Song reviews of bands we don't like

After one listen of each track, I think we're on the same page. On more subdued tracks such as these, Hammill takes it down a notch and doesn't overwhelm.  Very listenable, and the bass in particular is great. 

Oh, sorry, and a Genesis song for you:

Or say another band yourself if you want.

Oh I forgot the last Radiohead ! I didn't expect such a powerful sleeping drug. 

Oh it's brutal ! I'm going to fall asleep all of a sudden  

hellogoodbye wrote: I'd love to love Pink Floyd, but every time I listen to them, I fall asleep.  Same with TD.

I still listen to Kid A & Amnesiac with a great pleasure. But Moon ... I got lost in Nigel Godrich's fog.

I'm still trying to figure out your response, as we do still seem to be talking at cross-purposes.   A lot of what you are saying just doesn't seem to address my intentions at all (but then I'm running off on tangents myself, which is my wont). Would be great to have another voice to bring a level of synthesis or clarity to this particular discussion. It's an interesting philosophical discussion, but I'm trying to fugue out exactly where our ideas are at odds with each-other (I guess it has more to do do with the way we go about it).

Sorry snipping:

Moshkito wrote: This is about the art and its form, and I tend to consider that "sacred". Thus, I am not going to say that your child's painting is not Picasso (of course it's not!), but to go around telling that child that an artist you are not, when you never know how the kid will grow up ... is where I draw the line!

I would not do that, and I'm not sure where you're getting that. Tastes are subjective and I would never say someone is not an artist just because it doesn't appeal to me. In fact, I wouldn't say it at all unless I know that someone had never attempted any kind of art yet claimed to be an artist. I have criticised people who claimed to be experts or knowledgeable about something that they were clearly ignorant about (corrected the assumptions)-- I have never thought that all opinions are equal, informed opinions are worth more. And I don't like it when someone claims that something is bad just because they don't like it (subjectivity vs. objectivity). By saying that I don't care for something is not a judgement on the objective worth of a band, merely its personal worth to me. There's a big difference, but this really is a digression....

I wasn't making excuses, I was trying my best to explain my intent with this topic in my response to you, which was intended to be a positive exercise in re-evaluating our notions of bands and hopefully finding music that we do like from bands that had so far not appealed to our tastes. I discovered more for me to like about Spock's Beard (found music I really do appreciate), but I didn't think that the band was bad or needed improvement (that was not the issue). Yes, they could make changes to appeal more to my tastes, but why would or should they? They have many fans, and are making the music they and many people want them too. Why would I criticize them for that? And the kind of person who would think that someone should stop making music just because it doesn't appeal to their tastes thinks in a very alien way to me. I am a big supporter of freedom of artistic expression even when I may be offended by some of it (in some cases I haven't supported it which sometimes put me at odds with the Civil Liberties association as I felt that it was too harmful). Even freedom of speech, which is such an essential part of a free society and democracy, practically must have its limits.

It goes without saying that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and it's fine to have different tastes. What we like is subjective, but I know that perceptions can shift. Incidentally, the topic title is poor, instead of "Song reviews of bands we don't like", it would have been better expressed as "Reviews of songs by bands that we don't currently appreciate". This would imply better that it may be that we simply haven't delved enough into the music yet or simply have not acquired the taste yet, but want recommendations to maybe find music that we will appreciate (it shows an openness). And when I usually say that I don't like something, I usually try to give reasons why, which is a way of opening myself up to discussion as I am interested and hearing what others have to say, maybe re-evaluating my thoughts, finding a new perspective and insights, and discovering that there's more to something than I thought. It's also a very sociable way to engage people in discussion. I don't say "this sucks, end of story".

For me there is almost always something to like when you dig deep enough, look at it in a certain way, or just look in the right places. No one has trashed anything in this thread or said anything about musicians not having the right to make the kind of music that they want to (no artist needs to please everybody and I think that those who try to are almost certainly bound to fail -- I can respect and appreciate an artist's vision or product without necessarily enjoying it). Those who don't have thick enough skins to take criticism probably won't find success. Not only will it affect their motivation, but they are less likely to be open to learning and self-appraisal (I think some change their vision too much because of others desires, but there's a balance needed in our life's journey).

I'm actually not comfortable formally critiquing music as I haven't an academic background in it (I did do film studies, though, sadly, I didn't get to major in it).

There is nothing here that I would criticize my daughter and son for saying, as I try to teach them to think critically and keep an open mind. Question everything, I say, though my wife rather hates that I tell them that since it would be so much easier if they would follow us more. Sometimes I tell them that ultimately they have to accept certain things as requirements. I'm not religious, but I've loved this: "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

I tell my children that it's fine not to like something, but not to confuse subjectivity with objectivity (understand issues of taste). I do tell them that they should be polite and thoughtful when talking to people and bringing up criticisms (think about how they react to it and think about what they are trying to say). I rather wish I could pass my kids on to you for a couple days, maybe from you they would find some new perspectives (I wouldn't, because I don't really know you, nor do you know me).

I am critical of what my children produce, but in a constructive way to help them improve, as I would have with my students (but that analogy doesn't really work as I'm not trying to help the musicians to improve, unlike my children). Sometimes musicians, and others, have asked me for advice, and I've been overly critical. I tried to hard to think of things that I thought could be maybe improved -- and then realized how stupid and wrong I was later on. Sometimes in those cases I listened with the wrong ears as I tried to listen too critically which ended up being more about my ego than encouraging and helping others -- it seemed good intentions to me at the time, but the wrong approach. It's like that proverb, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

I wish I could find a balance of honesty and piety in writing and in discussion, but I long gave up on the dream of writing professionally (though I do edit other people's writing for a living, which is funny cause I ramble when I write here). I'm not as direct as I often would like to be because I do always fear offending people (part of having a level of social anxiety I suppose).

Anyway, this may be my last post in this thread. I am pleased with the people who have taken part in the exercise.

Edited by Logan - July 11 2016 at 13:36

hellogoodbye wrote:

hellogoodbye wrote: A last word or few. A poem, unfortunately untranslatable in English. I'm a writer too.  COPIER Erre l'artiste dans le potager, Cherche beauté, endives Warhol Passe en revue les magazines, S'arrête au seuil, critique, Lève les yeux au ciel, s'isole, Se croit à l'abri, dégringole. Il est couché là, à ses pieds, Le tableau qu'il vient d'achever, Cerné de feuilles, comme encadré, Ombre athlétique de sa pensée. Se pourrait-il que j'ai copié, rien inventé ? Le même bleu devant, derrière mes yeux ? Etrange ressemblance, semblant d'étrangeté. Est-ce un faux air, suis-je faussaire ? Où suis-je sampleur comme toi, Ne me le reproche pas, non, ne me le reproche pas.