Shooting in Munich, Germany

even if the Ansbach assailant is Syrian: we still know nothing of the background. and the Munich assailant had a German parent. I think social conditions have a lot more to do with becoming a terrorist than ethnicity.

I deal with people from other countries and of other ethnic backgrounds almost daily, many of them benig refugees. Friede and I do voluntary work in a neighborhood center, and many of the people who come there are of the Islamic faith. all of them are very nice people

The Munich one was a different sort of case.

Of course most are nice. But when you have several attacks in a week from migrants with a certain religious faith in a week and that follows closely on the heels of a serious attack on a neighboring country which has experienced several horrific attacks, and your country has taken on a massive number of refugees/migrants from certain parts of the world which have bred many terrorists and terrorist sympathizers, it's understandable that people might be worried. I do think more people should read the Quran and Hadith to get to know the faith better.

Social conditions may well be the most important factor, but the social conditions is certain countries may have got people used to violence and very angry. It's hard to create the right social conditions for any culture and peoples you bring in when you bring in so, so many so, so quickly. France and Belgium never seemed to manage well with certain groups, even over generations. The West should fear militant Islamism as do many moderate Moslems and other people's in predominantly Moslem nations. Sharia, for instance, is really at odds with Western law, but a considerable number want to see it imposed. There is a problem when certain cultures are at odds with the cultures they live in.

Religious-driven extremism is very scary as it is so irrational and people believe that they will be rewarded for what we could consider abhorrent behavior. Since Charlie Hebdo in particular, I've become less tolerant of intolerant peoples.

Helping the refugees is great and just, but a state's primary responsibility is the safety and welfare of its own citizens first.

I think the Ansbach attacker had been treated for mental illness, not that that's an excuse for doing what he did, but may explain it more so than straight forward Islamic extremist ideology. We don't know the full background of this individual, and we're getting to the point now where terrorist attacks are so frequent across Europe that the media is going to have to start putting controls on how they report such events because of the effect it will have on the support of far right groups and a bloody and uncontrollable backlash.

If things keep going this way we will be in a situation where everyone will have to go through scanners or pat downs before going into a shopping mall. No one will want to go to music festivals out of fear. If we get to that point then the war is over, and will have been won, but not by Europe or the US.

Blacksword wrote: I think the Ansbach attacker had been treated for mental illness, not that that's an excuse for doing what he did, but may explain it more so than straight forward Islamic extremist ideology. We don't know the full background of this individual, and we're getting to the point now where terrorist attacks are so frequent across Europe that the media is going to have to start putting controls on how they report such events because of the effect it will have on the support of far right groups and a bloody and uncontrollable backlash. If things keep going this way we will be in a situation where everyone will have to go through scanners or pat downs before going into a shopping mall. No one will want to go to music festivals out of fear. If we get to that point then the war is over, and will have been won, but not by Europe or the US.

Isn't all violent fanaticism mental illness?

npjnpj wrote: This is a nice sentiment, and I wish it were true. I agree that social conditions seem to play a vital part, but that's all that I'm in agreement with in your statement. The way I see it, it is not a matter of ethnic background or nationality, this seems to be entirely religious-driven. It transcends countries, borders and ethnic groups. It's almost ethereal. I can't even remember when or if I last heard of a Christian, Hindu, or Buddhist rampage.

Well, in Europe, Buddhists and Hindus are not exactly wide audiences and I can't say they look very violent.
But the Muslim minority in Burma (the Rohingyas), sometimes described as the most persecuted minority in the world, is suffering an intense campaign of violence led by... a Buddhist monk...
Also, the violences between Muslims and Hindus in India are quite intense and I'm not sure it's all the fault of the Muslims...

npjnpj wrote: Then I suppose we can agree on the assumption that religion in general seems to lie at the root of the problem. So now what?

Well, nothing. Lunch time, I guess?

SteveG wrote: Blacksword wrote: I think the Ansbach attacker had been treated for mental illness, not that that's an excuse for doing what he did, but may explain it more so than straight forward Islamic extremist ideology. We don't know the full background of this individual, and we're getting to the point now where terrorist attacks are so frequent across Europe that the media is going to have to start putting controls on how they report such events because of the effect it will have on the support of far right groups and a bloody and uncontrollable backlash. If things keep going this way we will be in a situation where everyone will have to go through scanners or pat downs before going into a shopping mall. No one will want to go to music festivals out of fear. If we get to that point then the war is over, and will have been won, but not by Europe or the US. Isn't all violent fanaticism mental illness?

Isn't all religious faith, fanatical or otherwise a form of mental illness?



Edited by Blacksword - July 25 2016 at 05:23

Education and integration would be the main points, I would have thought, but there are two problems with this.
Education takes time, not to mention the conflicts concerning the ethnic backgrounds this would evoke. Education is not regarded as a desirable trait; hard work and manual labour is. That is my conclusion from numerous conversations I've held.
Integration, though, is an even more difficult point.
As we are focusing on Germany at the moment: foreign groups of varying backgrounds arrived in Germany during the middle sixties to help with the work force required at the time. Many went back after several years, but many stayed. With fault lying on both sides, it has to be concluded that large-scale integration has ..... not ..... worked! Even after more than 50 years. This can be witnessed in every German city. The ethnic and religious differences seem just too pronounced.
The refugees who have now entered the country come from regions and backgrounds that are even further removed from western culture than the work forces of the 60s were.
I'm at a complete loss now because if, as I surmise, education and integration would be the factors most likely to help, they are met with resistance on both sides.
But someone had better do something, because otherwise we'll never be safe again.

npjnpj wrote: Then I suppose we can agree on the assumption that religion in general seems to lie at the root of the problem. So now what?

I do not agree with that.

Faith in any doctrine encouraging violence whatsoever, whether religious or not, is an excellent vehicle to justify acts of violence. As for religious books, peace-seekers will find verses backing their views, and  warmongers will find motivation in other verses.