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Song reviews of bands we don't like |
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moshkito 
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16140 |
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 Posted: July 14 2016 at 09:56 |
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Gosh ... I have so many languages in my collection, I shudder to think how many! NP: Alan Stivell
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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hellogoodbye
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VIP member Joined: August 29 2011 Location: Troy Status: Offline Points: 7251 |
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Posted: July 14 2016 at 15:47 |
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I'm just saying that idiot lyrics can spoil a nice melody. I gave up many French prog for that reason, most to tell the truth.
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Mascodagama
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 5111 |
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Posted: July 15 2016 at 10:40 |
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Indeed, I actually have a bit of a preference bands who sing in languages I don't understand for just this reason. It's also why I have to pretend to myself that I don't understand English when I listen to Yes  |
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16140 |
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Posted: July 15 2016 at 13:46 |
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It's kind of what I do when listening to something that different. In the end, "music" is a communication form that is the oldest language in the world, but we have gotten stuck on the semantics, instead of listening and hearing the music itself. I know this sounds weird, but this is probably something that came out of the "greek chorus", which I'm willing to bet was some kind of bad translation of the original shows, that used to masks to tell us someone was sad, and the chorus would not be needed to tell us why! However, from my experience, the main reason why some folks don't like other musics? They do not close their eyes and listen to the music, and try to interpret it in their own language instead ... and of course, that is not hard, but is not something that we are taught during our growing up, thus appreciation of things like "music", become an intellectual idea that we have to ask our friends about, instead of us "knowing" it for ourselves. This is one of the toughest and most difficult challenges for a reviewer ... listening to Banco, or PFM and comparing it to ELP, means you are not listening. They were far more inspired by their own history of music, and the development of rock music, to copy one band! But we still, at times, see reviews, that can only do this, and it's not fair. Italy has a history of music that is millennia long. Rock music is just a bittie part in it. To think it is better, or a copy of something else, means, in general, that one has not heard the previous Italian music! You, yourself, would not like it, if you were from the South Pole and created some music because you had a computer and an organ VST, and now everyone says that you copied the BlahBlah band! And you never heard them before, or have any idea who they were! Or from where, for that matter! But you thought it was cool to pound a keyboard! Reviewing is about appreciating the music. Putting it down does no one any good. The commercial top ten thing, constantly putting down something and supporting their own bands, is out of hand, and we need to get control over it ourselves. It starts with us. Or as I like to say "YOU".
Edited by moshkito - July 21 2016 at 13:10 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Tarkus58
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Joined: July 26 2016 Location: Capel le Ferne Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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Posted: July 27 2016 at 02:21 |
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Anything by Rush, how on earth these are considered prog and not just AOR I'll never understand, it's so simplistic, 'prog' by numbers just like Kansas etc.
I can't review it although I was bought the three sector boxes for Christmas about three years ago, because quite frankly it's unlistenable! |
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Online Points: 14102 |
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Posted: July 27 2016 at 06:51 |
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A first posting like this is gonna make you lots of friends...
 Anyway welcome from somebody who is rather lukewarm on Rush! |
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16140 |
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Posted: July 27 2016 at 09:28 |
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Again, this is, for me, the issue. I do not dislike RUSH, however, I find no need to review their work. My main questions are, why review something you don't like, or care for, when there is so much material out there that you want to review? That, in its own right, does not mean I don't like RUSH, or KANSAS or many of the bands that in some ways, might be considered less important in the larger scheme of things, but their amount of work is very good, and they deserve some credit along the way for their ability. It's the same for others, like Spock's Beard, Transatlantic, and bands that can easily be considered half way there, but in the end, their work deserves some attention, but writing a review that says ... they sound like ELP, or Genesis, and have a terrible lead singer, is not really a review ... it's just a personal opinion, and that is not going to help the furthering of the "progressive music" that you and I love so much. A lot of folks also thought PG/Chappo/Cocker and many others had horrible voices, too! Thus, even though I have many of those albums, reviewing them is just not there for me tat this time. Another example, for me, is the Henry Cow/Slapp Happy grouping. While there are a couple of fine things in there, that are really different, too much of it is like hearing so many graduate students in college work on their own music, and dissonance and odd mixes. I simply do not find that as interesting, and challenging, as I would something like TFTO ... on a compositional scale. BUT, that's my preference. The ego centered music thing in grad school, was pathetic, boring, and horribly mis-guided, and I do not find the Henry Cow/Slapp Happy folks that far apart from them. But that's my perception, and it could be incorrect, and I accept that, but I have never read, or found, anything that could explain that stuff any better for my noodles! In some ways, it is sooooooo 20th century "anti-music", it's not funny! And then here come the comments about the French!
Edited by moshkito - July 27 2016 at 09:30 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Modrigue
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Joined: January 14 2007 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1125 |
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Posted: July 27 2016 at 09:48 |
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You totally have the right to dislike Rush, but do you find 2112, Cygnus X-1, La Villa Strangiato or YYZ simplistic music?
Edited by Modrigue - July 27 2016 at 10:21 |
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Online Points: 14102 |
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Posted: July 27 2016 at 10:09 |
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moshkito: Quite generally on negative reviews, somewhat off topic in this thread but anyway...
I tend to read reviews before I make decisions whether to buy something, to watch a film, or even to put more than 2 minutes into listening to something in order to see whether it could develop into something I like. Life is just to short to listen to everything properly. As a reader of reviews, I see that people rather tend to write positive reviews (which is quite natural a) for the reasons you mention and b) because people know the stuff they like just better, so they have more competence to write a review), which is OK to some extent, but I'm very keen to find some critical voices, because looking at the reasons why some people criticise some stuff gives me a clearer idea of whether I might like it or not. In any case, positive or negative, of course, what is important about a review is some detail, not just whether it's good or bad, but still, in a world with a clear majority of positive reviews, a (well written) negative review gives me better information on average. And then also, if I already know something, I am interested in what other people make of it, positive or negative, and the negative stuff is usually just as entertaining and enlightening as the positive stuff. So keep on writing critical reviews guys! |
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Pastmaster
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Joined: January 23 2015 Location: Spiderwood Farm Status: Offline Points: 1774 |
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Posted: July 27 2016 at 10:29 |
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Yeah, there's nothing wrong with disliking any band, but are we listening to the same band? Rush is a far cry from Kansas and simplicity.
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Magnum Vaeltaja
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 01 2015 Location: Out East Status: Offline Points: 6777 |
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Posted: July 27 2016 at 13:20 |
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These four songs are outliers of sorts, but they aren't harmonically complex in the slightest (except maybe the guitar solo in YYZ). These tracks are mostly just power chords and pentatonic licks, with the only real complexity being in the rhythmic changes/time signatures. And that's only 4 songs out of how large of a musical catalog? Rush is admirable as a hard rock band but I don't think they're really as "proggy" as most make them out to be.
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when i was a kid a doller was worth ten dollers - now a doller couldnt even buy you fifty cents
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Terrapin Station
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Joined: July 23 2016 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 383 |
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Posted: July 28 2016 at 05:47 |
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Also, not that I think there's anything wrong with AOR, and I like Rush from Signals on at least as much as I like earlier Rush. Also also, I don't define prog based on complexity in any manner. In a nutshell, I define it simply by (a) musicians wanting to break away from traditional pop song structures, especially if they're approaching that in at all of an experimental, "let's try this and see what happens" way (although I'd say that more or less mimicking the results of others who did this counts, too), and typically (b) melding elements of other genres with pop-rock. |
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Terrapin Station
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Joined: July 23 2016 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 383 |
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Posted: July 28 2016 at 05:52 |
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Terrapin Station
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Joined: July 23 2016 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 383 |
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Posted: July 28 2016 at 06:00 |
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Re the topic of the thread, by the way, I can typically find some value in any music, especially anything professionally released/distributed. There certainly isn't any music I hate, and I don't even really dislike anything. There are things I'm kind of indifferent towards, but I like/listen to a bit of just about every genre (there are probably some very specific/new subgenres I'm missing, but just because I'm not aware of them). So I'm not sure what I'd review for this.
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16140 |
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Posted: July 28 2016 at 08:03 |
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Hi, This is where a review BECOMES a review. You make it sound like that I can not write a review of a FELLINI film, or a BERGMAN film, and that it all has to be "positive", and not "critical". CRITICAL, is not positive or negative, and it is an observatory comment. For example, I can tell you that Gaspar Noe's camera style is incredibly confusing, and disturbing, and makes for a dizzy experience, because it is too much to see, and in many ways so close to your own experience, if you are fainting, or at any time "lost it", and fell. But that is not necessarily a bad comment, specially if it is used to an amazing effect, within the film, which makes you go ... is it good or is it bad? ... and you can not make that distinction, because the whole thing is so "experimental" as to throw your idea about "movies" out the door in 20 seconds, and that is a fantasy (just like rock music!) that you and I are not very good at letting go. I can, easily write a review about any of those bands, and the only time I have turned down a review, was for a bunch of material that came from WAYSIDE, and it all sounded like to me, like 2nd rate Zappa jazz wannabee's, and I simply could not get a good feel for it. Did not in any way, think that any of those folks were not good, they were quite good, but just not something I could wrap my words around to make them be worth their ability. This is important, sometimes, in understanding film reviews. The same director is not the same from film to film, except in Hollywood and Bollywood and Anime, and unfortunately, you might not be totally familiar with "world cinema", since your view of music suggests that you can only find critical reviews in someone's negative comments. There is nothing positive or negative about a "critical" review, as it is, for the most part, an evaluation of my own understanding, and has nothing less to do with the artist, than my reaction to it. Again, there is very little music that I dislike anywhere ... although I like to make fun of Metallica and the like, but in general, it's all good. I just do not feel the need to burden you with thoughts that are not a good description, or evaluation of the work itself. My personal ideas are one thing ... but they are not a "review", in any way, shape or form ... and this is the difference between a "review" and for the most part the rest ... "crap". |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Jeffro
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Joined: March 29 2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 2029 |
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Posted: July 28 2016 at 08:31 |
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I'm curious what you do and do not consider to be "prog" because there is a wide variety of music out there (Not simply Rush only) that is so varied and still considered to be prog. I'm certain I don't need to tell you that. Is Rush Prog like Gentle Giant is prog? Hell no, but that fact doesn't mean that Rush isn't prog (at least at some points in their career)
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Pastmaster
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Joined: January 23 2015 Location: Spiderwood Farm Status: Offline Points: 1774 |
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Posted: July 28 2016 at 22:43 |
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You don't have to be complex to be progressive. As long as one has a new idea, or takes two old ideas and blends them in unique ways, that fits the definition of progressive imo.
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16140 |
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Posted: July 29 2016 at 09:11 |
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And sometimes, the simplest part ... is what we remember and make that whole piece the progressive icon that we like! Aren't we weird, or what?
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Logan
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Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: @ wicker man Status: Offline Points: 32583 |
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Posted: March 23 2018 at 11:38 |
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Anyone else want to give this a try? The idea is not about saying bad things about music, the idea is that we may gain new appreciation of music if we keep an open mind, and maybe are recommended the right music by an artist/band so our opinion of the artist becomes more positive (one may dislike what one's heard of a band but be exposed to something that we can appreciate). If it doesn't work for us, that's fine too as to each his or her own tastes.
Again: - Mention a band,or several, you have negative opinions of from a Prog category you have likes in (it works better if the band has a fairly large and varied discography and you have not listened to some albums by the band) - Someone post a track (embed or hyperlink, url) from the band someone said they disliked - Listen to it, then review or post impressions of the track that was posted in response to you. If you're posting a track in response, please do try to mention your own dislikes. And do try to take the person's tastes into account when choosing a track if possible. Prog is like a box of chocolates, you never quite know what you're going to get unless you know it all. It's fine not liking something, but at least I would hope that someone could find some merits in the work (this does work best if in your song mini-review you try to be positive and constructive). |
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Just a fanboy passin' through.
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HolyMoly
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Retired Admin Joined: April 01 2009 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 26133 |
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Posted: March 24 2018 at 21:52 |
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Maybe.... but only if Pedro is sleeping
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My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
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hellogoodbye wrote: