to afford a lawyer.....both her son and her husband were in a pretty healthy selling band. There must have been some dosh somewhere in the vaults.
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I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2720 |
Posted: April 13 2016 at 10:17 |
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Two thoughts spring to mind:
- When is "It's a beautiful Day" going to sue Deep Purple for copying "Bombay Calling" with "Child in Time"? - Having been forced to listen to a bit of radio today: When is everyone going to start suing everyone else? |
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ClemofNazareth
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Researcher Joined: August 17 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4659 |
Posted: April 13 2016 at 15:31 |
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If nothing else at least the spirit of Spirit gets some free publicity, which I'm sure will result in a few album sales ...
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"Peace is the only battle worth waging."
Albert Camus |
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chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 19943 |
Posted: April 14 2016 at 03:55 |
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Yes the opening descending guitar pattern is very similar and immediately recognisable as being such, however the rest of the song isn't. I suspect if you sued on that basis there would be a lot of other court cases.
Edited by chopper - April 14 2016 at 03:55 |
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20468 |
Posted: April 14 2016 at 13:27 |
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It's a load of nonsense and it's probably being done because Spirit or their agents need the money....and btw I'm a fan of Spirit.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 64351 |
Posted: April 14 2016 at 20:55 |
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Let's face it; Zep made more money than anyone in their time, even the Stones and Floyd. A lot more. Page & Plant's coffers are ripe for the picking.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Intruder
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 13 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2086 |
Posted: April 15 2016 at 09:53 |
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"Ripe for the picking"? Their coffers are so loaded 'cause they copped so many tunes from so many folks. Their coffers SHOULD be ripe for picking. Even now, Plant is open about his raiding the songbooks of early folk, bluegrass, jazz and blues bands. If they're so open about it, then maybe they should give a little back. If Zep made a millions on Stairway, shouldn't Spirit at least be given credit for giving Pagey that amazing song intro?
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I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20468 |
Posted: April 15 2016 at 12:51 |
California, Cassidy, and Locke are all dead.....I guess that means Ferguson and Andes (or the record company) will get all the money? California wrote the song according to the album credits.  |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 19943 |
Posted: April 16 2016 at 02:10 |
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Copied this over from the Page vs Blackmore thread -
Edited by chopper - April 16 2016 at 02:11 |
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20468 |
Posted: April 17 2016 at 14:59 |
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I heard that the judge ruled in favor of Spirit.....has anyone else heard this already...?
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 12683 |
Posted: April 17 2016 at 16:15 |
The judge agreed that the trial should move forward. There is no decision. I've been discussing this elsewhere, and I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread (in which case, excuse my laziness), but Stairway and Taurus both were stolen from the Irish bard Carolan. We're talking 16th century here, folks. Here is a slower version: And a faster one: |
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20468 |
Posted: April 17 2016 at 16:25 |
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^You are right.....so why is it moving forward when it's in the public domain as an old trad song..?
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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AZF
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 17 2012 Location: Wirral Status: Offline Points: 1079 |
Posted: April 17 2016 at 16:30 |
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Hopefully if successful, then Curved Air can have a word with Travelling Wilbury's over the Desiree/Handle With Care mash up!
And I think that case will be stronger. |
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 12683 |
Posted: April 17 2016 at 16:31 |
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I'm still waiting for Bach to rise up from his grave and sue Steve Hackett for not crediting him for "Horizons". Direct theft, that one.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 12683 |
Posted: April 17 2016 at 16:33 |
Ummm...because judges are usually piss-poor musicians? They say justice is blind, but it may be tone-deaf as well.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 64351 |
Posted: April 17 2016 at 19:12 |
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Aside from the fact that 'Carolan's Dream' sounds almost nothing like Stairway: not in melody, chord progression, tempo & cadence, arrangement or any other way, this just shows how ignorant the "Zeppelin were thieves" position is. It indicates a deep misunderstanding of not only the way music works, but reveals how easy it is to adopt an idea that seems right but actually doesn't hold much water.
Everyone stole continuously: stole, poached, pilfered, purloined, copied, and my favorite, "borrowed", especially in the incestuous Art and Folk scenes in mid-20th cent Britain. In Zeppelin's case, they were a bit more egregious about credit and a bit too successful to go unnoticed, but no more outrageous in their coveting of all music in order to enhance their own. |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 12683 |
Posted: April 17 2016 at 20:40 |
I'll have to disagree with your assessment, particularly in the melody line. You can literally sing the lyrics right along with the harp in parts. It is reminiscent, not a copy, just as Taurus is reminiscent of Stairway. Of course the treatments and tempo vary among the compositions, songwriters have sued other songwriters who simply sped up or slowed down the original chord progressions. Tom Petty sued and won for this: Hell, treatments vary in the same tune, hence I offered a fast and slow variation of the Carolan tune.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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Stairway to Heaven Copyright Trial
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dr wu23 wrote: