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Topic ClosedIf they were to be released today

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Poll Question: which album would have more sucess (if any would)?
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7 [24.14%]
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Hemis View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: If they were to be released today
    Posted: June 01 2016 at 05:13
Pay attention to how music is seen nowadays. Back in their time all have sucess, but which one would be more successful if they were all released today? Discuss my friends, discuss :)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2016 at 05:26
Nevermind and InCotCK are examples of albums that appeared at the right time and place, filling a void if I may say so.
When MoP was released, Metallica were already pretty known and respected, so actually maybe Kill'em All should be mentioned instead. It was a groundbreaking effort back in 1983.




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2016 at 05:30
I was to choose Ride the Lightning, but Master of Puppets is known by more people, due to the song with the same name. But do you think any of them would be successful today?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2016 at 05:37
Originally posted by Hemis Hemis wrote:

I was to choose Ride the Lightning, but Master of Puppets is known by more people, due to the song with the same name. But do you think any of them would be successful today?


without the success of early Metallica, there would not be a thrash genre in the first place I think.
I think the Burton era albums would be successful if released nowadays.

Nirvana's Nevermind was the tool to get rid of the whole hair metal (which was "milked" to death) and mainstream labels found a new sound to provide them money (milked to death as well LOL). So I don't know if Nirvana would be as successful today as they were in 1991-1992. They were huge back then (I was in highschool then, I remember LOL).

As far as KC is concerned, I honestly don't know what to say.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2016 at 05:56
I too don't know about KC. The album would be either an obscured gem or a album with 4,30 or more here on PA, but not as outstanding and important as it is.

I don't think Nirvana would achieve that much of a success. There are good songs there in Nevermind but it really came out at the right time, as you said. 

About Metallica, I think it would become one album amongst the millions of metal records. Not so special.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2016 at 06:01
Originally posted by Hemis Hemis wrote:


About Metallica, I think it would become one album amongst the millions of metal records. Not so special.

the thing is, if thrash metal were a new genre on the 2010s let's say, it would be as successful as it was back then IMO.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2016 at 06:03
In regards to the current trends in popular music / Rock music nowadays, Metallica's MoP would have more success, but a marginal success:
 - Nirvana's Nevermind is now too abrasive for alternative/punk music since Green Day seems to have become the most well known example of punk-rock band (safe for the Sex Pistols, of course). On the other band, Nirvana's music is also too "light" and not enough heavy for a generation used to the "Nu Metal" sound of Korn, Slipknot, etc...
 - King Crimson's ItCoCK would be seen as a novelty act or, at least, a trendy band, but trendy only among a few so-called connoisseurs - not to say "diggers" and/or hispters.

So, MoP would be more successful, due to the huge audience gathering towards the various subgenres of metal, but the scene being already full of technical/progressive metal band, it would be, as I already wrote it, a marginal success.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2016 at 08:24
Nevermind is the album out of those three which sounds most like the music of today. Both in terms of composition, but also in terms of production values. It´s especially on the latter parameter the other two sound a bit dated today (although it´s certainly not an issue to my ears).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2016 at 11:10

Master of Puppets because it is my least favorite of the three and I don't like today's popular music at all.

The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2016 at 11:53
I'd go in the order you have them. Nirvana just over Metellica way over KC.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2016 at 18:24
Nevermind.
A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2016 at 20:25
I comment on Metallica or Nirvana as metal and grunge aren't specialty areas of mine, and hence I won't vote, but I have put quite a bit of thought into how King Crimson's debut would be perceived if it was released today, June 1st, 2016.

In short, it would be a complete flop outside of prog circles.

Let's consider two different alternate timelines. In the first, King Crimson had never existed (and thus any bands who now consider King Crimson as a prominent influence would no longer have those influences) but the rest of the music careers of everyone involved in the band continued as normal. In this reality, ITCOTCK was obviously not released back in 1969, and instead the performers and writers from the original album have now decided to record and release it today as the debut album by brand new band King Crimson. By some fluke, although all the members are at least 60 or so, let's suppose that all of the performances and production quality have been captured exactly as we know the album today. 

In this first alternate timeline, the album is a complete flop commercially. It would initially gain quite a bit of interest from prog and classic rock fans for Greg Lake's involvement, although it would be controversial given that the guy from Foreigner is on it, too. Prog fans would end up pleasantly surprised by his performances, pop fans very weirded out. The biggest complaint about the album, though, would be its production quality, which sounds incredibly dated by today's standards. After all, we're talking about the original version here, not any fancy Steven Wilson remixes. In all, it might get around 3.68 on PA for "a decent, largely symphonic release, with a retro feel and an almost excessive use of mellotrons". The lyrics might be considered cheesy and people still wouldn't get "Moonchild". So ultimately, a flop.

The second alternate timeline to consider would be to suppose that all of King Crimson's career had occurred as we know it, and that they achieved the same level of success, but without having released ITCOTCK. Instead, they decide to release it today, with the same assumptions being made about performances and sound quality as we know them begin preserved in this timeline. There would be one big change, though; it would have completely different cover artwork. Barry Godber, painter of the original iconic cover, died in 1970 and would not be able to paint the cover today. Unless Peter Sinfield, a friend of his, had kept it for himself back in the 60's, hung onto it for over 45 years and then convinced the rest of the band to use it as cover art, Court would have a cover more in the style of the other modern KC releases (e.g. Power To Believe, Scarcity of Miracles). Due to its more subtle, less distinct style, the album probably wouldn't garner much attention outside of the current King Crimson fan base.

What would people think of it once they buy it? Again, people would pan it for the poor production quality. This time it would fare even worse, however; it would probably have an average PA score of about 2.74. A sample review: "Here Fripp and co. show that they really have gone senile. A definite nail in the coffin of classic prog and further proof that the older generation of prog "musicians" should have retired long ago. Robert Fripp finds himself joined by more or less the same lineup as he had back when the band first formed back in the day and what they brewed up this time is nothing more than an obvious nostalgia-milking cash grab. Not only does the production sound AWFUL for 2016, but really guys? 45 years later and you decide to name an album after the band, but slightly different? Real original. And worst of all, the album is a complete carbon copy of their brilliant 1970 debut, In The Wake of Poseidon! 21st Century Schizoid Man is a laughably cheesy re-write of Pictures of A City, only with less dynamic range. I Talk To The Wind is a dull, tedious copy of Cadence and Cascade (a particular favourite of mine) but the flute soloing, which is decent, I suppose, goes on for far too long. And don't even get me started on Epitaph..." Ultimately the album would be an even bigger flop if stacked up against the earlier King Crimson releases. And people still wouldn't get "Moonchild". 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2016 at 09:37
We'd have to know how music today would be different without these. If we just take the one album in question away and leave everything else as it is, I don't think ITCOTKC would get much attention. But assuming that without it much that is now prog wouldn't have happened and it'd still be something innovative, who knows?
(I just realised that the posting before discusses this in much more depth, but still.)

Anyway, Nirvana is the safe bet. Doesn't sound a bit dated.


Edited by Lewian - June 02 2016 at 09:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2016 at 10:03
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

We'd have to know how music today would be different without these. If we just take the one album in question away and leave everything else as it is, I don't think ITCOTKC would get much attention. But assuming that without it much that is now prog wouldn't have happened and it'd still be something innovative, who knows?

Imagining a parallel universe without these 3 albums is an interesting question.
OMG they neither know Nevermind, MoP nor ITCOTKC? How should be their music?

However, the real question is:

Do we ourselves already live in a parallel universe in which milestone albums haven't been released yet? For humans living in a parallel world travelling to visit our Earth, maybe they're wondering the same question, with other references we don't know or can't ever imagine...


Edited by Modrigue - June 02 2016 at 10:36
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2016 at 11:52
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2016 at 20:46
Originally posted by Modrigue Modrigue wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

We'd have to know how music today would be different without these. If we just take the one album in question away and leave everything else as it is, I don't think ITCOTKC would get much attention. But assuming that without it much that is now prog wouldn't have happened and it'd still be something innovative, who knows?

Imagining a parallel universe without these 3 albums is an interesting question.
OMG they neither know Nevermind, MoP nor ITCOTKC? How should be their music?

However, the real question is:

Do we ourselves already live in a parallel universe in which milestone albums haven't been released yet? For humans living in a parallel world travelling to visit our Earth, maybe they're wondering the same question, with other references we don't know or can't ever imagine...

Yeah, in the real world King Crimson released In the Wake of Poseidon in 1964 and our world is for finding out whether people realise how original it is if it's put out after Court...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2016 at 05:37
Originally posted by Modrigue Modrigue wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

We'd have to know how music today would be different without these. If we just take the one album in question away and leave everything else as it is, I don't think ITCOTKC would get much attention. But assuming that without it much that is now prog wouldn't have happened and it'd still be something innovative, who knows?

Imagining a parallel universe without these 3 albums is an interesting question.
OMG they neither know Nevermind, MoP nor ITCOTKC? How should be their music?



No Nevermind? The Pixies sell millions of copies of Trompe le Monde (but they still split a couple of years after), while Pearl Jam, Alice In Chains or Soundgarden see their popularity growing on a slower rhythm.

No MoP? Slayer reigns supreme, and all metal bands try to overcome Megadeth's Peace Sells... Main consequence: thrash-metal becomes ultra technical nonsensical w**kery 15 years before Behold the Arctopus (just try to imagine Cannibal Corpse hiring the guys of Cynic or Nile releasing its first album in 1993).

No ITCOTKC? Progressive rock happens noneless, but follows the models of Pink Floyd and Soft Machine - unless VdGG triumphs over these two bands.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 06 2016 at 13:04
"Master of Puppets" is 80´s "Secret Treaties", said someone. Makes sense.

KING CRIMSON is the most interesting thing here, by light years. 
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